Is the OBL raid a blessing for exposing lapses in Pakistani defence system?

[muse]

Sometimes 'David' needs to lay low & observe in order for 'Goliath' to rove around!

fair enough - just would have thought that David might have thought of that before he decided Goliath can be engaged - don't you think?

 

[XYON]

fair enough - just would have thought that David might have thought of that before he decided Goliath can be engaged - don't you think?

As the saying goes in Golf, someday you play Golf other days GOLF PLAYS YOU!! Let us hope that 'David' is now a tad 'wiser' after this episode!

 

[MastanKhan]

Personally speaking, I think that it was a blessing that Pakistan defense establishment was not aware of the scenario until the US raid in Abbotabad was completed. Otherwise, our F-16's would have chased the intruding helicopters to shoot them down & the fleet of 'over-watch' USAF F-22 Raptors circling across the Afghan border would have flown in the Pakistan border to save their retreating comrades in the Silent Hawks!!! It would have been one hell of a diplomatic and international mess otherwise if either a PAF or a USAF aircraft would have shot down in this operation.

Secondly, Obama got Osama and we got the bits and pieces from the most advanced helicopter with stealth capabilities. When the Serbians shot down the USAF F-117A fighter aircraft over Yugoslavia, the carcass of the same was sold to China. China later on built a completely reversed engineered model of the F-117A to R&D on! China has developed the WZ-19 and Z-10 variants of attack helicopters that could indeed benefit from the blown up yet completely intact pieces of the Silent Hawk in Abbotabad.

So in hind sight, IGNORANCE WAS INDEED A BLISS for Pakistan in this matter!

Sir,

I believe that you had not read my other posts---so I would repeat it here---and please spread it around your family and friends as a favour----.

You see---the F 16 radar cannot lock onto american equipment----and neither would our american missiles lock onto american equipment----yes---you understood it correctly------the americans have the soucre codes for their own missiles and radars----.

IT would be a fool trying to fool another fool by launching american planes with american radars and american missiles in an atmosphere which is laid heavy with american suveillance and electronic jamming planes in the air----.

So---please Mister General Qamar Suleiman--whatsoever your name is---and General Kiyani----please---why do you take yoru stupidity and ignorance to a new pleateau.

 

[XYON]

Sir,

I believe that you had not read my other posts---so I would repeat it here---and please spread it around your family and friends as a favour----.

You see---the F 16 radar cannot lock onto american equipment----and neither would our american missiles lock onto american equipment----yes---you understood it correctly------the americans have the soucre codes for their own missiles and radars----.

IT would be a fool trying to fool another fool by launching american planes with american radars and american missiles in an atmosphere which is laid heavy with american suveillance and electronic jamming planes in the air----.

So---please Mister General Qamar Suleiman--whatsoever your name is---and General Kiyani----please---why do you take yoru stupidity and ignorance to a new pleateau.

Right! Let us replace the word 'F-16' with "Mirages' or 'JF-17' or 'Surface-Air-Missile' or 'Flying DICK' etc etc for all I care! Try to get the 'point' then being idiotically critical unnecessarily! Now stop puffing that 'Charas' and try getting back to normality Junior!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Right! Let us replace the word 'F-16' with "Mirages' or 'JF-17' or 'Surface-Air-Missile' or 'Flying DICK' etc etc for all I care! Try to get the 'point' then being idiotically critical unnecessarily! Now stop puffing that 'Charas' and try getting back to normality Junior!!

Xyon,

What a wonderful post at a time like this---indeed---the country needs warriors and thinkers like you---yes with your comments and thinking---indeed make the country proud----hail the great warrior of islam and pakistan---XYON-----.

 

[iPhone]

Xyon,

What a wonderful post at a time like this---indeed---the country needs warriors and thinkers like you---yes with your comments and thinking---indeed make the country proud----hail the great warrior of islam and pakistan---XYON-----.

Though his reply was unreasonably harsh but his original comment did have a point that you missed. No one is questioning the superior US tech but let's say paf had intervened during, before or after the opp. And jets were airborne, jfs, f16, mirages etc the missile system, regardless of the fact they were able to get a lock on or not they would've been flying close to American aircrafts.

Already under pressure of launching the operation or having it launched with obl body in the back, this certainly wouldn't be a friendly and normal situation for them.

 

[muse]

let's say paf had intervened during, before or after the opp.

See, this is what so many people have pointed to and what some refuse to understand -- What is the purpose of the Pakistan armed forces?? Whom are they there to serve??

If they are around only to serve themselves, Pakistan does not need them - obviously, right?

And if they cannot protect Pakistan, then Pakistan does not need them, right??

So, really the point that should focus the thinking of Pakistanis is whether after all this sacrifice and suffering, the armed forces of Pakistan cannot protect her, then why should the citizens of Pakistan make such huge sacrifices to build and maintain these forces??

