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[Hack-Hook]

Russian Su-35s Could Soon Be Delivered To Iran, Pilots Trained Last Spring​

U.S. officials say Russian training for Iranian pilots on the Su-35 is part of a deepening relationship spurred on by the conflict in Ukraine.

by Joseph Trevithick | PUBLISHED Dec 9, 2022 6:54 PM

Russian Su-35s Could Soon Be Delivered To Iran, Pilots Trained Last Spring

U.S. officials say Russian training for Iranian pilots on the Su-35 is part of a deepening relationship spurred on by the conflict in Ukraine.

www.thedrive.com

this show how credible the article is

it is no secret that Tehran has been looking to acquire S-400 long-range surface-to-air missile systems for years now.
As with its air force, Iran's air defense network is composed in significant part of aging systems it inherited from the government of the Shah. It also has a relatively small number of newer systems acquired from Russia, including S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries, since the end of the Cold War. The country has produced a number of local designs based on older American and Russian designs, as well.

 

[Sineva]

Any argument over lack of customization is laughable considering the things Russia did for Chinese flankers in early 2000’s (very well documented) as well what China did to their own flankers afterward as modernization effort.

This was also the case with the indian and malaysian flankers as well,which both used a variety of foreign weapon systems and avionics.

 

[Hack-Hook]

This was also the case with the indian and malaysian flankers as well,which both used a variety of foreign weapon systems and avionics.

interestingly can you tell me its how long India is waiting for Russia to provide AESA for Su-30

 

[Sineva]

interestingly can you tell me its how long India is waiting for Russia to provide AESA for Su-30

To the best of my knowledge russia isnt providing any aesa radars for the indian su30 fleet.There was talk of a super flanker upgrade program over a decade ago,but that didnt go anywhere,possibly cost was an issue considering the size of the indian flanker fleet.
The indians have now it seems resurrected the super flanker program and have decided to produce an aesa upgrade themselves.
It does seem that up until fairly recently the indians seemed happy enough with the N011M Bars pesa radar,indeed I have little doubt that iran would`ve been very thankful just to get its hands on the baseline su30s with the same bars pesa radar........if those had ever been offered [LOL!!].
Ultimately tho its not as if iran really has that much to chose from anyway,now does it?.
To me this is rather like irans acquisition of north korean hwasongs [scud copies] during the war of the cities,these were clearly not as good as the soviet originals quality wise,but they did do what they needed them to,and considering that no one else was willing to supply iran with them,well......
All in all tho`,I think that iran could do far,far worse than the su35 as a starting point for the indigenous development of a modern,ie post cold war/21st century,heavy fighter complete with modern avionics and modern weapons systems,indeed one only has to look at what the chinese were able to ultimately achieve using the su30 as a template.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I think that iran could do far,far worse than the su35 as a starting point for the indigenous development of a modern,ie post cold war/21st century,heavy fighter complete with modern avionics and modern weapons systems,indeed one only has to look at what the chinese were able to ultimately achieve using the su30 as a template.

that would be iran indigenous program and airplane , not something subpar bought , that add to iran experience and expertise , buying it wont help at all.
and su-35 can stand against non of the PGCC airforce or israel so buying it is waste of money

 

[Piet]

that would be iran indigenous program and airplane , not something subpar bought , that add to iran experience and expertise , buying it wont help at all.
and su-35 can stand against non of the PGCC airforce or israel so buying it is waste of money

This is a subject that has garnered comments of various kinds. Some are in favor of the Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker E, some are not. If the IRIAF is successful in acquiring this a/c, then it would have to be in sufficient numbers to really impact the air space over Iran. A number of 24 is a little on the lean side. Sixty would be more adequate if achievable.

What can possibly also be considered besides its air-air role is a possible long-range A-G role.

Returning to the probable future Iranian combat a/c. A heavy hunter has been alluded to as well as a ‘heavy’ turbofan. Opinion has it that this engine has already flown in a testbed.

