IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

That will be 20 missile
I doubt that's a feasible air defense it can be saturated easily.
then those 90 aircraft and 20+ drone will be sitting dock

One Jericho missile with a cluster warhead and those aircraft are toast. Depending on distance, Israeli Fateh missile (LORA) could also be used.

If they use aircraft then Israel doesn’t need to get near the base. They will drop their bombs (CMs) over the Mediterranean.

Bavar-373 won’t be able to engage fighters due to intense air traffic in that corridor. Syria tried it and it ended up hitting a Russian SIGNIT/ELINT aircraft. Israel is known to use other aircraft as shields.

So air defense will just play defense trying to shoot down as many CMs it can. Same thing Syria does.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Bavar-373 won’t be able to engage fighters due to intense air traffic in that corridor. Syria tried it and it ended up hitting a Russian SIGNIT/ELINT aircraft. Israel is known to use other aircraft as shields.

wasn't that S200 handiwork , I believe Bavar is more thorough in distinguishing targets compared to s200

One Jericho missile with a cluster warhead and those aircraft are toast. Depending on distance, Israeli Fateh missile (LORA) could also be used.

cluster warhead , are good if the base park aircraft on the runway, if they are in shelter those cluster munition are not that effective

 

[drmeson]

One Jericho missile with a cluster warhead and those aircraft are toast. Depending on distance, Israeli Fateh missile (LORA) could also be used.

Kheibar Shikan with thermobaric munition warhead and Ramat David Airfield (from where they attack mostly) is toast?

Cluster munitions do not work on hardened sheltered aircrafts.

If they use aircraft then Israel doesn’t need to get near the base. They will drop their bombs (CMs) over the Mediterranean.

SU-24/22 even Kowsar with its SAR look down shoot down radar can drop SOWs over Syrian airspace to enter Israel.

Ever wondered Why SyAAF never returns fire to an Israeli jet?. Hint: The answer is strategic, not tactical. Even if we give Syria Su-57, they will still be reluctant to chase Israeli planes.

Bavar-373 won’t be able to engage fighters due to intense air traffic in that corridor. Syria tried it and it ended up hitting a Russian SIGNIT/ELINT aircraft. Israel is known to use other aircraft as shields.

SyAAD does not use Bavar-373. For all we know about Iran learning about aerial defence tactics from experience, Bavar-373 can filter real targets from clutter very quickly. But it is not about the Air defense missiles battery alone. Its about strategy. They have no long-range search radar, no Jammer or ECCM package, Their tracking radars are mostly stand-alone entities. They do not have the slightest network-centric AD layers that Iran uses. Even with that Israelis use SOWS and stay away from aerial conflicts.

 

[TheImmortal]

wasn't that S200 handiwork , I believe Bavar is more thorough in distinguishing targets compared to s200

Doesn’t matter Iran will not send a missile into civilian plane corridor. The risk of miscalculation or the seeker locking on wrong target will be disastrous political consequences.

cluster warhead , are good if the base park aircraft on the runway, if they are in shelter those cluster munition are not that effective

Shelters for 90 aircraft and 20+ drones? Now you are just talking fantasy.

And LORA can also use TV guidance so the operator can drop it in front of shelter and blast will immobilize the aircraft. Don’t even need to completely destroy.

Kheibar Shikan with thermobaric munition warhead and Ramat David Airfield (from where they attack mostly) is toast?

Hundreds (if not thousands) of air strikes on Iranian sites in syria including drone base at T4 that lead to deaths of IRGC and Iran never struck a single Israeli airbase in return. So yes Iran has assets to strike Israeli bases, but political reality is different story.

Cluster munitions do not work on hardened sheltered aircrafts.

You aren’t hiding all 90 aircraft + 20 drone in sheltered bases. That would be a massive airbase, most airbases don’t have nearly that many sheltered bunkers (12-36).

Most are parked in open with some distance put in between them.

SU-24/22 even Kowsar with its SAR look down shoot down radar can drop SOWs over Syrian airspace to enter Israel.

Political reality is different

Ever wondered Why SyAAF never returns fire to an Israeli jet?. Hint: The answer is strategic, not tactical. Even if we give Syria Su-57, they will still be reluctant to chase Israeli planes.

