Is anyone else Agnostic/Atheist here?

[Dalai Lama]

A question that arises from reading iota and Freekin's posts: Do people normally ask you which religion you follow in Pakistan?

 

[JonAsad]

I want to know this for general knowledge--

if Athiestism or Agnosticism is not a Religion-- then what is it?

Is it just a belief?- Yes-- then a belief related to creation of universe, faith in God etc-- automatically becomes a religion-
Is it just a belief?- No- then what is it?

The only term i can think of is- that Athiestism or Agnosticism is a Non- Religion-

So i ask this- why discussions on religion is not allowed and non-religion is allowed?

 

[Hyde]

This forum does not allow debates on religion or any sort of religious proselytizing topics.

However this particular thread is not about religion as neither agnosticism, nor atheism are religions. Similarly, the OP is just asking for feedback from like minded individuals who pretend to be something in front of their close ones but feel different individually.

if that was the case then what is this?

Technically not true Buddhism says not to dwell on 'if' there is a God or not it does not rule it out however

religious discussion?

I'm a proud atheist.

Trust me, you don't want to hear my opinion on religion...

hate for other religions?

And I feel bad for you too. Read Richard Dawkin's "God delusion" once, and you may change your mind. (Although most people arrive at same conclusion without reading the book)
Keep your eyes and ears open bro.

proselyting?

I am getting there, not totally athesit but somewhat getting there.
Here is what I see.
Religion has become more political.
Religion is getting distorted, people who preach them add their own things to it. There are things that I found which people added to religion something that was never propogated in religion itself. This makes me believe that lot of what we have heard about religion might have been distorted today.

I am also seeing new gods being created out of living people (e.g. satya sai baba) He was clearly shown on TV to be cheating with followers. I still see people beleiving he is god. Now when this is the situation today when we have more literate people. What garuntee is lot of what we know as religion is not right.

Last ask people, they will say that they strongly believe in their religion but ask the same question about other religion and they will be inclined to believe that a lot of it is false.

What does it tell you?
If you leave the emotion aside, it will be hard to believe a lot of what is written in religion.

generalizing all the religions and proselyting

is it not religious discussion?

Refuting God is ok.... but defending God becomes proselyting

there are more posts in this thread - just quoted randomly

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Look, someone could create a thread called 'Any Muslims here?' But then what?

I am sure you would get a ton of responses, but that would be obvious, and there would be little new to discuss since Pakistanis are primarily Muslim and typically openly practice their faith, talk, read and listen/watch shows about Islam.

Pakistani atheists/agnostics on the other hand tend to not be open about their beliefs because of societal and family pressures. Heck, some Islamic scholars argue that they should be 'killed' because they 'converted away from Islam', and a simple statement of 'I am an atheist and do not believe God exists' could be easily portrayed as Blasphmey under our absurd and intolerant blasphemy laws.

So the lack of a 'level playing field' is in fact the result of a largely Muslim society that frowns upon atheists and agnostics, and pressures them on various ways to keep their beliefs hidden. Given that environment, a thread such as this in fact helps to 'even the playing field's by providing a platform for atheists/agnostics to socialize and share experiences, which they cannot easily do in real life, unlike most Pakistani Muslims.

That said, this thread will not be about discussing atheism or agnosticism, but for exchanging experiences and socializing.

 

[Dalai Lama]

if that was the case then what is this?


religious discussion?



hate for other religions?

proselyting?

generalizing all the religions and proselyting

is it not religious discussion?

Refuting God is ok.... but defending God becomes proselyting

there are more posts in this thread - just quoted randomly

Man, you misunderstood me. First of all atheism is not a religion and I don't hate religions. I just have a strong opinion on them which others may not like and no, I'm not going to tell you.

 

[The HBS Guy]

I want to know this for general knowledge--

if Athiestism or Agnosticism is not a Religion-- then what is it?

Is it just a belief?- Yes-- then a belief related to creation of universe, faith in God etc-- automatically becomes a religion-
Is it just a belief?- No- then what is it?

The only term i can think of is- that Athiestism or Agnosticism is a Non- Religion-

Try to think of it as 'nothing'. Does 'nothing' mean a 'non-thing'? There are two sets, if you remember some of the maths. God/Religion is one set and anti-religion is another set. Both of them are disjoint sets. 'Atheism' lies in between them.

So i ask this- why discussions on religion is not allowed and non-religion is allowed?

