IRIAF | News and Discussions

[tsunset]

Iran should stop trusting China and Russia.

Russia never delivers, can someone tell me what "major" weapon or system Russia delivered to Iran after the S-300PMU2s, beside AK guns and small arms?

Egypt, Indonesia, Algeria and many others can buy over the counter Russian jets and systems and gets delivered like mentioned in their contracts.

But Iran has to get a coupon that authorizes it to get delivered (sending drones to Russia and discount crude oil trade) but still nothing delivered or made.

Russia will undoubtedly backstab Iran and 99% never deliver anything, they only care about their own interests (naturally like any country) and if the money comes.

For China, their current strategy is to squeeze countries victim of white imperialism. China never pays for Iranian crude oil and even talk bad on Iran and delivers ballistic missiles to Saudi Arabia, don't respect their contracts with Iran, what kind of strategic coop is that?

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Iran should stop trusting China and Russia.

Russia never delivers, can someone tell me what "major" weapon or system Russia delivered to Iran after the S-300PMU2s, beside AK guns and small arms?

Egypt, Indonesia, Algeria and many others can buy over the counter Russian jets and systems and gets delivered like mentioned in their contracts.

But Iran has to get a coupon that authorizes it to get delivered (sending drones to Russia and discount crude oil trade) but still nothing delivered or made.

Russia will undoubtedly backstab Iran and 99% never deliver anything, they only care about their own interests (naturally like any country) and if the money comes.

For China, their current strategy is to squeeze countries victim of white imperialism. China never pays for Iranian crude oil and even talk bad on Iran and delivers ballistic missiles to Saudi Arabia, don't respect their contracts with Iran, what kind of strategic coop is that?

Ofcourse they think about their own interests and are slow in projects or even leave projects. But still there are more common interests which bring Iran, China and Russia closer to each other compared to other countries. Iran works with Russia on nuclear and transit projects and now also on defence. There are some common interests in Caspian sea, central Asia as well. However Iran knows that they can't trust them blindly, but we've to work together where interests align.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It did.

are you 4 year old ?

The mere fact that afterburner usage increases fuel consumption up to three times, does not mean this would preclude effective chasing under circumstances relevant to the defence of Iranian airspace. Many more parameters would need to be taken into account and calculations made. The notion that the Su-35 would be incapable of effectively putting to use its aerodynamic properties in an air to air engagement because of increased fuel consumption is, for all practical purposes, ruled out by Patarames' conclusions.

that aerodynamic properties do nothing if you can't get a lock on enemy and both IBRIS-E and OLS-35 are outdated

 

[strateger]

Iran's F-4s are over 50 years old now. How much longer can Iran continue to use them ? Until they're 60 years old ? 70 years old ? The US is about to retire its fleet of F-22s. Fighter jets are only meant to be used for 20-30 years. Airframes and parts can only last for so long, they can only take so much wear and tear before they break down completely.

With all due respect, you misunderstood what I was suggesting. Iran needs to produce brand new F4, MIG-21, and SU-22 airframes, with brand new and composite materials. Russia needs to provide blue-prints for AL-21 engines (which is basically a Russian J79) and the SU-22 and MIG-21 airframe. These are relatively simple airframes compared to many others. Iran should have no trouble making SU-22's and MIG-21 airframes and Russia should give Iran the AL-21 engine and the R-11, both a large delivery of the engines and the instructions on how to manufacture and maintain them.

Iran can then put modern weapons systems, radars, avionics, HUD displays, etc on them. These are all Mach 2 aircraft.

They would have an inexpensive fleet of brand new, simple, and reliable jets that can carry all of Iran's smart bombs, cruise missiles, glide bombs, etc. Nothing else is needed or effective.

China was making J7's until 2015 and still have many in service. It's an incredibly effective airframe.

 

[925boy]

Iran should stop trusting China and Russia.

Russia never delivers, can someone tell me what "major" weapon or system Russia delivered to Iran after the S-300PMU2s, beside AK guns and small arms?

Egypt, Indonesia, Algeria and many others can buy over the counter Russian jets and systems and gets delivered like mentioned in their contracts.