SyAAF is ancient with soviet era planes that lack basic armaments. They never even received the Yak-130’s they ordered from Russia. (Russian unreliability)

SyAAF just doesn’t have the capacity to fight F-16’s of Israeli airforce. And it’s air defense has fired many times on jets, but when S-200 and Buk-M1 are your main long range air defenses than you aren’t gonna do much. Syrian S-300 is operated under Russian leadership and they won’t allow firing on Israeli planes.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

It is incredible delirium here on this forum. I can clearly say that you don't know much about war tactics. The Iranian army does not need your advice your half truth and erroneous perception. It's staggering to read you, I don't participate much in this forum that I have been following for years. But things are distinguished here, you go around in circles and you are very bad war tacticians.

I trust real people on the Iranian army and their tactical genius demonstrated during the Iran-Iraq war. Your living room analysis is really painful.

The new Tor Iranian system is much closer to M2 than M1. To say the opposite is completely of total demagoguery. And for the S 300 I.R, it was modified and Iran does not need Russia's permission to use it. For the moment, I have the other bullshit I read here.

And well done to Iran to keep the F-4 and especially the F-4 SM (Super improve which will be very misleading for the enemy and very useful in the integrated defense start on. The F-4 SM can-and Consider as a new heavy hunter at 50 %. Never forget who have redone the complete cell and this detail to analyze

And never forget that Iran announced the construction of a heavy hunter in 2020. The question is: how can you do a heavy hunter without new engines? I have the answer: the new engine is ready and was tested in the F4 SM and having made a new cell is far from trivial. It is rich in teaching and rational deduction. The heavy hunter of Iran was done through the tries of the F-4 SM and the new technologies devolved for the Kowsar, it is very very logical and unavoidable. It is an economic question and time saving too.

 

[drmeson]

It is incredible delirium here on this forum. I can clearly say that you don't know much about war tactics. The Iranian army does not need your advice your half truth and erroneous perception. It's staggering to read you, I don't participate much in this forum that I have been following for years. But things are distinguished here, you go around in circles and you are very bad war tacticians.

I trust real people on the Iranian army and their tactical genius demonstrated during the Iran-Iraq war. Your living room analysis is really painful.

The new Tor Iranian system is much closer to M2 than M1. To say the opposite is completely of total demagoguery. And for the S 300 I.R, it was modified and Iran does not need Russia's permission to use it. For the moment, I have the other bullshit I read here.

And well done to Iran to keep the F-4 and especially the F-4 SM (Super improve which will be very misleading for the enemy and very useful in the integrated defense start on. The F-4 SM can-and Consider as a new heavy hunter at 50 %. Never forget who have redone the complete cell and this detail to analyze

And never forget that Iran announced the construction of a heavy hunter in 2020. The question is: how can you do a heavy hunter without new engines? I have the answer: the new engine is ready and was tested in the F4 SM and having made a new cell is far from trivial. It is rich in teaching and rational deduction. The heavy hunter of Iran was done through the tries of the F-4 SM and the new technologies devolved for the Kowsar, it is very very logical and unavoidable. It is an economic question and time saving too.

Friend when you talk of certain "F-4SM" Do you mean these upgraded F-4E/D ?

 

[TheImmortal]

And for the S 300 I.R, it was modified and Iran does not need Russia's permission to use it.

I was talking about Syrian owned S-300 NOT Iranian. Since your reading comprehension is so low you can’t even understand the difference you shouldn’t involve yourself in the conversation much less give your opinion.

Rest of your post is absolute nonsense like always since it has nothing to do with “hypothetical airbase scenario” we were talking about. Just your usual rants about F-4, which again we weren’t even talking about.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Doesn’t matter Iran will not send a missile into civilian plane corridor. The risk of miscalculation or the seeker locking on wrong target will be disastrous political consequences.

all systems that use Sayyad missile can distinguish civilian aircraft from from military ones , S-200 cant . and if we are confident in sending it over Persians gulf and be sure it hit the drone not spy plane or any jetliner there we are not shying about using it over Mediterranean sea

Shelters for 90 aircraft and 20+ drones? Now you are just talking fantasy.

And LORA can also use TV guidance so the operator can drop it in front of shelter and blast will immobilize the aircraft. Don’t even need to completely destroy.

why not, that's what shelters are and honestly that's why i say you must disperse your equipment , concentration is always bad news
and then if they throw it in front of shelter , goes the benefit of cluster warhead

 

[TheImmortal]

all systems that use Sayyad missile can distinguish civilian aircraft from from military ones , S-200 cant . and if we are confident in sending it over Persians gulf and be sure it hit the drone not spy plane or any jetliner there we are not shying about using it over Mediterranean Sea

Global Hawk was engaged 75KM from Iranian shore, in Iranian water/airspace in early hours of the night.

Different story sending a missile 300KM into crowded international airspace/waters with no NOTAM.

