Is being Anti-Islam the same as Pro-Indian?

[doppelganger]

I feel partition has made it simple enough for India.

The ones who stayed back,implicitly agreed to be under the larger majority.

Nothing of the sort at all. They put in their lot with the concept of a secular inclusive India where the primary identifier was being of the soil and not the faith one followed.

I do not know which Constitution you follow, but my Constitution does not say any Indian is under over or any other position vis a vis any other Indian. All are alongside, front and center.

 

[rakam]

This is quite an interesting thread..
Brings out the questions whether Islam is only acceptable to the Indian Hindu Majority as long as it stays subservient and keeps providing bollywood actors. At best when Muslims do come into an intellectual or powerful role.. they must keep "apologizing" for Islam to remain popular with the "enlightened" intellectuals(and many posters here) from the Hindu majority.

In one fell swoop.. Islam has been thrown out as a religion of the invaders and massive efforts made to paint it as black.. from targeted "destruction" of existing sites to frame a barbaric Muslim history to an eyewash over any previous atrocities committed by other religions in India (such as the systematic elimination of Buddhism) in efforts to create a subservient minority that keeps its head down and eagerly plays holi for rising India.

Islam is problem of whole world from china to Russia and India to America , Europe .

it's very surprising in Pakistan minority (Hindu,christen,etc) ...are in path to vanish , their daughters are get kidnapped , their people are get killed . and you people talk about Muslims in India .

it's big heart of Hindus who made India secular given space to Muslims even after Muslims given pain of partition and barbaric history of Islam towards Hindus and others.

truth is Muslims are barbaric and uncivilized culture , they are not capable of running a country . if they get power to rule first thing they do is killing and converting non-Muslims. Islam is anti-secular anti-democratic religion.

hahah bollywood it's dancing monkeys it needs nothing , truth is due to Muslims India's progress rate is low most of them are useless , they created terrorism which sucks lots of energy of Indian government , uneducated , extremist , high rate criminals without Muslims india would have surpassed china today . but it's muslims factor which pulls india back

 

[bronxbull]

what constitution,

one that has been amended so many times or the one whose rules are brazenly violated day in and day out,

a constitution which tries to erase history prior to 1947 without the approval of the people living here,a constitution that is so incoherent with the character,style,concerns of the majority population,

you do realise that survival instinct and social security is the only thing that decides the rules of existence and everything else is just wishful thinking?

 

[doppelganger]

what constitution,

one that has been amended so many times or the one whose rules are brazenly violated day in and day out,

a constitution which tries to erase history prior to 1947 without the approval of the people living here,a constitution that is so incoherent with the character,style,concerns of the majority population,

you do realise that survival instinct and social security is the only thing that decides the rules of existence and everything else is just wishful thinking?

It is still the Constitution I follow. It is still the Constitution of the nation I call my motherland and where I live. So for me that is important. Baaki sab likhne ke liye accha hai.

Independence was Indians getting out from under someone.

You say Muslims just swapped the angrez for desi Hindus?

Come one yaar.

 

[bronxbull]

democracy ka matlab hi wohi hain?

agar mera identity religious hain,then i recognize someone else from his religious identity and democracy is numerical superiority dominates opinion?

so,isn't it simple enough?

 

[doppelganger]

democracy ka matlab hi wohi hain?

agar mera identity religious hain,then i recognize someone else from his religious identity and democracy is numerical superiority dominates opinion?

so,isn't it simple enough?

Democracy means we choose our leaders. They formulate laws and policies. The judiciary rules on them. The police keeps the law. The executive administration and bureaucracy execute the laws and policies.

If the majority wanted India to be a Hindu nation, then India would have been a Hindu nation.

Since we are still a secular nation, nobody under anybody else, I would assume the majority still want India to be a secular nation.

 

[asad71]

1. After remaining enslaved for millenniums, the Hindu has set up the Republic of India. It is another matter that many Indians, ranging from late Nirod Choudhri to the bonded farmers of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra, Karnataka, Rajasthan and others do not believe India is free. The dream of the Hindu is to establish a Hindu empire in SA. The proponents of Hindutva / Ram Rajya / Akhand Bharat visualize this empire (Maha Bharat) to stretch from the Oxus to the Bali Islands.

2. In this Maha Bharat there will be no place for non-Hindus. Already the constitution of India defines Hindus to include the Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Brahmos and others. Like Hinduism had overpowered Buddhism over centuries by various means - but the chief being cultural onslaught.

