Is being Anti-Islam the same as Pro-Indian?

[SQ8]

@Oscar Sir, we think it is of Indian heritage, even if it is built by a Hindu, Muslim or for Buddhists or Jains. If we leave this, we will be leaving our inter-twined traditions and customs.

There has been some unfortunate incidents that I agree but it is expected to happen especially in a country with such a population, and diversity.

People often talk about riots in India. But they never talk about stories when Hindu and Muslim families risked their lives to save the other religion neighbors from their own people.
Unfortunately, no one talks about it.

@bronxbull Its about generalization of entire community over action of few.

This generalization is what I am talking about.. You can see the level of one sided bigotry in the members posts.
at no point does he wish to refer to the actual integration on the ground... the actual fact within the claim of ancestry that people make.. but rather takes a broad sweep at Muslims ..generalizing them into a hateful group he does not wish to keep ..or would rather throw them out..

Its this attitude I refer to..

Does it not happen elsewhere.. well.. Pakistan is the opposite.. non-muslims are being prosecuted.. and so on..
but this prosecution is the result of uneducated clergy sowing hatred.. and it does not translate into the educated urbanites as such..other than that they are guilty of simply not caring about it..
But here we have an example of someone who seems to be educated.. yet holds a view that would reflect that of a Mullah or those obsessed with a Ghazwa-e-hind.

 

[illusion8]

Secular state also means not giving Haj Subsidy

Haj subsidy is for senior citizens who happen to be Indian Muslims plus the Indian Muslim is weak economically and most cannot afford this journey. Though it's a costly luxury but worth it.

This generalization is what I am talking about.. You can see the level of one sided bigotry in the members posts.
at no point does he wish to refer to the actual integration on the ground... the actual fact within the claim of ancestry that people make.. but rather takes a broad sweep at Muslims ..generalizing them into a hateful group he does not wish to keep ..or would rather throw them out..

Its this attitude I refer to..

Does it not happen elsewhere.. well.. Pakistan is the opposite.. non-muslims are being prosecuted.. and so on..
but this prosecution is the result of uneducated clergy sowing hatred.. and it does not translate into the educated urbanites as such..other than that they are guilty of simply not caring about it..
But here we have an example of someone who seems to be educated.. yet holds a view that would reflect that of a Mullah or those obsessed with a Ghazwa-e-hind.

Is the clergy alone to be blamed, isn't Zia and Bhutto the main cause for it?

 

[neutral_person]

1. After remaining enslaved for millenniums, the Hindu has set up the Republic of India. It is another matter that many Indians, ranging from late Nirod Choudhri to the bonded farmers of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra, Karnataka, Rajasthan and others do not believe India is free. The dream of the Hindu is to establish a Hindu empire in SA. The proponents of Hindutva / Ram Rajya / Akhand Bharat visualize this empire (Maha Bharat) to stretch from the Oxus to the Bali Islands.

2. In this Maha Bharat there will be no place for non-Hindus. Already the constitution of India defines Hindus to include the Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Brahmos and others. Like Hinduism had overpowered Buddhism over centuries by various means - but the chief being cultural onslaught.

3. Through the Partition, 1947, Muslims have already been cornered - now in the east as well as in the west. Within India Muslims are encouraged to follow a form of Din e Ilahi or proscribed secularism. The objective is to eventually ethnically cleanse the Muslims out of SA.

4. Yes, there should be no doubt whatsoever that in SA being anti-Indian is to be pro-Islam for the Muslims of SA. The current State of India, ruled by a Brahmaonic oligarchy from Delhi, is a direct threat to the existence of Islam and Muslims in SA.

1. Not really, most RSS people only want the current India to be changed into a Hindu Republic

2. Indian Constitution does not say anything regarding religion AT ALL. Source if you have one? Because you clearly dont...

3. We really dont care at all about BD and Pak Muslims, you guys can change your cuntry to Taliban Republic if you want. We do care about Indian Muslims, and yes they need to be secular because they are living in a secular country called India.

4. What is this South Asia you keep talking about? There is only India and outside India. We could care less if Muslims/Hindus/Christians Sikhs in BD/Pak are pro/anti-India or pro/anti Islam. Also, if Islam and Secularism are not compatible, than the brand of Islam that is not compatible with secularism needs to go away from India, again dont care about the rest of SA.

 

[KRAIT]

@Oscar Sir, there are multiple cases of even the Most educated people turning into a terrorist.

Education is one factor. You are making wrong conclusion due to ignoring other factors. Here I am a;so an educated Hindu that is opposing his views just like there are people in you country which opposes the extremist ideology.

India is too complicated to understand. The discussion will start from centuries ago.

 

[bronxbull]

Haj subsidy is for senior citizens who happen to be Indian Muslims plus the Indian Muslim is weak economically and most cannot afford this journey. Though it's a costly luxury but worth it.



Is the clergy alone to be blamed, isn't Zia and Bhutto the main cause for it?