All one needs to look at is previous Iranian actions to realize that is not part of Iranian calculus of likely actions they would take.

If you check IntelSky’s Twitter you can see how many times a day Israeli’s jets are in Mediterranean. Constantly. So you will not know which one of those trips they are dropping payloads and which ones they are merely patrolling or doing intelligence gathering or mock runs. By the time radars detect the CMs reliably there is a
chance they are back in Israeli airspace.

why not, that's what shelters are and honestly that's why i say you must disperse your equipment , concentration is always bad news

We are talking about a realistic Iranian airbase in Syria. 90 shelters is not realistic. Ask yourself what is biggest airbase in Iran itself? Then ask how many reinforced shelters that base has?

And if you are gonna build such a mega airbase in Syria, you would need a lot more than 2 Bavar systems and a handful of TOR-M1.

and then if they throw it in front of shelter , goes the benefit of cluster warhead

Maybe I explained poorly. I ment to say that for shelters an option is for TV guided LORA to be used (used in Armenian-Azeri war to strike a bridge) and for large scale bombardment Jericho with cluster warhead would be used. Again hypothetical. Maybe Israel decides to use its long range stand off munitions, I’m not sure.

Most reinforced shelters are open air underneath with exit and entrance exposed thus CMs and precision guided bombs try to hit the openings rather than pierce the “shell”. An aircraft is very sensitive, all it needs is some shrapnel damage to render it needing extensive maintenance.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Global Hawk was engaged 75KM from Iranian shore, in Iranian water/airspace in early hours of the night.

75km away what is the difference if it was in Iran space or out of it where it concern our discussion, and day and night is not that important , do you think at night air traffic over Persian gulf will become lighter.

Different story sending a missile 300KM into crowded international airspace/waters with no NOTAM.

not much different . S-200 had the problem of locking on wrong target , S-300 or Bavar or 3rd of Khordad don't have the same problem.
different missile , different guidance , different capabilities

If you check IntelSky’s Twitter you can see how many times a day Israeli’s jets are in Mediterranean. Constantly. So you will not know which one of those trips they are dropping payloads and which ones they are merely patrolling or doing intelligence gathering or mock runs. By the time radars detect the CMs reliably there is a
chance they are back in Israeli airspace.

really not important , in Syria if it was up to me and I had a modern air defense system that actually could hit target , for each of their attacks , I'd have hit one the same number of patrolling jets over Mediterranean and I would have not cared if it was the jets who do the attack or not , simply , tit for tat . if they don't honor cease fire why should I honor it. instead of letting them dictate the rule of war I'd have dictated it
Syrian problem is that they don't have the will to fight and they don't have the equipment to do so .

We are talking about a realistic Iranian airbase in Syria. 90 shelters is not realistic. Ask yourself what is biggest airbase in Iran itself? Then ask how many reinforced shelters that base has?

And if you are gonna build such a mega airbase in Syria, you would need a lot more than 2 Bavar systems and a handful of TOR-M1.

even for a small airbase you need more than 2 tor system and if you cant do shit to protect your asset don't concentrate them in one place disperse them so you can protect them or if one get attacked the rest can retaliate

Global Hawk was engaged 75KM from Iranian shore, in Iranian water/airspace in early hours of the night.

Different story sending a missile 300KM into crowded international airspace/waters with no NOTAM.

All one needs to look at is previous Iranian actions to realize that is not part of Iranian calculus of likely actions they would take.

If you check IntelSky’s Twitter you can see how many times a day Israeli’s jets are in Mediterranean. Constantly. So you will not know which one of those trips they are dropping payloads and which ones they are merely patrolling or doing intelligence gathering or mock runs. By the time radars detect the CMs reliably there is a
chance they are back in Israeli airspace.




We are talking about a realistic Iranian airbase in Syria. 90 shelters is not realistic. Ask yourself what is biggest airbase in Iran itself? Then ask how many reinforced shelters that base has?

And if you are gonna build such a mega airbase in Syria, you would need a lot more than 2 Bavar systems and a handful of TOR-M1.



Maybe I explained poorly. I ment to say that for shelters an option is for TV guided LORA to be used (used in Armenian-Azeri war to strike a bridge) and for large scale bombardment Jericho with cluster warhead would be used. Again hypothetical. Maybe Israel decides to use its long range stand off munitions, I’m not sure.

Most reinforced shelters are open air underneath with exit and entrance exposed thus CMs and precision guided bombs try to hit the openings rather than pierce the “shell”. An aircraft is very sensitive, all it needs is some shrapnel damage to render it needing extensive maintenance.

modern shelters are not open in front , what you describe are relics from the free fall bomb eras

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

I was talking about SyrianNOT Iranian. Since your reading comprehension is so low you can’t even understand the difference you shouldn’t involve yourself in the conversation much less give your opinion.

