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lol bro never anticipate the AF actions:
i really don't know what to say. US has not this much of ongoing projects.:yes2::yes2::drag:
I remember Sofreh mahi project since before RQ170 capturing.
Secondly I think, we shouldn't look at these fighters as projects that have aim to end as main Iran fighter for air force.
first they divide aviation technologies to several smaller steps then they create several projects to reach to each step and prove local technology abilities to use on main project later.

clearly we can not reach F22 technology from zilch, first we must pass and go through steps which USA pass through last century of its aviation industry.

The first thing that we need is good and liable engine.
 
I remember Sofreh mahi project since before RQ170 capturing.
Secondly I think, we shouldn't look at these fighters as projects that have aim to end as main Iran fighter for air force.
first they divide aviation technologies to several smaller steps then they create several projects to reach to each step and prove local technology abilities to use on main project later.

clearly we can not reach F22 technology from zilch, first we must pass and go through steps which USA pass through last century of its aviation industry.

The first thing that we need is good and liable engine.
bro right now air force has become only R&D and sadly they don't inform the people of results and thats depressing.

AIM-23 sedjil semi-active radar homming missile loaded on a IRIAF F-14. photo belongs to the iran-iraq war era. sedjil has a range of 75-90km. during the war an f-14 successfully hit an iraqi mig-29 with one sedjil missile. IRIAF still has a large stockpile of these missiles and upgraded them during past decades.

an amazing leaf of our AF history. this wreckage you see is an f-4 phantom that after the war due to the major damages (over 80%) it had AF considered it beyond the repair. but years later because of the force needs they tried to fix it and as you can see the succeeded in their mission. hope it settles the dispute that we are or not able to make an f-4.
 
lol bro never anticipate the AF actions:
i really don't know what to say. US has not this much of ongoing projects.:yes2::yes2::drag:

Is an RC plane supposed to impress me?

There are amateur RC enthusiasts who fly F-22 and F-35 RC planes. But that doesn’t mean they can build a real one in real life much less a production line.

A F-313 RC toy means nothing and the heads of IAF would probably laugh at the project. Hence why it has gone nowhere, AF refuses to even consider the F-313 for its needs. It’s in limbo, like every fighter project before it Shafagh/Borhan/Kowsar/etc.
 
Is an RC plane supposed to impress me?

There are amateur RC enthusiasts who fly F-22 and F-35 RC planes. But that doesn’t mean they can build a real one in real life much less a production line.

A F-313 RC toy means nothing and the heads of IAF would probably laugh at the project. Hence why it has gone nowhere, AF refuses to even consider the F-313 for its needs. It’s in limbo, like every fighter project before it Shafagh/Borhan/Kowsar/etc.
i don't expect you to get impressed by that rc model but anyone would get impressed by numerous projects that AF pursues. scale model flight is one of the steps to produce a fighter.
 
i don't expect you to get impressed by that rc model but anyone would get impressed by numerous projects that AF pursues. scale model flight is one of the steps to produce a fighter.

You do realize with a little money you could do the same thing? Doesn’t mean anything, other than an engineer had some time on his hands.

Shafagh project was much further along than this and still got axed.

I was one of the few that didn’t expect F-313 to see much results until at least a decade after it was announced.

But the issue here is the way this project has been covered up and politicized, unfortunately I don’t think it’s going anywhere anymore. One prototype was made and likely to quell international embarrassment that The mock up caused.

Iran also did this with an attack helicopter, made a poster and a prototype of it then nothing was heard of it again.