But Iran has to get a coupon that authorizes it to get delivered (sending drones to Russia and discount crude oil trade) but still nothing delivered or made.

Russia will undoubtedly backstab Iran and 99% never deliver anything, they only care about their own interests (naturally like any country) and if the money comes.

For China, their current strategy is to squeeze countries victim of white imperialism. China never pays for Iranian crude oil and even talk bad on Iran and delivers ballistic missiles to Saudi Arabia, don't respect their contracts with Iran, what kind of strategic coop is that?

You sound like you work for the french govt, seriously.

 

[tsunset]

You sound like you work for the french govt, seriously.

First it was that I'm a salesman of Rosoboronexport for arguing about Su-35 and Ka-52 with @Hack-Hook, Now i work for the french govt? What did i pushed for that would benefit France lol, you can look at my post history and i am actually for Iran to get Su-35s, I'm only pointing out that Russia never delivered something for more than a decade and are not serious at all, as well as getting pressure by the US in the past and China doesn't pay for crude

And now that Netanyahu, a Putin's friend is back, you can only expect that Russia will deliver nothing or even worse

 

[Indos]

that aerodynamic properties do nothing if you can't get a lock on enemy and both IBRIS-E and OLS-35 are outdated

Still much better than current Iranian fighters

Indonesia keeps operating its Sukhoi and Finance Minister has agreed to refurbishment and upgrade of our Sukhoi with around 200 million USD package. This plane is very beneficial for long range operation, showing present around Iranian territory and will be able to make deathly naval attack

Indonesian Sukhoi

KH 29 test

---------------------------------

SU 35 Cockpit

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604058972969144321

 

[Hack-Hook]

Still much better than current Iranian fighters

Indonesia keeps operating its Sukhoi and Finance Minister has agreed to refurbishment and upgrade of our Sukhoi with around 200 million USD package. This plane is very beneficial for long range operation, showing present around Iranian territory and will be able to make deathly naval attack

Indonesian Sukhoi

View attachment 906506
View attachment 906507
View attachment 906508

KH 29 test

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SU 35 Cockpit

View attachment 906509

maybe good for indonesia because it has no indigenous aircraft program , we have one , we are now at the place many countries were.
in70-80 many countries indigenous program was shutdown because they choose the easier path and went after F-16 & F-18 two country choose their indigenous program and didn't let corrupt politician and bribery destroy their indigenous program , they are France and Sweden .
we are exactly at same junction in our aviation history , buy Su-35 or invest in our indigenous program and refine Kowsar design . it's now we must decide what route we choose , France Route or Canada route ?
I personally prefer France route .

 

[Indos]

maybe good for indonesia because it has no indigenous aircraft program , we have one , we are now at the place many countries were.
in70-80 many countries indigenous program was shootdown because they choose the easier path and went after F-16 & F-18 two country choose their indigenous program and didn't let corrupt politician and bribery destroy their indigenous program , they are France and Sweden .
we are exactly at same junction in our aviation history , buy Su-35 or invest in our indigenous program and refine Kowsar design . it's now we must decide what route we choose , France Route or Canada route ?
I personally prefer France route .

Refine Kowsar design ? You think refining Kowsar design will make you have 5 generation fighter design ?

Indonesia is not overly ambitious, we are currently junior partner in KF21 program. We understand our limitation. We prefer making N219 with much less cost then making our own 5 generation fighter without any partner. Next program is R80 inshaAllah as basic design has already been near complete

Unlike military plane, civilian planes dont have requirement in term of STEALTH and others, so when you make one, you are likely be able to sell the same plane for 100 years with limited modification improvement along every 10 years. Business wise, it is quite profitable.

Despite Indonesia has KF21 program, we still buy around 6 Rafale planes and will likely buy more until the planes have 1 squadron (18 planes) or 2 squadrons (12 planes each).