3. Through the Partition, 1947, Muslims have already been cornered - now in the east as well as in the west. Within India Muslims are encouraged to follow a form of Din e Ilahi or proscribed secularism. The objective is to eventually ethnically cleanse the Muslims out of SA.

4. Yes, there should be no doubt whatsoever that in SA being anti-Indian is to be pro-Islam for the Muslims of SA. The current State of India, ruled by a Brahmaonic oligarchy from Delhi, is a direct threat to the existence of Islam and Muslims in SA.

 

[SQ8]

Islam is problem of whole world from china to Russia and India to America , Europe .

it's very surprising in Pakistan minority (Hindu,christen,etc) ...are in path to vanish , their daughters are get kidnapped , their people are get killed . and you people talk about Muslims in India .

it's big heart of Hindus who made India secular given space to Muslims even after Muslims given pain of partition and barbaric history of Islam towards Hindus and others.

truth is Muslims are barbaric and uncivilized culture , they are not capable of running a country . if they get power to rule first thing they do is killing and converting non-Muslims. Islam is anti-secular anti-democratic religion.

hahah bollywood it's dancing monkeys it needs nothing , truth is due to Muslims India's progress rate is low most of them are useless , they created terrorism which sucks lots of energy of Indian government , uneducated , extremist , high rate criminals without Muslims india would have surpassed china today . but it's muslims factor which pulls india back

So, how many Indians agree with this person's bigotry?
Is it common place?

 

[KRAIT]

So, how many Indians agree with this person's bigotry?
Is it common place?

An interesting story. Mohammed Ali, the great boxer who converted to Islam was asked by a host that does he feel bad about Islam because 9/11 was done by Muslims ? He smiled and said, Do you feel bad about being Christian because Hitler was a Christian too ?

I have already posted about where Muslims were killed in Millions by other religion people and where Muslims killed Muslims. But at the same time, Hundreds of Millions of Muslims live peacefully.

Religion is never wrong, its the ignorant and misguided people who are wrong which use religion as excuse.

But what he is saying is the exact paranoia, blame game and trust deficit that is increasing all over the world. Unfortunately, I see things going worse every other day.

So my answer is, yes there are such people in our country too.

But majority don't give a flying fcuk about what they say. Because my mother is in my home town and I am tension free because a Muslim brother who is a doctor too, is there to take care of her if she has any health problem
.

 

[ares]

1. After remaining enslaved for millenniums, the Hindu has set up the Republic of India. It is another matter that many Indians, ranging from late Nirod Choudhri to the bonded farmers of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra, Karnataka, Rajasthan and others do not believe India is free. The dream of the Hindu is to establish a Hindu empire in SA. The proponents of Hindutva / Ram Rajya / Akhand Bharat visualize this empire (Maha Bharat) to stretch from the Oxus to the Bali Islands.

2. In this Maha Bharat there will be no place for non-Hindus. Already the constitution of India defines Hindus to include the Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Brahmos and others. Like Hinduism had overpowered Buddhism over centuries by various means - but the chief being cultural onslaught.

3. Through the Partition, 1947, Muslims have already been cornered - now in the east as well as in the west. Within India Muslims are encouraged to follow a form of Din e Ilahi or proscribed secularism. The objective is to eventually ethnically cleanse the Muslims out of SA.

4. Yes, there should be no doubt whatsoever that in SA being anti-Indian is to be pro-Islam for the Muslims of SA. The current State of India, ruled by a Brahmaonic oligarchy from Delhi, is a direct threat to the existence of Islam and Muslims in SA.

Your paranoia is an extension of your upbringing..If Indians(which is a hindu majority country) wanted a Hindu state ..they would have had a Hindu state 66yrs ago.
It is simply beneath us to affiliate a nation as big, diverse and vibrant as India with a single religion or for that matter 'any religion' at all.
Putting it simply, it is just beneath us to drop down to your level!!

 

[SQ8]

An interesting story. Mohammed Ali, the great boxer who converted to Islam was asked by a host that does he feel bad about Islam because 9/11 was done by Muslims ? He smiled and said, Do you feel bad about Christianity because Hitler was a Christian too ?

I have already posted about where Muslims were killed in Millions by other religion people and where Muslims killed Muslims. But at the same time, Hundreds of Millions of Muslims live peacefully.

Religion is never wrong, its the ignorant and misguided people who are wrong which use religion as excuse.

Bu what he is saying is the exact paranoia, blame game and trust deficit that is increasing all over the world. Unfortunately, I see things going worse every other day.