In a country where many people dont have food,why should we subsidize someone's pilgrimage?

This generalization is what I am talking about.. You can see the level of one sided bigotry in the members posts.
at no point does he wish to refer to the actual integration on the ground... the actual fact within the claim of ancestry that people make.. but rather takes a broad sweep at Muslims ..generalizing them into a hateful group he does not wish to keep ..or would rather throw them out..

Its this attitude I refer to..

Does it not happen elsewhere.. well.. Pakistan is the opposite.. non-muslims are being prosecuted.. and so on..
but this prosecution is the result of uneducated clergy sowing hatred.. and it does not translate into the educated urbanites as such..other than that they are guilty of simply not caring about it..
But here we have an example of someone who seems to be educated.. yet holds a view that would reflect that of a Mullah or those obsessed with a Ghazwa-e-hind.

I never said we have to throw people out or hurt them or insult them,

But the community has not taken any steps forward to stand counted,so we just have to go by assumptions.

 

[illusion8]

In a country where many people dont have food,why should we subsidize someone's pilgrimage?

Is there no food because of shortage of money or food or because of bad policy and corrupt people? why should one be the cause of the stoppage of the other?

 

[bronxbull]

@bronxbull I don't know about other religion, but moral degradation of Hindus.

Do you know Dalits in a Bihar village are not allowed to enter the village and they have to survive on eating rats.?

What type of Hindu allow female foeticide, gang rape of Dalit women by higher castes, allow people to die of hunger ?

In our religion, Women have 50% reservation even at God level, but not in Parliament.

Because of extremism propagated and paranoia created, the moderate Hindus supports Pseudo Secular govt. like Congress. Because of this extreme ideology, Hindus are divided in three categories, the most violent ones, the moderate ones and the oppressed ones whom no one care.

We survived thousands of years, against Muslim and British Invasion but when I see Islamic and Hindu extremism locking horns along with Pseudo Secular opportunistic Congressi, I feel that this is the biggest danger to my country.

Look at Modi. What he did in a decade. Even Muslims are voting for him. He not only kicked Muslim extremists but also tightened Hindu extremists like Bajrang Dal and VHP.

I ask you to stop this extremism. People from West are coming to learn Hinduism. Its spreading without any effort or gun on anyone's head.

Come to my village and I will show you what is the real threat to our country.

Religion is like a product. You have to keep its quality to keep it as a successful product. Increase the quality of Hindus within our community, see how people will adopt it without saying any word to anyone.

Yes I am Rajput and I will rather die if someone attacks my family and my neighbor who is from other religion, defending them against my own people or others if they are wrong.

What makes you think that being aright wing person means i don't address these concerns of yours or that i think different from you in these things?

I dont support rape as a political/personal upon anyone in any situation,Caste system is a different evil and applying abrahamic logic to these things wont help.

It is the issues if the Hindu society and they ll get sorted in course of time,least we can do is not experiment knee jerk solutions.

You talk about dalits,you talk about the old caste system and need for reform today but you forget that you are willing to forget history when it comes to Muslims and move on whereas with regards to the Hindu system,you are still keen on referring and going back to history.

I dont what classification you have for Hindus saying violent/moderate and all,i dont understand why such a classification is warranted seems too generic and counter intuitive.

I dont want to sell Hinduism or show a number strength randomly.

It is age old wisdom and a lot of common sense,so it doesn't matter how many stay or not.

All i am saying is that India is the homeland of Hindus and India is for the Hindus primarily.

Everyone is welcome to come here and learn hinduism and benefit from us,

I dont see why you term this extremism,

I want to keep a guns and a sentry at my house just in case something bad happens,whats wrong with that?

I also come from a village and i know what you are talking about,just because you are perfect internally doesn't mean you shouldn't fight externally,we dont exist in a cocoon that you withdraw and rejoin the world whenever you want.

I dont support VHP/Bajrang Dal or their actions against innocent people.

But nobody is a saint here and the majority community cannot keep taking **** just to help some dreamer get his crystal ball glowing.

Nobody is asking you not to support wrong people against a decent muslim,but you have to understand that seeking ownership for one's own quam/religion/country is important enough.

If a Rajput went bad,it is a shame for you as well and the same thing goes for me too.

Is there no food because of shortage of money or food or because of bad policy and corrupt people? why should one be the cause of the stoppage of the other?

Thats not the point,it is a matter of priorities.

We dont have money to waste on subsidizing Hajj Pilgrims,let them not do it if they dont have money.

Many Hindus like to go to Kashi.but are quite content going to the nearby temple.

 

[KS]

Is there no food because of shortage of money or food or because of bad policy and corrupt people? why should one be the cause of the stoppage of the other?

Even if there is money why should the pilgrimage be subsidized in a supposedly secular country ?

 

[ashokdeiva]

Even if there is money why should the pilgrimage be subsidized in a supposedly secular country ?

