Is India tearing itself apart?

[BanglaBhoot]

I think the question is rightly posed. Is India a failed state? How much control does it exert over its territory and does it have the complete loyalty of its people. Many of its people want to become separate but are forced into remaining within the union. India cannot be described as an effective state. It does not offer the majority of its population what its wants and cannot provide it.

 

[doobie86]

The weakest part of India is its chicken neck. Even in a limited war with India if Bangladesh can disrupt communications with India's North East then your countries in a sh*t load of trouble. There are 140 Muslims in Bangladesh how long do you think you can keep this population subdued during a war. Hell America cannot keep Afghanistan with its 20 million people quite even with superior fire power. What the world does not need is an arrogant and expansionist India. A simple equation.

SA - I = P

SA stands for South Asia. I for India and P is peace.

SA + C = Pr

C here stands for China and Pr means prosperity. India does not offer SA prosperity but conflict and instability.

As for the BSF soldiers that intruded into Bangladesh they were not killed in custody. They were killed in a straight fight. I do agree that BDR have been killed but always at a distance and unprovoked. In other words, the Indians behaved like cowards shooting their victims in the backs.

lol munshi, that's a pretty big if, you think Bangladesh would dare attack India and sever the northeast? let me tell you something, if you could you would. Why wouldn't you because you're a peaceful nation? emotions don't work in politics fool, its all logic. Fact is Bangladesh is weak, militarily, economically and even strategically. India surrounds you and there's nothing you can do to change that, the north east is going no where..you can hope your new master (china) will try and annex it, but you know it's not going to happen, not in the near future, and with the military buildup in India (not to mention the US warming up to us) probably never. If Bangladesh ever tried something like that and succeeded meaning India was in real danger of losing the North East, what makes you think you won't be nuked into submission? they can always use low yield weapons so the radiation doesn't spread too far (or suffer only a minimal amount..whatever works)

America is having trouble in Afghanistan because its OCCUPYING it, regime change and all. You think India will try something like that? 140 million people? who gives a sh*t? India will just cut you off from the planet and watch you die, and then what, shout slogans? throw stones? use the military (oh no!!) India has more than enough ammunition for any mob you can throw, no one wants your country, no ones going to bother with an occupation, only imposed starvation. Nepal man Nepal read up on it, its not like it hasn't been done before.

China with peace and prosperity? you know the only reason they bother with you lot is to keep us in check. If we weren't around, they wouldn't bother and well you'd all probably be dead given the rate at which you were massacred, so much for your how will you keep so many people subdued. Pakistan was doing a pretty good job till we showed up.

Ali.009--

You're calling India a failed state? India has insurgencies? You know you're fighting the F*cking taliban right? because of America and they're attacking you too. They have stabbed you in the back by betraying you and siding with India and yet you fight for them. Your country is bankrupt, Baluchistan is burning, FATA is about to become its own country, you have a suicide bomb go off every week, investors and running away, your president is out begging for cash,India is all over Afghanistan what else do you want me to say?

are you sure about India being a failed state? by that definition Pakistan isn't even a country. I have many reasons for respecting Pakistan, even though they are India's adversaries, but when you say retarded things like you did, you cannot expect a better reply.

 

[zenith_suv]

Thats rubbish really - Pick up any country in the world (including USA) , then make a huge long list of how it has failed and in what areas it is backward.

Eg. - Racial attitude towards many blacks
Traditional drawbacks of capitalism
Greedy and debt ridden masses
State of growing anarchy in Public schools
Dependency on more nations for Science and maths related fields
etc etc.

India is a developing country which has come on leaps and bounds in the past 10 years , of course it has many drawbacks but who can deny that India along with Brazil , Russia etc are mega powers of the future.

The fact that articles was posted by a Pakistani so lets take Pak as an example. Economy is downtrodden , terrorism is on it's peak and many more factors but I still argue that Pakistan in not a failed state.

One must have a sense of objectivity when looking at developing nations and their potential , Indian software , Industry etc is on the rise and Education , Poverty and employment which were the hallmark of India for 40 odd yrs. is now declining . It's signing Nuke deals and export orders across the globe. It's foolish to brand a nation a failed state by purely looking at flaws without any refrance point.