Which is what I ask of Indian Muslim history..
I use the term Indian Muslim inclusively.. as I mean Muslims of the Sub-continent..
Should they always carry the stigma of being regarded as Invaders as is held by many a esteemed members here?

Are none of the great progresses in architecture, music, literature.. even the relative peacefulness of the Dehli Sultanates
Should Sher Shah Suri's achievements be disregarded as alien.. and not part of India or its peoples?
Sure there were brutal rulers within Muslims as well.. but was it just Muslims who were always the brutal rulers??

After all.. how long does it take for a peoples to be considered a part of the land?? If the theory presented by many esteemed members in their anti-Islam tirade is to be taken at face value.. then no Americans should dare call themselves American.. and should be disowned.. or rather the evolution of human settlements should be branded as shirk as they all left their lands to settle and/or rule elsewhere.

1. After remaining enslaved for millenniums, the Hindu has set up the Republic of India. It is another matter that many Indians, ranging from late Nirod Choudhri to the bonded farmers of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra, Karnataka, Rajasthan and others do not believe India is free. The dream of the Hindu is to establish a Hindu empire in SA. The proponents of Hindutva / Ram Rajya / Akhand Bharat visualize this empire (Maha Bharat) to stretch from the Oxus to the Bali Islands.

2. In this Maha Bharat there will be no place for non-Hindus. Already the constitution of India defines Hindus to include the Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Brahmos and others. Like Hinduism had overpowered Buddhism over centuries by various means - but the chief being cultural onslaught.

3. Through the Partition, 1947, Muslims have already been cornered - now in the east as well as in the west. Within India Muslims are encouraged to follow a form of Din e Ilahi or proscribed secularism. The objective is to eventually ethnically cleanse the Muslims out of SA.

4. Yes, there should be no doubt whatsoever that in SA being anti-Indian is to be pro-Islam for the Muslims of SA. The current State of India, ruled by a Brahmaonic oligarchy from Delhi, is a direct threat to the existence of Islam and Muslims in SA.

I cant agree entirely with your post.. but I do not disagree either.. I do feel there are certain sections of India's ruling class that believe in that concept(just as many Muslims may believe in the return of Muslim rule)..
To what extent does that influence long term(long term is 20-30 years) government social and education policies?
To what extend does it influence the general population?

 

[bronxbull]

So, how many Indians agree with this person's bigotry?
Is it common place?

I am a fairly extreme right winger but i dont have any hate for islam,the religion.

But i believe India has to be a Hindu country to counter balance the region and this fake secularism doesn't help.

As a hindu i would never harm the place of worship of any other religion or insult the womenfolk of any other religion to prove a political point or otherwise.

Everyone has a right to pray to whoever they want and live peacefully.

But i believe India has to be a hindu country and all the secularists should show more honesty in their lives rather than behaving a herd of brainwashed marxists,that they are.

Frankly,the war is with secularists who are confused themselves but try to give the perception to the rest of the country that they are the intelligentsia.

None of them are actually involved in useful professions qualifying intelligentsia like Academics,Doctors,Engineers,Army,Bureaucracy and are mostly involved in time pass professions like films,media and random dalaali.

we are more concerned this bunch of original jokers hijacking the power space in India.

An interesting story. Mohammed Ali, the great boxer who converted to Islam was asked by a host that does he feel bad about Islam because 9/11 was done by Muslims ? He smiled and said, Do you feel bad about being Christian because Hitler was a Christian too ?

I have already posted about where Muslims were killed in Millions by other religion people and where Muslims killed Muslims. But at the same time, Hundreds of Millions of Muslims live peacefully.

Religion is never wrong, its the ignorant and misguided people who are wrong which use religion as excuse.

But what he is saying is the exact paranoia, blame game and trust deficit that is increasing all over the world. Unfortunately, I see things going worse every other day.

So my answer is, yes there are such people in our country too.

But majority don't give a flying fcuk about what they say. Because my mother is in my home town and I am tension free because a Muslim brother who is a doctor too, is there to take care of her if she has any health problem
.

Yeah but Muhammad Ali is wrong there,

9/11 was sold to public memmory as a crusade of one quam against another,but Hitler's was not like that.

 

[KRAIT]

@Oscar Sir, we think it is of Indian heritage, even if it is built by a Hindu, Muslim or for Buddhists or Jains. If we leave this, we will be leaving our inter-twined traditions and customs.

There has been some unfortunate incidents that I agree but it is expected to happen especially in a country with such a population, and diversity.