Since then every military official skirts the question of F-313 which is not good. You compare that to B-373 which at the very least commanders actually answer the question when addressed about it.
 
there is no reason to state the sea level max speed. i asked about this from a pilot he said if you increase the payload of a plane it's max speed and service ceiling decreases. he said every MFD in kowsar weights almost 10-20 kg consider the two sit configuration and heavy radar... seems right to me. it's like they put a mk-82 in f-5 airframe:partay::partay:
also he said the reason AF concentrated on the basic f-5 design instead of saeqeh is the same weight issue.
There are milions examples actualy where company declare max speed on sea level,in fact that was standard testing atlitude where aircraft top speed is tested,high atlitude max speed is many time just calculated based on that data,reason for this is fact that low altitude flight is most difficult for aircraft....speed on ohter altitudes can be calculated based on that.Companies uses high altitude top speed mostly due the fact that aircraft top speed on that altitude is much higher than on sea level and as that much better for marketing..but you can always find data for sea level for any aircraft,high altitude speed is mostly tested on 30.000-36.000ft and in all cases declared along with speed.
I saw on many places that members are talking about kowsar speed but no one knows for which altitude is that speed.Aircraft max speed is never declared as x.x mach ..it is always declared x.x mach for high altiude or sea level..So,if there is somewhere data for kowsar max. speed there must be also declared at what altitude,I know only that it makes no sense for aircraft that use better and lighter materials and weights less to be slower...thus F-5 max speed on sea level match perfectly Kowsar declared top speed,F-5 max. speed at low atlitude is also 1.2 mach.
What I read was actualy quite oposite,they said Kowsar perfomance is incrased because they used better and lighter materials where they could and there is nothing new on that aircraft to add weight....gun they removed and amunition for it, weights much more than 3 radars installed in Kowsar..it is just makes no sence..it is not 50km/h ...almost 25% speed decrased.
I hope they will release more details and full specification for kowsar,at least I didn't saw full specification for it,maybe it is available...It would be interesting to see all data and than we could say more...if speed is decrased some other data must also follow it.
Again,this is just came to my mind as one of the posibilities,I don't have anything to back this theory so you may take this with reserve
 
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You do realize with a little money you could do the same thing? Doesn’t mean anything, other than an engineer had some time on his hands.

Shafagh project was much further along than this and still got axed.

I was one of the few that didn’t expect F-313 to see much results until at least a decade after it was announced.

But the issue here is the way this project has been covered up and politicized, unfortunately I don’t think it’s going anywhere anymore. One prototype was made and likely to quell international embarrassment that The mock up caused.

Iran also did this with an attack helicopter, made a poster and a prototype of it then nothing was heard of it again.

Since then every military official skirts the question of F-313 which is not good. You compare that to B-373 which at the very least commanders actually answer the question when addressed about it.
unfortunately we are struggling when it comes to a proper air force. but unlike many people i'm optimist about f-313. even if the result of that project become a subsonic fighter with RCS of 0.01sqm (which is a very big number for a stealth plane) it would be a great advantage against real killer like EU typhoon as typhoon can't detect it until it's 60 km away of it. cheap stealth planes could turn the balance in favor of us. but if f-313 is a subsonic fighter then i hope the turbofan version they are going to install on it is a high bypass one so at least I could have a greater range.
 
unfortunately we are struggling when it comes to a proper air force. but unlike many people i'm optimist about f-313. even if the result of that project become a subsonic fighter with RCS of 0.01sqm (which is a very big number for a stealth plane) it would be a great advantage against real killer like EU typhoon as typhoon can't detect it until it's 60 km away of it. cheap stealth planes could turn the balance in favor of us. but if f-313 is a subsonic fighter then i hope the turbofan version they are going to install on it is a high bypass one so at least I could have a greater range.
Well,when it comes to avio industry,even projects that never reached far than prototype actually can boost other projects,since many technologies will be used latter.As I can see F-313 was not intended to be short range interceptor,air superiority can't be any way since it lack range,payload..etc ..so it is probably intended to be cheap attack aircraft...lower RC and design for near super sonic speed at very low altitude could make it very good for anti ship role thus it can be used for CAS missions in some cases(it is not havy protected for frontline CAS missions but still).That aircraft will not be used for any a2a role if specifications that iran officialy published are real since it can only carry short range IR a2a missile..as we all know,like all attack aircrafts(su-25,a-10..etc)it is subsonic and doesn't have radar...so it lacks both speed and armament to be short range interceptor..and air superiority role..well it can't be tha in any case...that is reserved for big boys with big guns...like Su-30...Su-27, F-15,F-14(it was used as interceptor and air superiority) with huge range,payload and both short range and bvr capability....So,F-313 to be anything more than attack aircraft needs many changes and it wouldn't be that aircraft any more...We can expect something larger as soon some more powerfull engine is available.
 