Let's please not be so sensitive. Learn to tolerate different opinions in life. It'll make you a better person.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am against creating religious personally threads because ppl use it for trolling and bashing a religion and it hurts the feeling But this thread should be closed as well because I see it as a way of promoting a particular belief if the op is actually bothered so much he should seek guidance in private and not on a social forum because lot of ppl like me will find it offending and it won't actually help him and will serve no ones cause so kindly close it if you agree

Guidance in private? So do you support revoking the laws that PUBLICLY discriminate against Ahmadis and other religious minorities by prohibiting them from calling themselves what they want and/or prohibiting them from holding certain public offices?

 

[T-Faz]

@zaki

As a believer and someone who follows a religion, you are expected to have a higher threshold for tolerance especially in matters relating to religion.

You are absolutely free to challenge or refute any comment that questions your religion but you cannot promote it without a requirement for it.

However your focus should be limited whereby you dispel any malice towards your faith and remain within that frame, to stand for your religion and without any need for a deep theological debate.

 

[Mutee]

@T FAZ sir you are a moderator here must have done something nice since they made you one but the op is asking a very personal question don't you think? and you don't want to encourage ppl asking opnions about their personl issues on this forum now do u ? I support the idea that ppl should be discouraged when discussing religion because many don't know what they are talking about and it's sensitive but on the other hand don't encourage ppl to share their personal issues here husband wife fight etc

 

[FreekiN]

A question that arises from reading iota and Freekin's posts: Do people normally ask you which religion you follow in Pakistan?

No. They automatically assume you're muslim if you have a muslim name.

So i just play along and go with it. It's really not that hard. Annoying, yes, but not hard.

 

[JonAsad]

Look, someone could create a thread called 'Any Muslims here?' But then what?

I am sure you would get a ton of responses, but that would be obvious, and there would be little new to discuss since Pakistanis are primarily Muslim and typically openly practice their faith, talk, read and listen/watch shows about Islam.

Pakistani atheists/agnostics on the other hand tend to not be open about their beliefs because of societal and family pressures. Heck, some Islamic scholars argue that they should be 'killed' because they 'converted away from Islam', and a simple statement of 'I am an atheist and do not believe God exists' could be easily portrayed as Blasphmey under our absurd and intolerant blasphemy laws.

So the lack of a 'level playing field' is in fact the result of a largely Muslim society that frowns upon atheists and agnostics, and pressures them on various ways to keep their beliefs hidden. Given that environment, a thread such as this in fact helps to 'even the playing field's by providing a platform for atheists/agnostics to socialize and share experiences, which they cannot easily do in real life, unlike most Pakistani Muslims.

That said, this thread will not be about discussing atheism or agnosticism, but for exchanging experiences and socializing.

I see in your above post you are talking about atheists or agnostics are not allowed to openly express their beliefs or opinions in Pakistan- or they are not accepted in Muslim society or in Pakistan- Or they are being suppressed-- some are threatened etc etc--

The way i see it this thread is already being shaped against one community and one religion- Now how can in such circumstance you can expect a muslim or a pakistani to remain silent?--

The bolded part-- i am sure some of them had very bad experiences with Muslims-- one way or another its gonna turn into religious bashings- Believe me- its inevitable

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@T FAZ sir you are a moderator here must have done something nice since they made you one but the op is asking a very personal question don't you think? and you don't want to encourage ppl asking opnions about their personl issues on this forum now do u ? I support the idea that ppl should be discouraged when discussing religion because many don't know what they are talking about and it's sensitive but on the other hand don't encourage ppl to share their personal issues here husband wife fight etc

Not all personal questions are off limits- one could start a thread asking 'Any married members?' Or 'any doctors' or ' any artists'.

Pakistani agnostics and atheists are a rare enough demographic to justify such a thread, especially given the threats and pressures they would face in the real world were they open about their beliefs. The reaction of some on this thread justifies that fear.

 

[T-Faz]

The OP has decided to ask a question which is not breaking any rules of this forum, people have before, asked tor opinions on relationships, friendship and other matters.

If the OP is comfortable in revealing this information then I have no issues with it being discussed rationally.

Similarly the members club is for socializing and this is one way of getting to know each other on a more personal level.

 

[Mutee]

Guidance in private? So do you support revoking the laws that PUBLICLY discriminate against Ahmadis and other religious minorities by prohibiting them from calling themselves what they want and/or prohibiting them from holding certain public offices?

.

Sir as far as I am concerned ahmadis are non Muslims so any law that bans them from calling themselves muslim I am in support of that and don't want to revoke it but what he is asking is a PERSONAL thing in my opinion he's not represeting All the atheists here is he ? He's not representing bill maher is he ? it was strange how u made connection between particular individual and a sect

 

[The HBS Guy]

No. They automatically assume you're muslim if you have a muslim name.

So i just play along and go with it. It's really not that hard. Annoying, yes, but not hard.

Who's the chick in the avatar?