Is Pakistani principally a race or ideology?

[Pakhtoon yum]

Himachal Pradesh shows the effect of the influence of both Tibet and Punjab. Culturally as well as in ethnicity of the population. The hill tribes and the people in the northern parts are closer to Tibetans while the people of the plains are closer to Punjabis. I will try and find a percentage split of Himachal to give you a sense of the punjabi population there.

You have been factoring only geographic proximity as a source of showing ethno-cultural overlap. While it is one of the largest determinants of population spread, immigration/emigration based on zones of influence should also be factored in. Hypothesis is this - if there is a centre of power favourable to a particular demogrpahic identity, it will swell up with people from that identity replacing any other group in that area. That's the reason why Hyderabad (Indian) has a very different ethnicity mix than the other south indian states for example.


I did not mean to bring political implications of the mughal rule into the discussion, my last post was not worded properly.


Are you sure about that? Could you provide some proof for the dropping of the Rajput rule hypothesis? Aren't the Janjhuas and Kambojas on your side as well? (Bhatis/Bhuttos, etc.?)

Diluted in about 300 years? I am not sure, I am quoting from memory, will believe you unless I find a better source to validate what I had posted earlier.


How can you reconcile the concept of Pakistan with any of the stuff in your post? The language that was developed in the region that is modern Pakistan has no written record and is dead like it's Iranian cousins. The only known Sanskrit that is used and read around the world was developed in the Gangetic plains.
Let's assume that Sanskrit was created in Pakistan, do you then claim hindu/vedic ancestry? How can you be selective to only adopt the language the practitioners of dharmic religions used while disregarding everything else (including your genetic and cultural linkage to them and with the people from north west India)?


I am not going to get involved in name calling. I had quoted clearly what I had commented on, yet you for some reason thought I was not clear in my post. Don't know what got you riled up.

Explain the central Asian looking pakistani northerners and the European looking westerners.

 

[zain41]

Pakistan is not a race ..it’s multi ethnic..most people in the west come from Europe etc and they have assumed their identities American/Canadian same will happen to desis who have moved there...native languages will dissapear in those families down the line unless honest effort is made and once language is removed the culture of that ethnicity will also go... eventually

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Himachal Pradesh shows the effect of the influence of both Tibet and Punjab. Culturally as well as in ethnicity of the population. The hill tribes and the people in the northern parts are closer to Tibetans while the people of the plains are closer to Punjabis. I will try and find a percentage split of Himachal to give you a sense of the punjabi population there.

You have been factoring only geographic proximity as a source of showing ethno-cultural overlap. While it is one of the largest determinants of population spread, immigration/emigration based on zones of influence should also be factored in. Hypothesis is this - if there is a centre of power favourable to a particular demogrpahic identity, it will swell up with people from that identity replacing any other group in that area. That's the reason why Hyderabad (Indian) has a very different ethnicity mix than the other south indian states for example.


I did not mean to bring political implications of the mughal rule into the discussion, my last post was not worded properly.


Are you sure about that? Could you provide some proof for the dropping of the Rajput rule hypothesis? Aren't the Janjhuas and Kambojas on your side as well? (Bhatis/Bhuttos, etc.?)

Diluted in about 300 years? I am not sure, I am quoting from memory, will believe you unless I find a better source to validate what I had posted earlier.


How can you reconcile the concept of Pakistan with any of the stuff in your post? The language that was developed in the region that is modern Pakistan has no written record and is dead like it's Iranian cousins. The only known Sanskrit that is used and read around the world was developed in the Gangetic plains.
Let's assume that Sanskrit was created in Pakistan, do you then claim hindu/vedic ancestry? How can you be selective to only adopt the language the practitioners of dharmic religions used while disregarding everything else (including your genetic and cultural linkage to them and with the people from north west India)?


I am not going to get involved in name calling. I had quoted clearly what I had commented on, yet you for some reason thought I was not clear in my post. Don't know what got you riled up.

Are you mad? Just because no one speaks it anymore doesnt mean they didnt create it. The Chinese invented the fork too but went on to use sticks to eat. There are many languages that were created in Pakistan and are found in ruins but people sont speak them anymore, doesnt mean they were invented anymore.

The use of Latin, it died off where it was invented but it was used by other Europeans later on. Doesnt mean it theirs

 

[Yankee-stani]

Pretty much unanimous that our members see Pakistan as an ideology before being a race/ethnicity.

Interesting results on PDF.