Rest of your post is absolute nonsense like always since it has nothing to do with “hypothetical airbase scenario” we were talking about. Just your usual rants about F-4, which again we weren’t even talking about.

You are an intellectual turnip without intuition with a sense of war strategy. Stay in the garden with your colleagues, it's a lot for you. I am not talking about opinion but of facts and observation and I have been following the development of the Iranian army for several years. You don't know Iran yet is always more advanced than their public ads

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Friend when you talk of certain "F-4SM" Do you mean these upgraded F-4E/D ?

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F- 4 SM with a new cell and much more.

Iran works in gradation and logical experimentation behind scene to manufacture their heavy hunter through the Kowsar and these F4 SM. The Iranians work in the right way and their approach is very logical. The announcement of the new heavy hunter in 2020 is the logical continuation of these experimentation. And how many new F-4 SM cells have been built?

I still repeat my question: can you build a new heavy hunter without an engine? And when you know that Iran is technological advance on their announcement processes then we understand their ways of doing better.

 

[drmeson]

4 of the total 6 in the same photo.

These testbeds arguably provided the following to Kowsar program

- Electronic actuations and FBW. Without it this plane would not have flown.
- Alloy-Composite Tails, wings
- HESA built automatic landing gear system
- Knowledge of creating an entire airframe from scratch, even though these 6 themselves were rebuilt from structural parts from Vietnam, Ethiopian purchased airframes.
- Cockpit and avionics layout (not radars)
- Sarir ejection seats
- If Kowsar-II gets the V tail then it would be also from Saeqeh
- Local pylons (Kowsar used the same pylon design for SDP-1 like munition in recent pic)
- PMMU Canopies
- Elongation of nose cone for larger antenna radar accomodation (3-766)

If the aerial evaluation has been completed, its time to keep the 2 for HESA museum .. 3-7366 (first born Saeqeh-1) and 3-7182 (Only Saeqeh-II) and rest should be dismantled to create a repository of readily available parts to energize the future Kowsar-I/II fleet. Same should be done to the entire F-5E/F fleet (60 Aircrafts). IRIAF knows the value of spare parts in hand to keep the aircrafts in the air at full potential. One can have a 100 aircraft strong fleet of F/A-22 but if parts are not their the fleet is gonna be useless.

 

[drmeson]

F- 4 SM with a new cell and much more.

Iran works in gradation and logical experimentation behind scene to manufacture their heavy hunter through the Kowsar and these F4 SM. The Iranians work in the right way and their approach is very logical. The announcement of the new heavy hunter in 2020 is the logical continuation of these experimentation. And how many new F-4 SM cells have been built?

I still repeat my question: can you build a new heavy hunter without an engine? And when you know that Iran is technological advance on their announcement processes then we understand their ways of doing better.

Not sure what you mean by new cell?

The aircraft in your picture is a famous IACI "Dowran' upgraded F-4E (also included D) with Chinese CATIC assistance, that was shown in Kish airshow years back. This was IRIAF's attempt at having a 60-70 x strong fleet of JH-7 equivalent heavy A2G and AShCM attack fighters. I dont know if they officially called F-4SM or not but the following details came out in the Airshow and later in some aviation magazines:

- New Multimode Pulse Doppler Radar with strong resemblance to JL-10A based upon T/R element count. 150 km Search range with strong SAR mode for ground attack, what JH-7 of PLAAF fly with.

- Installation of IEI TACAN, INS, (Tacan antenna noticeable in the rib)
- Mutliple LCD
- IEI U/VHF radios
- Installation of Chaff/Flare Dispenser (Noticeable in Pics)

- New Armaments
Noor (Local C-704 TOT) Tested
Ghader AShCM (Further derivation of C-803) Tested
PL-12 (Never been seen)

No info exists on whether this plan was for the entire fleet of 64 aircraft or just the stationed at Bandar Abbas, Bushehr, and Chabahar were upgraded. With IRGC's missiles getting more sophisticated and accurate, these attack aircraft will lose their value with time.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Noor (Local C-704 TOT) Tested

thats c-802

No info exists on whether this plan was for the entire fleet of 64 aircraft or just the stationed at Bandar Abbas, Bushehr, and Chabahar were upgraded. With IRGC's missiles getting more sophisticated and accurate, these attack aircraft will lose their value with time.

I doubt that