For one reason, that the minorities should not feel spooked. As the majority in the country we have a obligation to make sure that the minorities don't feel threatened by trying to treat them equal as individuals and leave their collective representation to the drain.
It might result in what the Shingala majority did to their Tamil minority, yet except a few SL guys no one realizes that.
Though there are minor cause of friction here and there in the Indian Communal fabric, we have not gone to the extent of Muslims taking arms and fighting for a seperate nation because we gave them atonomy to some extent in the LAW, we gave them subsidy in Huj and other religious prlingrimage so that they dont feel unsecure from the majority and feel that the majority is helping them out in their religious obligation of going to MECCA once in their life time.

 

[KS]

....
Should they always carry the stigma of being regarded as Invaders as is held by many a esteemed members here?...

It is for them to decide.

For example, if they identify more with Muhammed Ghori rather than with Prithviraj Chauhan or more with Mughals than with Rana Pratap or Abdali than with Marathas then ofcouse the majority will base their opinion on that.

There is no point in blaming the majority community of bigotry, when the muslims themselves are more likely to identify themselves with the invaders than with the native kings, solely on account of religion.

....Are none of the great progresses in architecture, music, literature.. even the relative peacefulness of the Dehli Sultanates...

Not another version of white man's burden please..India did not lack anything of the above mentioned that the "invaders" had to give us.. Infact the invasions set in a deep rot in the Indian society when it comes to actually useful things like science and philosophy because all the universities were destroyed by the invaders. Its like the argument that we should be thankful to the british for giving us railways. Actually that is a more valid assertion than the arts and architecture claim.

Moreover have you been to South India ? The arts and grandeur of the temples there would put most of the ones in North India to shame.

Sure there were brutal rulers within Muslims as well.. but was it just Muslims who were always the brutal rulers??

When it comes to how kings treated their minorities, perhaps it was only the Muslim rulers who figure there..can you tell me one well known Hindu king who actually brutalized his Muslim population during his reign ?

Actually the Marathas at the peak of their power controlled the whole of North India..If they wanted they could have demolished each and every mosque and rebuilt the temples there..But did they do that ? No, they treated all their subjects fairly irrespective of him being Muslim or Hindu. Ahilyabhai Holkar did not even demolish the mosque that stood in the place of the original Vishwanath Mandir and built one nearby.

That is why the assertion of a hindu India will become a mirror of Islamic Pakistan falls flat on its face.

After all.. how long does it take for a peoples to be considered a part of the land??

Hardly a second.

Its not about genetics that one can say that only after centuriies the blood will be diluted enough to call oneself a native. It is about the state of thinking. As long as the muslims identify themselves with the invaders, that the invaders were kind enough to being them Islam and liberate them from jahiliya, that perception will remain, even though they are genetically native to the subcontinent.

Take for example Iran..they are an Islamic republic..but do they identify with the Arabs even though it was they who introduced Islam to Iran ? No. They are a role model to all the non-Arab Muslims.

 

[KS]

...For one reason, that the minorities should not feel spooked....

why will they feel spooked when its their religious obligation to make Haj on their own money ?

 

[ashokdeiva]

why will they feel spooked when its their religious obligation to make Haj on their own money ?

They will feel thankful to the majority for helping out their religous obligation and will not think why should I be a minority when there is no extra benifit to be less significant among the majority.
If you don't give them such special previlages they fell like 11th in the queue of 10 and not as 1 in 10.

 

[KS]

They will feel thankful to the majority for helping out their religous obligation and will not think why should I be a minority when there is no extra benifit to be less significant among the majority.

Really ?..

Have you heard of the proverb..சான் குடுத்தா முழம் கேட்கிறது ?

And either way that makes us a non-secular country, interfering in the religious affairs of citizens.

 

[KS]

@bronxbull Its about generalization of entire community over action of few.

No it is not few. I'll tell you who the "few" are. Those that dont identify themselves with the invaders and call them for what they are. But anyway,probably you already know that.

Islam in India, rather than being Indianized over the centuries is progressively becoming more Arabized.

 

[Jayanta]

This question, of course, is in context of the perception that India enjoys in its immediate neighborhood.

I read a few articles on the recent tensions in Maldives, Bangladesh and Pakistan. In a number of these articles, the two terms "anti-islam" and "pro-indian" were used almost interchangeably.

So is being anti-islam the same as being pro-indian? What do you think?

The fact that the percentage of Muslims in India has risen from about 9.91% in 1951 to 13.43% in 2001 to 14% in 2010 shows that there is nothing anti-Muslim in India. Now can some one give me a figure of Hindus and other minorities for the past 5 decades of the so called neighboring countries. The trend will show you the ground realities. It is just a propaganda of neighboring countries to instigate communal hatred and also to prove that the basis on which India was divided (2 nation theory) was correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21aLBgKNLKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVe10jwZfAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcjb0CwbIZ4
And mind it...these are the views of Muslims...not a Hindu.