 

[anand]

Poorly compiled article with lots of misinformation and hatred.

1. Naxalites are active in 80 odd districts of India.Most of the places where they are active ae inaccessible. Common mass does not support naxals. ( By the way I too live in Naxal effected area and being a govt. sector employee I have conducted elections in these ares. There is no such thing called freedom struggle. But they are serious threat.)

Why do Naxals hate NGOs? A case study of Bihar Maoists in South Asiahttp://paulsoren.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/why-do-naxals-hate-ngos-a-case-study-of-bihar/

2. There is no freedom movement going on in Punjab. Khalistan movement is dead. ( Long live khalistan movement in Canada.)

3. There is no freedom movement going on in Tamilnadu. (Hardliner Tamil politicians do support Tamil movement in Sri Lanka.)

4. It is oftne misunderstood that some sort of freedom struggle is going on in SEVEN sister states of north east Indai. Who are these sister states, Arunachal, Mizorem, Assam, Tripura, Nagaland, Meghalaya and Manipur. There is insurgency in Arunachal . NSCM has signed ceasefire long back.Mizo's signed peace accord in 1987 with Govt. Most of the groups active in these states are fightng for supremacy of their ethnic community. There are Bodos, Maities, Nagas and many more.


Still I do agree that there are lots of problems ahead of us. But we did not fail when 60% of our population was under poverty, no food for our people and economic growth was 4-5%. We are far better than before and Inshallah we will over come the problems.

(since so many problems are summed up in one thread. A new thread can be started on Naxal problem in India, where we can have clear discussion and understanding of the problem.)

If any one believes that India is failed state state, i do not have any problem. What I believe is stated above.

GOD BLESS MY COUNTRY.

 

[doobie86]

Agnostic Muslim, I've read your posts many times before, if anyone here is level headed and rational its you. You said that the post is one way to look at things. I'm sure you can imagine all the arguments Indians would make to counter that claim, the part about the Dalits actually talks about how it was the first rejection of discrimination, not sure if you saw that.

But anyways, what would be really constructive is for you to show the people the other side of the argument, because no matter what an Indian says, someone as retarded as Munshi will never see the other side, maybe coming from you would add more credibility and thus prevent every thread from descending into the cyclical never ending tirade of the oldest stories in the book.

 

[RabzonKhan]

India improves on hunger list, but still worse than Nepal, Pak

14 Oct 2008

NEW DELHI: India appears to have made some progress in tackling the hunger and malnutrition issue, but the situation remains "alarming" in the countr
y on this front, according to the Global Hunger Index released on Tuesday.

India ranks 66th on the 2008 Global Hunger Index of 88 countries, a report released by the Washington-based International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI) said.

According to the 2008 Global Hunger Index (GHI), India's hunger rate fell to 23.7 points, from 32.5 points in 1990, while Congo showed highest hunger rate of 42.7 points at 88th place.

"The major threat of hunger is in 33 countries including India," the report said adding that rising food prices pose serious threats for malnourished people in these regions.

Other countries like Bangladesh scored 25.2 points (70th place), Pakistan 21.7 points (61th), Nepal 20.6 points (57th), Sri Lanka 15 points (39th), Thailand 9.9 points (23rd), China 7.1 points (15th) and Mauritius 5 points (1st), it said.

The report noted that countries that have scored between 20-30 points are in an alarming condition. The index ranked countries on a 100-point scale, with zero being the best score having no hunger and 100 being the worst.

"Hunger is closely tied to poverty and countries with high levels of hunger are overwhelmingly low or low-middle income countries," the report said, adding that hunger rate in South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa remain highest since 1990.

However, the global poverty rate has fallen by almost one fifth, to 15.2 points in 2008 GHI from 18.7 points in 1990 GHI, due to progress in children's nutrition, the report said.

Third year in a row, IFPRI has compiled the hunger index along with Germany-based Welthungerlife and Concern Worldwide.

 

[Smooth Operator]

India,China to become superpowers in two decades: key Obama aide

Mumbai, Sep 18: Emergence of India and China as economic power blocs will change the existing world order in the next two decades, a senior aide to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said here Thursday.

"They will have the power to change the existing world order and that would mark the end of an American era that began with the Cold War," said Dr. Philip Gordon, advisor to Obama on foreign policy.

