Iron Age (Vedic era) Pakistanis were nothing like modern Indians

[Pakistani E]

Hey dude, Afaik I think you're pukhtun right so I hope you can offer me some insights into this phenomena

I heard that pukhtuns outside of waziristan are actually dardics who have been Pashtunized after the 1500s etc(common phenomenon Arabs, Turks), is this true or like somewhat true as dardics were native people who have mixed heavily with and assimilated into the pukhtun culture?
What do you think of this theory, peshwar valley and other such places were dardic areas historically and some potohari Punjabi were around too but it was mostly a dardic area
Cause pukhtuns of swat etc especially have the closest DNA to ancient ghandharan people after that Punjabi kamboh and than some other local Pashtun tribes

but yousafzai moved there in the 1400,1500s this triggered my very basic research into this , so like I am interested in knowing the prescriptive of pukhtuns of those areas especially
What do y'all of this?

I am not Pashtun.

A large proportion of Pashtuns in Peshawar valley, Swat, Kohat etc are indeed mixed with "Dardic/Indus" populations, especially the Yousafzais of Swat. Indeed, the Swatis themselves are likely a Dardic group that have been Pashtunized. The Pashtun_Kurram population on the chart above that I posted is a Pashtun population that's heavily mixed with "Punjabi biradari" type populations.

This is a good thread for further info on various populations and their distances to ancient Pakistani ones: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...ncient-gandharans-barikot-discoveries.683848/

The users who posted there are probably the best people to speak to for further questions. This is the limit of my understanding of genetics, especially of Pashtuns.

 

[Great Janjua]

@Maula Jatt are there any katal villages left in narowal. We used to have many villages in that area before partition. We still have our own villages in and around samba, pathankot and madhopur here in india. The main village being Katli village in samba. Most of our clansmen who came from pak settled in the Jammu-samba-pathankot-Gurudaspur belt.

Katil or Katal clan was brought up in Sialkot in the Village Katil and from where their roots spring up got their name it is now in Narowal District which still contains a good amount of them in numbers.

Before Partition the main population center of the Katil clan was Shakargarh and Gurdaspur with sprinklings of them in Sialkot and Pathankot most of them were muslims and migrated from Gurdaspur during 1947.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

as a Pakistani
don't care one bit, OP please make different threads, this is repetitive

You and the others who liked your comment have no interest in their own history? bhaiyya kya ertughrul dekhain phir beth kr aur USS pr behes mubahisa krain?

 

[Maula Jatt]

You and the others who liked your comment have no interest in their own history? bhaiyya kya ertughrul dekhain phir beth kr aur USS pr behes mubahisa krain?

I have an interest in my history but I know OP and all the genetics BS, I don't like that
I just like the simple history part without genes crap mixed in

 

[Pak Nationalist]

I have an interest in my history but I know OP and all the genetics BS, I don't like that
I just like the simple history part without genes crap mixed in

Genetics is BS? Our genes are actual maps of where our lineage might come from. What better biological marker to validate archeological and anthropological finds? A strong national identity can be fostered if you find commonalities among people. If genetics give you the means to do that then why look down upon it?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Lmaoooo

You and the others who liked your comment have no interest in their own history? bhaiyya kya ertughrul dekhain phir beth kr aur USS pr behes mubahisa krain?

I liked his comment and I’m Pashtun.

There really is no such thing as “Pakistani” identity. It’s just a nationality. We use Urdu, a language native to India, to talk to each other.

Majority of Pakistanis and Indians have more in common with each other. Similar language, clothes, food. Besides across the Indus and South India.

Pakistanis and Indians consume similar media too.

I genuinely don’t get why there such an effort to make a change in this narrative when people in Pakistan themselves don’t care and are happy with it.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Lmaoooo



I liked his comment and I’m Pashtun.

There really is no such thing as “Pakistani” identity. It’s just a nationality. We use Urdu, a language native to India, to talk to each other.

Majority of Pakistanis and Indians have more in common with each other. Similar language, clothes, food. Besides across the Indus and South India.

Pakistanis and Indians consume similar media too.

I genuinely don’t get why there such an effort to make a change in this narrative when people in Pakistan themselves don’t care and are happy with it.

Happy with what? Living aloof from their history? Ignorance is bliss, right? We consume continental cuisine, speak Angrezi, and consume anglo Saxon media as well, does that make us goras? The discussion is centered around genetics and the differences therein. Genetic makeup is one of the markers of identity. There is an effort because our history has shown that religion alone is not a sturdy enough foundation for building the basis of Pakistani nationalism. Indigenous history and the very blood of inhabitants of Pakistan must bind Pakistanis. I see Pakistan as the first nation-building project of the Indus nations. There is an overarching identity that binds the Indus nations together and makes them distinct from the Gangetics. Why should anyone who is interested in the resolution of Pakistan's identity crisis and assumption of the role as a civilization state/project not back this effort?