Regarding an F-5 based a/c for Iran’s future combat a/c, this has elicited a measure of dissent as well as positive comments. An AESA FCR radar is still lacking at this time.

I wonder if this can be solved by following the following route: - Consider the Kowsar’s Grifo-346/KLJ-XX/Bayyenat-11 (NRIET – ToT- ed to Iran by China?). This could in turn begat the Grifo-E, or a Chinese-Iranian derivative thereof (viz. Bayyenat-111?). The rest of Kowsar’s EW-suite and other systems should be adequate to be read over to whatever combat a/c eventually emerges.

As the SAAB Gripen JAS-39 has often been invoked here as a possible example of such an a/c, it goes to show what can be achieved by a light-medium wight multi-role a/c.

I hope that the last day of the Kish Air show will render some real clues to this end.

 

[SalarHaqq]

it increase the range of missile , it won't increase the range of detection .

It's the detection range of low observable aircraft which gets increased thanks to the Flankers' high kinetic properties.

and incidentally su-35 can only benefit of it when it use its afterburner , something that reduce its range dramatically , on other hand an aircraft without supercruise capability don't have such problem

Its range is important enough to compensate.

yes but as it must interface with all critical component of airplane , it won't be cheap and it take time. and we must pay twice for it

Not going to be a huge expenditure.

assuming it's capable to deliver.

Russia has spare Su-35's from the stalled Egyptian deal, and yes, Russia is capable of fulfilling orders for fighter jets, it has always been.

there is no money for both , only one and you can take your pick , don't forget the budget to increase the capabilities od all Iranian armed force branches, is about 4 milliard euro , you think how much is for air force?

I addressed this before: additional funds can be released on an ad hoc basis on top of those 4 billion Euros, to fund extraordinary acquisitions.

only if you spend 6-7 milliard dollar on 4x squadron of su-35 there won't be any left for the rest

See above.

i don't doubt that , but he wrote that tweets based on another article

The "Tweets" feature analysis grounded in technical data, they aren't based on any one specific article.

and he also could not answer my concerns about the deal.

Their demonstration is pristine.

hi mistake L-Band with S-band . you can deny it , but the post is out there for anybody to see it
if it was s-band then there was no problem using it for engaging low rcs aircraft as many air defence system around the world use s-band radar

I know of the user's credibility and that's enough for me.

they said the same about su-30

Don't remember Washington regime officials claiming Iranian pilots were receiving training on the Su-30.

this show how credible the article is

it is no secret that Tehran has been looking to acquire S-400 long-range surface-to-air missile systems for years now.
As with its air force, Iran's air defense network is composed in significant part of aging systems it inherited from the government of the Shah. It also has a relatively small number of newer systems acquired from Russia, including S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries, since the end of the Cold War. The country has produced a number of local designs based on older American and Russian designs, as well.

I don't give a hoot about any of the funny assumptions made by the author of the article. The interesting part is where he's citing USA regime officials about Iranian pilots getting trained to operate Su-35 fighter jets in Russia.

The USA regime almost exclusively spreads disinformation when it comes to the Iranian military. On the specific topic of recent Iranian-Russian arms deals though, they seem to have been unusually close to reality so far. When they first declared Iran had sold UAV's to Russia and that these will be put to use in Ukraine, I was convinced it was propaganda. In light of this, their statements about the Su-35, true or not, ought not to be dismissed out of hand. At any rate, this justifies sharing the paper.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It's the detection range of low observable aircraft which gets increased thanks to the Flankers' high kinetic properties.