He was addressing an interactive session on "The Geopolitics of Emerging Global Powers," organized by the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII), Western Region.

Gordon remarked that as economies of both India and China are charging ahead, both the countries are poised to play greater roles on the international stage in the coming years.

"My guess is that, as things stand today, in the next two decades, the United States will lose its sole superpower status and the countries which will share it with US would be India and China by virtue of their economic strength," said the academician, who is Senior Fellow for US Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution, Washington, D.C.

Gordon explained that the economic rise of a country naturally led to assumption of political power and India and China would be well-equipped to hold that position on the international scene within the next two decades.

In view of the above, it is important that America, as sole superpower today, engages India and China for resolving more and more international conflicts. On their part, both the future superpowers need to share the American concerns in this regard, he urged.

Dismissing the argument that, as sole superpower, America was now pushing its way at will and poking its nose everywhere, Gordon pointed out that though many of the steps taken by the Bush administration might seem so on the surface, the primary intention of the President George Bush was to bring stability in the strife-torn areas.

"As no other countries initiated the process for bringing about international stability, America ends up looking as if it is pushing its way at will," he said.

Making an indirect reference to the consequences of the Iraq war, the American foreign policy expert remarked that major wars are no longer acceptable, economically as well as politically, to resolve conflicts.

Replying to a question as to why America now seemed to be shifting its interest from Pakistan to India, Gordon said alliance between countries are forged not out of good feeling towards each other but out of national and international interests.

--- IANS

 

[PeaceForAll]

right.. and bangladesh and pakistan are very strong countries right now? gimme a break.. its one thing to point out a glaring problem.. its another to go find it. Mr. Munshi has done that very successfully.

btw, this is a list of failed to states or 'warning' of failure states:

Failed States List

2008
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2008" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2008" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

177 states were included in the list, of which 35 were classified as "alert", 92 as "warning", 35 as "moderate", 15 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. Change in rank from 2007 is shown in parentheses.[16]

1. Somalia (+2)
2. Sudan (-1)
3. Zimbabwe (+1)
4. Chad (+1)
5. Iraq (-3)
6. Democratic Republic of the Congo (+1)
7. Afghanistan (+1)
8. Côte d'Ivoire (-2)
9. Pakistan (+3)
10. Central African Republic (0)


11. Guinea (-2)
12. Bangladesh (+4)
12. Burma/Myanmar(+2)
14. Haiti (-3)
15. North Korea (-2)
16. Ethiopia (+2)
16. Uganda (-1)
18. Lebanon (+10)[17]
18. Nigeria (-1)
20. Sri Lanka (+5)[18]

[edit] 2007
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2007" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2007" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

177 states were included in the list, of which 32 were classified as "alert", 97 as "warning", 33 as "moderate", 15 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. For the entire ranking see List of countries by Failed States Index. Change in rank from 2006 is shown in parentheses.[19]

1. Sudan (0)
2. Iraq (+2)
3. Somalia (+4)
4. Zimbabwe (+1)
5. Chad (+1)
6. Côte d'Ivoire (-3)
7. Democratic Republic of the Congo (-5)
8. Afghanistan (+2)
9. Guinea (+2)
10. Central African Republic (+3)


11. Haiti (-3)
12. Pakistan (-3)
13. North Korea (+1)
14. Burma/Myanmar (+4)
15. Uganda (+6)[20]
16. Bangladesh (+3)
17. Nigeria (+5)[21]
18. Ethiopia (+8)[22]
19. Burundi (-4)
20. Timor-Leste (N/A)[23]

[edit] 2006
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2006" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2006" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

146 states were included in the 2006 list, of which 28 were classified as "alert", 78 as "warning", 27 as "moderate", 13 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. Change in rank from 2005 is shown in parentheses.[24]

1. Sudan (+2)
2. Democratic Republic of the Congo (0)
3. Côte d'Ivoire (-2)
4. Iraq (0)
5. Zimbabwe (+10)
6. Chad (+1)
7. Somalia (-2)
8. Haiti (+2)
9. Pakistan (+25)[25]
10. Afghanistan (+1)


11. Guinea (+5)
12. Liberia (-3)
13. Central African Republic (+7)
14. North Korea (-1)
15. Burundi (+3)
16. Yemen (-8)
17. Sierra Leone (-11)
18. Burma/Myanmar (+5)[26]
19. Bangladesh (-2)
20. Nepal (+15)[27]


You can check this in Wikipedia... and hey do you know the news?? I can see bangladesh but no india!!!

and please.. stop India bashing.. You are making this forum equivalent to a Bharat rakshak or something where pakistan bashing is on full swing without any sense.