Ridiculous result have our people not learn from our past have we not learned why Jinnah and Iqbal reason why Pakistan was created nope we are a ignorant nation we dont wanna learn from the past no wonder we have a identity crisis among our diaspora anyone that claims Pakistan is a project is also demented as the federation is filled with the main 5 main ethnic groups Punjabis,Sindhis,Pukhtoons,Balochis,and Kashmiris its one thing compared to Secularists Islam has a role in our society and nation however we are nation state unlike Israel which is A Jewish state that accepts Jews from all over the world and give them citizenship do we do the same with other Muslims in Pakistan nope @Desert Fox

 

[zain41]

Ridiculous result have our people not learn from our past have we not learned why Jinnah and Iqbal reason why Pakistan was created nope we are a ignorant nation we dont wanna learn from the past no wonder we have a identity crisis among our diaspora anyone that claims Pakistan is a project is also demented as the federation is filled with the main 5 main ethnic groups Punjabis,Sindhis,Pukhtoons,Balochis,and Kashmiris its one thing compared to Secularists Islam has a role in our society and nation however we are nation state unlike Israel which is A Jewish state that accepts Jews from all over the world and give them citizenship do we do the same with other Muslims in Pakistan nope @Desert Fox

race cannot be changed..it is what it is

 

[Gangetic]

A distinct genetic lineage is slowly emerging.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Ridiculous result have our people not learn from our past have we not learned why Jinnah and Iqbal reason why Pakistan was created nope we are a ignorant nation we dont wanna learn from the past no wonder we have a identity crisis among our diaspora anyone that claims Pakistan is a project is also demented as the federation is filled with the main 5 main ethnic groups Punjabis,Sindhis,Pukhtoons,Balochis,and Kashmiris its one thing compared to Secularists Islam has a role in our society and nation however we are nation state unlike Israel which is A Jewish state that accepts Jews from all over the world and give them citizenship do we do the same with other Muslims in Pakistan nope @Desert Fox

Quaid e Azam was very adamant that Pakistan is a state founded on the principles of Islam and with the purpose to bring a model for the world’s Muslims to emulate to ride us of our crippling depression and apathy.

Allama Iqbal saw in Pakistan in physical form what he hoped to achieve through his poetry, which was the reinvigoration of Islam and the awoken believer, whom he referred to as Mard e Momin, through realization of self, Israr e Khudi.

He saw in the form of the Eagle (Shaheen) the proud, stern, determined nature of a true believer, who aspires towards lofty goals and never cowers in front of the enemy.

We are not simply a race, but an Islamic Ghazi sacred state formed on the periphery of the Muslim world with a mission given to us by our ancestors, to establish fair/just Muslim rule and spread Islam to the furthest reaches possible.

This is why our idea of Ghazwa e Hind and Khorasaan is so central to many Pakistani nationalists.

Our wars are called Ghazwas as they have been blessed by Prophet Muhammad saws and our men are Ghazis as they live for the holy cause.

Many more nations and people will join our cause. It is favorable towards the health of an ideology when it gains converts and expands beyond its primary borders.

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistan is the true successor state of Indus valley civilization

 

[Kharral]

Neither I am afraid...
Vaguely Islamic at best

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Results currently.

Is Pakistani a race or ideology?

1. Race/Ethnicity 7 vote(s) 14.6%
2. Ideology 41 vote(s) 85.4%

 

[jetray]

The hidden benefit though is watching the identity complex wars happen here stemming from this.

when masses chant Pakistan ka matlab kia, you know there is a problem.

 

[zain41]

when masses chant Pakistan ka matlab kia, you know there is a problem.

not a problem....a privilege

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Not a Pakistani, and not participating in this discussion, but...

A thread on Pakistani identity meant for Pakistanis to discuss the foundations of their state and its future has no place for this kind of discussion.

Please begin your own thread and discuss it there.

 

[jetray]

Not a Pakistani, and not participating in this discussion, but wanted to point out that the quoted part of your post shows how desperate you guys have become in removing any trace of your association with your heritage.
'Desi' is by no means a Pakistani term, its origin is sanskrit and Indians were the first south asians to claim this term (right around the time the infamous 'dot busters' and other white hate groups had started attacking the 'Patels' in New Jersey in the 1950s and 60s). Please don't claim sanskrit as yours as well.

yup it comes from sanskrit , desh/swadesh/videsh/pardesh
citizen/living in desh ==> desi
As usual ppl have started their circus of claiming everything as their own but dont want to hear the truth.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

not a problem....a privilege

The real problem for Indians is when Kashmiris begin chanting this slogan.

Now that is ironic.

Let’s try to stay on topic.