I believe it has nothing to do with detection , if you say otherwise then explain how

Its range is important enough to compensate.

after using afterburner , its range is not that high anymore

Not going to be a huge expenditure.

if you want to modify a system that interact with all critical components , it gonna be a large expenditure, of both money and time

Russia has spare Su-35's from the stalled Egyptian deal, and yes, Russia is capable of fulfilling orders for fighter jets, it has always been.

that it probably need for itself

I addressed this before: additional funds can be released on an ad hoc basis on top of those 4 billion Euros, to fund extraordinary acquisitions.

can be but when it was released for army , just show me one more time it happened . its in the realm of can be done , but will it be done?

The "Tweets" feature analysis grounded in technical data, they aren't based on any one specific article.

he at the beginning said himself its controversial

I know of the user's credibility and that's enough for me.

everyone knew about Aristotle credibility and it was enough to them to kill anybody opposed his ideas for thousands of years

Don't remember Washington regime officials claiming Iranian pilots were receiving training on the Su-30.

Washington for 40 year claimed Iran is just 6 month away from nuke , they claimed Iraq had WMD , they claimed Iran used Chemical and biological weapon at the time of war with Iraq ,......
do I need to continue , and how you accept Washington claims when they suit you but when others post them you say its lies because it come from Washington and they have an agenda

The interesting part is where he's citing USA regime officials about Iranian pilots getting trained to operate Su-35 fighter jets in Russia.

Washington never was shy of fabricating lies when it suit their Iran fearmongering campaign

When they first declared Iran had sold UAV's to Russia and that these will be put to use in Ukraine, I was convinced it was propaganda.

they at the time said Iran sold ballistic missile to Russia and by the way interesting part is all the date they show on the drones component belong to the month before the war or 1 month of war , I yet to see anything newer and interestingly they made the claim 4-5 month into the war , remained me of the time when Iran out of nowhere announced the presence of Fordow to IAEA according to our NPT obligation , then Washington come and claimed that they were aware of the existence of the facility , Afterwards

 

[jauk]

that would be iran indigenous program and airplane , not something subpar bought , that add to iran experience and expertise , buying it wont help at all.
and su-35 can stand against non of the PGCC airforce or israel so buying it is waste of money

I agree (except for the PG mini-countries--they will never ever engage Iran). However, I simply don't see any clear advantage to Iran purchasing these. A TOT of manufacturization is good but you don't need so many aircraft for this. At the end, I trust IRI's decision making in this regard but I don't see the rationale.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I agree (except for the PG mini-countries--they will never ever engage Iran). However, I simply don't see any clear advantage to Iran purchasing these. A TOT of manufacturization is good but you don't need so many aircraft for this. At the end, I trust IRI's decision making in this regard but I don't see the rationale.

interesting part is that people who talk about benefit of this in studying the aerodynamic of this airplane and engines forget that engine in size of RD-33 are beneficial to Iran and aerodynamic in flankers use the exact same ideas that were used in Mig-29 and we already have access to them but for some reason there is no evidence we using them in our research and development

 

[SalarHaqq]

I believe it has nothing to do with detection , if you say otherwise then explain how

I explained all there was to explain.

after using afterburner , its range is not that high anymore

Great enough under realistic conditions. Patarames knows what they're talking about.

if you want to modify a system that interact with all critical components , it gonna be a large expenditure, of both money and time

No. And such details won't be lost on the author. Observations like the above won't achieve to shed doubt on the author's conclusions.

that it probably need for itself

No hurdle for Russia in supplying clients.

can be but when it was released for army , just show me one more time it happened . its in the realm of can be done , but will it be done?

If Iran's interested in purchasing those fighters and there's enough domestic support for the deal from key decision makers and institutions then funds will be mobilized.

he at the beginning said himself its controversial

Can't find such a mention in the "Tweets".

Patarames is asking three introductory questions, proceeding with a technical demonstration and reaching a conclusion. Their conclusion is that in the worst case scenario, addition of the Su-35 would:

In total:

F-35 surprise deep strikes become more like one-way missions with Su-35, ready to chase down

+ Allowing interceptions at larger distances from Iran's border leading to mission-kill

A massive costly air campaign is necessary to penetrate to Iran's critical sites

No cons mentioned. I'll go with that assessment.

everyone knew about Aristotle credibility and it was enough to them to kill anybody opposed his ideas for thousands of years

The rational view is that all things being equal, the more a person is qualified the more they'll be credible on technical considerations.