 

[Great Janjua]

Lmaoooo



I liked his comment and I’m Pashtun.

There really is no such thing as “Pakistani” identity. It’s just a nationality. We use Urdu, a language native to India, to talk to each other.

Majority of Pakistanis and Indians have more in common with each other. Similar language, clothes, food. Besides across the Indus and South India.

Pakistanis and Indians consume similar media too.

I genuinely don’t get why there such an effort to make a change in this narrative when people in Pakistan themselves don’t care and are happy with it.

Not this retarded Afghandu daydreaming Pakh-toon again he thinks somehow the average Punjabi, and Sindhi have something in common with gangus beyond the Sutlej and Beas rivers.

Yet the average Pathan is not so visibly different either from a Biradri Punjabi.

When you lack in historical and cultural knowledge all you do is blabber shit online.

@lastofthepatriots

Happy with what? Living aloof from their history? Ignorance is bliss, right? We consume continental cuisine, speak Angrezi, and consume anglo Saxon media as well, does that make us goras? The discussion is centered around genetics and the differences therein. Genetic makeup is one of the markers of identity. There is an effort because our history has shown that religion alone is not a sturdy enough foundation for building the basis of Pakistani nationalism. Indigenous history and the very blood of inhabitants of Pakistan must bind Pakistanis. I see Pakistan as the first nation-building project of the Indus nations. There is an overarching identity that binds the Indus nations together and makes them distinct from the Gangetics. Why should anyone who is interested in the resolution of Pakistan's identity crisis and assumption of the role as a civilization state/project not back this effort?

Bro, he is a loru Afghandu Pakhtoon justice warrior the fact is the largest ethnic group of Pakistan the Punjabis have some sort of lineage to their kin across the ravi the rest of Pakistan does not share linkage except for the muhajirs of UP who now reside in Karachi.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Not this retarded Afghandu daydreaming Pakh-toon again he thinks somehow the average Punjabi, and Sindhi have something in common with gangus beyond the Sutlej and Beas rivers.

Yet the average Pathan is not so visibly different either from a Biradri Punjabi.

When you lack in historical and cultural knowledge all you do is blabber shit online.

@lastofthepatriots


Bro, he is a loru Afghandu Pakhtoon justice warrior the fact is the largest ethnic group of Pakistan the Punjabis have some sort of lineage to their kin across the ravi the rest of Pakistan does not share linkage except for the muhajirs of UP who now reside in Karachi.

There are more bhaiiya pathans in India than Punjabis…

Every third Indian Muslim is a Khan.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Not this retarded Afghandu daydreaming Pakh-toon again he thinks somehow the average Punjabi, and Sindhi have something in common with gangus beyond the Sutlej and Beas rivers.

Yet the average Pathan is not so visibly different either from a Biradri Punjabi.

When you lack in historical and cultural knowledge all you do is blabber shit online.

It’s true. Majority of Pakistanis share a lot of similarities with Indians. Similar food and culture. Even the armies dance together

 

[ThunderCat]

An interesting observation. It appears Pakistanis during Iron Age (Vedic times) were genetically closer to modern West Asians than modern Indians. The population genetics data I used are publicly available here. Make of it what you will.

Genetic distance between Iron Age Pakistanis and 4 modern day ethnicities:

Probably agreed for the most part, but one question though: Wasn't the Vedic civilization a Bronze Age civilization?

 

[Maira La]

Probably agreed for the most part, but one question though: Wasn't the Vedic civilization a Bronze Age civilization?

Signs of Indo-Aryan arrival in Pakistan date to around 1300 BC. These samples are dated to between 750 to 1200 BC. Whatever we call it, late BA or early IA, these are the people who created the earliest forms of Vedic culture/religion.

 

[ThunderCat]

Signs of Indo-Aryan arrival in Pakistan date to around 1300 BC. These samples are dated to between 750 to 1200 BC. Whatever we call it, late BA or early IA, these are the people who created the earliest forms of Vedic culture/religion.

That was still considered the late Bronze Age. To my understanding, Indo-Aryan arrivals occured in the 17th century BCE while Iranic arrivals were in the late Bronze Age.

But regardless, the 12th century BCE is still the late Bronze Age.

 

[MastanKhan]

An interesting observation. It appears Pakistanis during Iron Age (Vedic times) were genetically closer to modern West Asians than modern Indians. The population genetics data I used are publicly available here. Make of it what you will.

Genetic distance between Iron Age Pakistanis and 4 modern day ethnicities:
View attachment 900849

Hi,

Even modern day pakistani geography ehtnics fall in the same category---.

 

[Maula Jatt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1603569480512245763

I never say it publicly cause I don't like the backlash

But I always consider people of haryana, Punjab, HP, our people by blood, somewhat similar thinking but with a different religion, kashmir is just pretty us with some differences ofcourse but way too many similarities

Although it's controversial opinion and if someone doesn't like it, it's OK