People often talk about riots in India. But they never talk about stories when Hindu and Muslim families risked their lives to save the other religion neighbors from their own people.
Unfortunately, no one talks about it.

@bronxbull Its about generalization of entire community over action of few.

 

[bronxbull]

Which is what I ask of Indian Muslim history..
I use the term Indian Muslim inclusively.. as I mean Muslims of the Sub-continent..
Should they always carry the stigma of being regarded as Invaders as is held by many a esteemed members here?

Are none of the great progresses in architecture, music, literature.. even the relative peacefulness of the Dehli Sultanates
Should Sher Shah Suri's achievements be disregarded as alien.. and not part of India or its peoples?
Sure there were brutal rulers within Muslims as well.. but was it just Muslims who were always the brutal rulers??

After all.. how long does it take for a peoples to be considered a part of the land?? If the theory presented by many esteemed members in their anti-Islam tirade is to be taken at face value.. then no Americans should dare call themselves American.. and should be disowned.. or rather the evolution of human settlements should be branded as shirk as they all left their lands to settle and/or rule elsewhere.



I cant agree entirely with your post.. but I do not disagree either.. I do feel there are certain sections of India's ruling class that believe in that concept(just as many Muslims may believe in the return of Muslim rule)..
To what extent does that influence long term(long term is 20-30 years) government social and education policies?
To what extend does it influence the general population?

Thats why Subramanian Swamy said that they should acknowledge that their ancestors were Hindus,instead of trying to divorce the past completely.

It is also true that many of them could indeed be invader's progeny but many of them are not.

I believe that until Muslims stop being too full of themselves,start recognizing regional,cultural and linguistic features also as a part of their identity.

This is the most important as they all try to tag along together as one,do the same thing,speak urdu and give up their native tongues.

Nobody else does this in the world,This gives other people a sense of alienation from this group.

Fundamentally the religion is not native to this land,that's another fundamental reason for the alienation.

And trying to divorce the past is a dangerous thing,always.

 

[bronxbull]

And another topic here is that Most Indian did and still do want a Hindu state,the fact that castes and cultures of the native land is well alive is proof enough of that.

If Nehru and his academically decadent bunch were to represent Indians,then we would all be athiests,womanizers and carry psyphillis.

They never did represent India then or now,

Nor do all those Congress politicians who also happen to be Supreme Court Lawyers dont.

Indian Bureaucrats do,Indian NRIs do,Indian Sportsmen do and Indian Filmstars dont.

So,most people are unaware of the trap set by these seemingly elitist but really cunning and apathetic and parasites of our society.

So,thats why a fairytale constitution helps nobody if it clearly undermines the real sentiments and emotions of its people,

why do we need it,what have these dreamtale spinners given us?

Everything useful to India is largely contributed by Theists of any religion or largely spiritual people who come from middle class families with passion and love for the country and its traditions.

Why do this Jhola bunch of JNU/Liberal Arts idiots of St.Stephens deserve our time,is it for their verbosity?

Which is what I ask of Indian Muslim history..
I use the term Indian Muslim inclusively.. as I mean Muslims of the Sub-continent..
Should they always carry the stigma of being regarded as Invaders as is held by many a esteemed members here?

Are none of the great progresses in architecture, music, literature.. even the relative peacefulness of the Dehli Sultanates
Should Sher Shah Suri's achievements be disregarded as alien.. and not part of India or its peoples?
Sure there were brutal rulers within Muslims as well.. but was it just Muslims who were always the brutal rulers??

After all.. how long does it take for a peoples to be considered a part of the land?? If the theory presented by many esteemed members in their anti-Islam tirade is to be taken at face value.. then no Americans should dare call themselves American.. and should be disowned.. or rather the evolution of human settlements should be branded as shirk as they all left their lands to settle and/or rule elsewhere.



I cant agree entirely with your post.. but I do not disagree either.. I do feel there are certain sections of India's ruling class that believe in that concept(just as many Muslims may believe in the return of Muslim rule)..
To what extent does that influence long term(long term is 20-30 years) government social and education policies?
To what extend does it influence the general population?

Americans went a sparsely populated land and made their own culture,which was a mix of their native culture.

And they were succesful in getting rid of the land from the American Indians and same thing in South America where the Spanish/Potuguese almost eradicated native people and allw e have now is different shades of brown from mulato/mestizo.

If the Muslims had managed to do that,then there would be no problem but they did not do that.

All well and good but obviously you have to finish the job else the native guy at one point ll say,get out of my land.

so,yeah.