Washington for 40 year claimed Iran is just 6 month away from nuke , they claimed Iraq had WMD , they claimed Iran used Chemical and biological weapon at the time of war with Iraq ,......
do I need to continue , and how you accept Washington claims when they suit you but when others post them you say its lies because it come from Washington and they have an agenda

Addressed already. And I take it they did not claim Iranian pilots trained on the Su-30.

Washington never was shy of fabricating lies when it suit their Iran fearmongering campaign

Addressed already.

they at the time said Iran sold ballistic missile to Russia

They declared they cannot confirm.

and by the way interesting part is all the date they show on the drones component belong to the month before the war or 1 month of war , I yet to see anything newer and interestingly they made the claim 4-5 month into the war , remained me of the time when Iran out of nowhere announced the presence of Fordow to IAEA according to our NPT obligation , then Washington come and claimed that they were aware of the existence of the facility , Afterwards

Does not affect the point.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I explained all there was to explain.

which didn't include how a larger kinetic energy help to increase the detection range

Great enough under realistic conditions. Patarames knows what they're talking about.

he didn't made claim about su-35 range

No.

And Patarames knows what they're talking about. Such details won't be lost on them, so observations like these won't achieve to shed doubt on their conclusions.

no

There's no hurdle for Russia in supplying clients.

just the small problem that they are sanctioned for some critical systems and component and they are not managed to fix that problem yet.

If Iran's interested in purchasing those fighters and there's enough domestic support for the deal from key decision makers and institutions then funds will be mobilized.

we will see , the question is if Iran is interested and defence ministry and army were not that enthusiast.

Can't find such a mention in the "Tweets".

Patarames asks introductory questions, proceeds with a technical demonstration and concludes. Their conclusion is that in the worst case scenario, addition of the Su-35 would:

look at his later tweets

No cons mentioned. I will go with that assessment.

if you want to chase them you must use afterburner that increase fuel consumption up to 3 time on AL-41

The rational view is that all things being equal, the more a person is qualified the more they'll be credible on purely technical subjects.

show you must never stop questioning those qualified persons , they are not God , they make mistakes

 

[SalarHaqq]

which didn't include how a larger kinetic energy help to increase the detection range

It did.

he didn't made claim about su-35 range

So read them again.

no

I'd beg to differ.

just the small problem that they are sanctioned for some critical systems and component and they are not managed to fix that problem yet.

Speculation is what this amounts to.

we will see , the question is if Iran is interested and defence ministry and army were not that enthusiast.

Public declarations or absence thereof do not necessarily offer an adequate reflection of the deliberations taking place among decision making circles, especially when considering defence and security issues. The simple answer is no outsider knows enough to make strong inferences.

if you want to chase them you must use afterburner that increase fuel consumption up to 3 time on AL-41

The mere fact that afterburner usage increases fuel consumption up to three times, does not mean this would preclude effective chasing under circumstances relevant to the defence of Iranian airspace. Many more parameters would need to be taken into account and calculations made. The notion that the Su-35 would be incapable of effectively putting to use its aerodynamic properties in an air to air engagement because of increased fuel consumption is, for all practical purposes, ruled out by Patarames' conclusions.

show you must never stop questioning those qualified persons , they are not God , they make mistakes

Objections presented thus far did not strike me as convincing. Nor were they as comprehensive and encompassing in their approach.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

The S-35 is excellent combat aircraft and much more technological than detractors think. Many imbecility are said about the S-35 here on this forum. To read their words, it looks like they built and piloted the plane, a real joke

 

[Iraqi soldier]

Iran must have a from Russian
And technology from Chinese