The usual suspects (Islamists pretending to be Pakistani nationalists) will argue that these weapons are meant for India -- but of course have no answer when it is pointed out that it's not the Indian busting Pakistan borders and playing assassination games.

Any way you look at this, saying the Pakistani armed forces are complicit or incompetent or uncaring or asleep, the armed forces take a hammering and well deserved - after so much sacrifice, what do we have? "Discretion the better part of valor" -- heck, you can do that for a whole lot less investment and sacrifice, right??

 

[KS]

All those harking that the Heli will land up in China, do you think that the US planners would not have thought about this simple thing that net warriors can think of ?

Babur is more advanced then tomahawk and has more range........ and china wasnt involved ..

Do u see such a CM in their inventory...NO

You seriously need to learn about the Tomahawk,

The range of a Tomahawk is about 2500 km whereas that of Babur is hardly 700 km.

And China does have Cruise missiles, better ones, than Pakistan.

Google CJ 10, DJ 10 etc.

 

[Developereo]

No need to argue amongst us. We are all saying the same thing that engaging the Americans was never an option -- whether for technical or pragmatic reasons. If we had engaged the Americans, our military would have been destroyed back to the stone age, and then India would conduct such operations in broad daylight.

As for the stealth bonanza, it is possible that the heli is using the same or better technology (materials, paint) as F-22. That is an invaluable find and the Chinese will make the most of it. (Before the Indians jump in, we mention China because Pakistan doesn't have the technical infrastructure to understand, let alone reverse engineer, the latest stealth technologies.)

 

[khurasaan1]

Yes Alhamdolillah everything going is a blessing from Allah SBWT ...the TOPI DRAMA of OBL has ended...now the CIA/Mosaad/MI6 are gonna start new script for their interests to fool the world...through media....Yes! the ALQAIDA (is a dept. of CIA) is on full swing wrking very good....making excuse for US to capture any land they want and enter any country.....Yes! their movie hit the BOX office....

 

[KS]

As for the stealth bonanza, it is possible that the heli is using the same or better technology (materials, paint) as F-22. That is an invaluable find and the Chinese will make the most of it. (Before the Indians jump in, we mention China because Pakistan doesn't have the technical infrastructure to understand, let alone reverse engineer, the latest stealth technologies.)

Repost ---

All those harking that the Heli will land up in China, do you think that the US planners would not have thought about this simple, painfully obvious scenario that net warriors in an anonymous forum can think of ?

Anyway each one to his own. If Pakistanis can indeed see anything positive out of this scenario, why stop.

 

[Developereo]

All those harking that the Heli will land up in China, do you think that the US planners would not have thought about this simple thing that net warriors can think of ?

I am sure all the electronic circuits were set to fry themselves, and whatever wasn't fried was blown up by the missile. However, parts of the fuselage remain, and that is a big part of stealth technology. The body angles, the material and the paint are all there for analysis.

 

[KS]

I am sure all the electronic circuits were set to fry themselves, and whatever wasn't fried was blown up by the missile. However, parts of the fuselage remain, and that is a big part of stealth technology. The body angles, the material and the paint are all there for analysis.

And do you HONESTLY think they would not have taken possession of the wreckage if they think that all parts have not been destroyed properly or not destroyed enough to reverse engineer especially given the amount of influence they wield on the GoP and their paranoia about the Chinese ?

US may be incompetent in some areas - but not THIS incompetent.

 

[Developereo]

And do you HONESTLY think they would not have taken possession of the wreckage if they think that all parts have not been destroyed properly or not destroyed enough to reverse engineer especially given the amount of influence they wield on the GoP and their paranoia about the Chinese ?

US may be incompetent in some areas - but not THIS incompetent.

There were media reports that children were walking off with pieces of the wreckage as souvenir. The Pakistani authorities did not cordon off the area for several days and curious 'tourists' were swarming the place. In this case, our authorities' incompetence seems to have had a silver lining.

There is absolutely no doubt that parts of the wreckage are now sitting in some high tech lab in China.

 

[53fd]

And do you HONESTLY think they would not have taken possession of the wreckage if they think that all parts have not been destroyed properly or not destroyed enough to reverse engineer especially given the amount of influence they wield on the GoP and their paranoia about the Chinese ?

US may be incompetent in some areas - but not THIS incompetent.

When the helicopter crashed, it's rear tail broke off during collision with the perimeter wall, & it broke split the rear from the rest of the body. While the body fell inside the perimeter of the bin Laden compound, the tail that split fell OUTSIDE the perimeter walls. As the walls were very high, they couldn't destroy the rear tail of the helicopter. The wiring/circuitry inside the rear tail was also all intact.