Your government has already decided to get those SU35. With Iran already big defense budget, I believe that SU35 acquisition will not jeopardize Iran aerospace program. Oil price will likely keep high while Iran SU 35 acquisition is also conducted in barter scheme with Russia

Indonesia defense budget is only 9 billion USD

 

[Messerschmitt]

Still much better than current Iranian fighters

Indonesia keeps operating its Sukhoi and Finance Minister has agreed to refurbishment and upgrade of our Sukhoi with around 200 million USD package. This plane is very beneficial for long range operation, showing present around Iranian territory and will be able to make deathly naval attack

Iran’s main interest in the Su-35 is its role as an interceptor, to reinforce/extend the reach of its IADS. Strike missions are mainly, but not exclusively, the job of Iran’s BM forces. Though also here the Su-35 could come in handy and provide additional attack vectors and situational awareness. The fighter jet’s kinetic performance and ability to perform long-range missions, as you mentioned, is of great value for a country the size or Iran.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Refine Kowsar design ? You think refining Kowsar design will make you have 5 generation fighter design ?

su-35 is not a 5th generation fighter and 24 Egyptian ones add nothing new to our air-force capability , only stunt development of kowsar.

Your government has already decided to get those SU35.

no if you followed the news yo would have saw that Defense ministry was opposed to it , Army was opposed to it , our supreme leader guidelines are against it .
only one old air-force general was interested in it and tanks God they won't make the decision . that is a lot different from what you implied by "your government has already decided to get those SU-35" comment

With Iran already big defense budget

you don't knew about Iran defense budget , its even less than Qatar and UAE , also that number mostly go for paying wages and maintaining current capabilities , last year Iran budget for increase military capabilities for all branches of armed force was 4 milliard $ , those 4 milliard go to IRGC, Army and basij , the part that go to army must be divided between air-force , Navy and ground force and air defense forces . now tell me how much of that big defense budget you think will be put aside for Air Force , how we can buy anything with that money , without getting it from our foreign currency strategic reserves and how long it take to replace it , how we will be able to continue our indigenous program after buying those 24 already outdated airplane that nobody wants ?

The fighter jet’s kinetic performance and ability to perform long-range missions

can you explain to us what you mean by Kinetic performance ?

 

[Indos]

su-35 is not a 5th generation fighter and 24 Egyptian ones add nothing new to our air-force capability , only stunt development of kowsar.

no if you followed the news yo would have saw that Defense ministry was opposed to it , Army was opposed to it , our supreme leader guidelines are against it .
only one old air-force general was interested in it and tanks God they won't make the decision . that is a lot different from what you implied by "your government has already decided to get those SU-35" comment

you don't knew about Iran defense budget , its even less than Qatar and UAE , also that number mostly go for paying wages and maintaining current capabilities , last year Iran budget for increase military capabilities for all branches of armed force was 4 milliard $ , those 4 milliard go to IRGC, Army and basij , the part that go to army must be divided between air-force , Navy and ground force and air defense forces . now tell me how much of that big defense budget you think will be put aside for Air Force , how we can buy anything with that money , without getting it from our foreign currency strategic reserves and how long it take to replace it , how we will be able to continue our indigenous program after buying those 24 already outdated airplane that nobody wants ?

If that is the case then I cannot argue any more. Future challenge is not about 4 gen fighters any more. This has been shown in latest Pitch Black exercise in Australia this year with 6 Singaporean F15 SG can be eliminated by just 2 Australian F35 where those 6 F15SG cannot even detect 2 Australian F35 until the missile reach the plane (simulation).

I would like to see Iran has China J 20 Dragon then SU 35 if Iran is able to acquire it

 

[OldTwilight]

If we can , we should buy su-35 or even pakfa ...

Even by operating 4++ fighter, we can learn a lot

 

[TheImmortal]

If that is the case then I cannot argue any more. Future challenge is not about 4 gen fighters any more. This has been shown in latest Pitch Black exercise in Australia this year with 6 Singaporean F15 SG can be eliminated by just 2 Australian F35 where those 6 F15SG cannot even detect 2 Australian F35 until the missile reach the plane (simulation).

I would like to see Iran has China J 20 Dragon then SU 35 if Iran is able to acquire it

Zero chance Iran can acquire J-20.

Look at Pakistan for indication what Iran could try to get. Pakistan has a much closer military/arms relationship with China than Iran ever will.

JF-31 might be for export, but I doubt Chinese would export J-20 even to Pakistan.

Iran likely can’t get either so it doesn’t even matter.