Writing news about how muslims were killed and how christians are ill treated is perfectly fine. but outrightly calling it a failed state.. considering the differnce in the economies, international standing etc is immature.

 

[PeaceForAll]

right.. and bangladesh and pakistan are very strong countries right now? gimme a break.. its one thing to point out a glaring problem.. its another to go find it. Mr. Munshi has done that very successfully.

btw, this is a list of failed to states or 'warning' of failure states:

Failed States List

2008
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2008" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2008" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

177 states were included in the list, of which 35 were classified as "alert", 92 as "warning", 35 as "moderate", 15 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. Change in rank from 2007 is shown in parentheses.[16]

1. Somalia (+2)
2. Sudan (-1)
3. Zimbabwe (+1)
4. Chad (+1)
5. Iraq (-3)
6. Democratic Republic of the Congo (+1)
7. Afghanistan (+1)
8. Côte d'Ivoire (-2)
9. Pakistan (+3)
10. Central African Republic (0)


11. Guinea (-2)
12. Bangladesh (+4)
12. Burma/Myanmar(+2)
14. Haiti (-3)
15. North Korea (-2)
16. Ethiopia (+2)
16. Uganda (-1)
18. Lebanon (+10)[17]
18. Nigeria (-1)
20. Sri Lanka (+5)[18]

[edit] 2007
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2007" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2007" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

177 states were included in the list, of which 32 were classified as "alert", 97 as "warning", 33 as "moderate", 15 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. For the entire ranking see List of countries by Failed States Index. Change in rank from 2006 is shown in parentheses.[19]

1. Sudan (0)
2. Iraq (+2)
3. Somalia (+4)
4. Zimbabwe (+1)
5. Chad (+1)
6. Côte d'Ivoire (-3)
7. Democratic Republic of the Congo (-5)
8. Afghanistan (+2)
9. Guinea (+2)
10. Central African Republic (+3)


11. Haiti (-3)
12. Pakistan (-3)
13. North Korea (+1)
14. Burma/Myanmar (+4)
15. Uganda (+6)[20]
16. Bangladesh (+3)
17. Nigeria (+5)[21]
18. Ethiopia (+8)[22]
19. Burundi (-4)
20. Timor-Leste (N/A)[23]

[edit] 2006
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2006" of Foreign Policy Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable
Failed States according to the "Failed States Index 2006" of Foreign Policy
Alert Warning No Information / Dependent Territory Moderate Sustainable

146 states were included in the 2006 list, of which 28 were classified as "alert", 78 as "warning", 27 as "moderate", 13 as "sustainable". The worst 20 states are shown below. Change in rank from 2005 is shown in parentheses.[24]

1. Sudan (+2)
2. Democratic Republic of the Congo (0)
3. Côte d'Ivoire (-2)
4. Iraq (0)
5. Zimbabwe (+10)
6. Chad (+1)
7. Somalia (-2)
8. Haiti (+2)
9. Pakistan (+25)[25]
10. Afghanistan (+1)


11. Guinea (+5)
12. Liberia (-3)
13. Central African Republic (+7)
14. North Korea (-1)
15. Burundi (+3)
16. Yemen (-8)
17. Sierra Leone (-11)
18. Burma/Myanmar (+5)[26]
19. Bangladesh (-2)
20. Nepal (+15)[27]


You can check this in Wikipedia... and hey do you know the news?? I can see bangladesh but no india!!!

and please.. stop India bashing.. You are making this forum equivalent to a Bharat rakshak or something where pakistan bashing is on full swing without any sense.

Writing news about how muslims were killed and how christians are ill treated is perfectly fine. but outrightly calling it a failed state.. considering the differnce in the economies, international standing etc is immature.


(this is a repeat post)

 

[Smooth Operator]

A large and powerful state like Indian,with an overwhelming presence and stature is always a source of anxiety to its smaller neighbors,a state of affairs present elsewhere too.This feeling of being overwhelmed is more acute when the neighboring states harbor significant identity crisis,weak or still evolving political institutions,not to mention developing economies.

Invariably most of these countries host elements who will play up this Indian factor for their domestic audience,the islamist groups in PAK and Bangladesh,JVP in SL etc..........

They have to do what they have to do..

 

[Ali.009]

Agnostic Muslim, I've read your posts many times before, if anyone here is level headed and rational its you. You said that the post is one way to look at things. I'm sure you can imagine all the arguments Indians would make to counter that claim, the part about the Dalits actually talks about how it was the first rejection of discrimination, not sure if you saw that.

But anyways, what would be really constructive is for you to show the people the other side of the argument, because no matter what an Indian says, someone as retarded as Munshi will never see the other side, maybe coming from you would add more credibility and thus prevent every thread from descending into the cyclical never ending tirade of the oldest stories in the book.

Kindly go and visit the website about dalits which is mentioned in above article, they manage and run it and will tell you a true picture of what is happening with them in your 'country'.

And PeaceForAll - i can only laugh over you if you believe in such lists issed by world bank, UNO etc. And moreoever, we arent making any comparison with any other country over here. Starting some comparison is a most stupid thing.

Its a fact that india has lost control for much of its terrority, a clear recent example is assam. Its a fact that muslims are being burnt alive there, they always have been subjected to such pain. For you a successful state is one which only acqure wealth through fraud economy? Is that your indicator of a stable country? Ill advice you to read economics and learn what are the indicators of a successful state. You wont sing such a tune if you were one of those muslims being burnt in kashmir. No one is bashing anything, the article represent the facts, not made-up-stories, i wonder if you even read it.

Thats rubbish really -

What is rubbish really? Burning of muslims in India is rubbish? Christians being wiped out is rubbish? Assam flying Pakistani flags is rubbish? Kashmir has brought india down to its knees is rubbish? Illegal occupation of kashmir, by any world court, is rubbish? Inhumane treatment of untouchables is rubbish? 75% indians live below poverty line is rubbish? The biggest country to practise female infanticide is rubbish? What happens with a women when a husband dies in 'traditional' hindu culture?

I dont see any rubbish, all true facts. You should not have any elated view of yourself while sitting in foreign country. However, we arent making comparison, its just an analysis of the next 'super power' and world's 'biggest democracy'.

 

[zenith_suv]

Its a fact that india has lost control for much of its terrority, a clear recent example is assam. Its a fact that muslims are being burnt alive there,

credible source please

 

[Bull]

I think the question is rightly posed. Is India a failed state? How much control does it exert over its territory and does it have the complete loyalty of its people. Many of its people want to become separate but are forced into remaining within the union. India cannot be described as an effective state. It does not offer the majority of its population what its wants and cannot provide it.

I could understand if a US/EU citizen asks me this, but a B'deshi citizen ???

 

[Ali.009]

credible source please

If you will make some effort, and do a 'search' you'll find many credible sources even on this forum. I dont know what is your criteria of credible source lol? Some indian gov-controlled new channel?

 

[Ali.009]

You're calling India a failed state? India has insurgencies? You know you're fighting the F*cking taliban right? because of America and they're attacking you too. They have stabbed you in the back by betraying you and siding with India and yet you fight for them. Your country is bankrupt, Baluchistan is burning, FATA is about to become its own country, you have a suicide bomb go off every week, investors and running away, your president is out begging for cash,India is all over Afghanistan what else do you want me to say?

are you sure about India being a failed state? by that definition Pakistan isn't even a country. I have many reasons for respecting Pakistan, even though they are India's adversaries, but when you say retarded things like you did, you cannot expect a better reply.

Thats the problem with you, you cannot worry about your own problems while you take interest in others. Whatever is happening in Pakistan- worst is happening in India with 40 % of land mass under rebels. India is a failed fascist state by any world standard. Ive done my research over that, you do yours.

And kindly refrain from personal insults, ill get you banned othervise. You dont need to show your level here.