Well,when it comes to avio industry,even projects that never reached far than prototype actually can boost other projects,since many technologies will be used latter.As I can see F-313 was not intended to be short range interceptor,air superiority can't be any way since it lack range,payload..etc ..so it is probably intended to be cheap attack aircraft...lower RC and design for near super sonic speed at very low altitude could make it very good for anti ship role thus it can be used for CAS missions in some cases(it is not havy protected for frontline CAS missions but still).That aircraft will not be used for any a2a role if specifications that iran officialy published are real since it can only carry short range IR a2a missile..as we all know,like all attack aircrafts(su-25,a-10..etc)it is subsonic and doesn't have radar...so it lacks both speed and armament to be short range interceptor..and air superiority role..well it can't be tha in any case...that is reserved for big boys with big guns...like Su-30...Su-27, F-15,F-14(it was used as interceptor and air superiority) with huge range,payload and both short range and bvr capability....So,F-313 to be anything more than attack aircraft needs many changes and it wouldn't be that aircraft any more...We can expect something larger as soon some more powerfull engine is available.

The anti ship role was the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If your enemy knows your fighters only have a range of 250 miles then they will park their ships outside that range.

Furthermore, building a plane to attack ships would have made since if it was the year 1935, but it’s 2019. A supersonic CM, a Hypersonic Missile, a CM, an antiship BM, etc. all will do a much more efficient job then building a damn plane for the sole purpose of attacking naval ships.

People get too caught up on the down tip wings of F-313.

All Iran had to do was enlarge the intakes and untip the wings and enlarge the fighter by 100-200%. Then have two AL-31’s power it and you have both a interceptor fighter and multirole fighter platform. Again that is grossly oversimplifying things, but the basic premise holds true.

The plane with some design modifications and an significant increase in size could have looked very similar to other 5th gen fighters. Add in a powerful radar, SAR capability for recon, radar absorbing skin, composite material, and you have the beginnings of at least a 4th gen fighter with stealth elements.

The ability to change the F-313 into something viable has been there. The issue is Air Force hates anything domestic, the IRGC Who has the resources to fund such a project don’t give a rats *** about stealth and air power.

The IRGC rather build from within, the Armed forces rather buy from aboard. The T-90 was a classic instance. Army commander says Iran wants to buy T-90 then later IRGC official says no need for T-90 we can make our own. Thus Army commander is embarrassed and has to save face and agree. Few weeks/months later Karrar is unveiled.

If the it was up to Iran’s armed forces by now they would have bought anything that Russia offers that they like. Armed forces have been FORCED into self sufficiency of arms industry, it is not down by choice. While Navy and Air defense force have come around to the concept. Air Force and Army are still holding out on big ticket items.

Hence why we have had zero Iranian tanks made, Zero Iranian IFVs, Zero Iranian APCS, zero Iranian Jets, zero Iranian attack helicopters, etc. We have just had an Iranian MRAP unveiled but let’s see how much actually get PRODUCED.

Its not just due to lack of design or funds or ability. The designs and prototypes are brought forward, but the powers that be are hesitant to fund them.
 
Frustrating ..yes but there are some rational reasons behind just the optics...
1- Iran does not face threat of land invasion so ground forces rearmement is the lowest priority.
2-Across the board low production capabilities in the Iranian military industrial base. ( due to mentality of political elite that do not see the relevance of Quantity in military hardware and still live in the human wave attacks of Iran Iraq war..Iranian soldier helmets and uniforms just one simple example).
3- Lack of funding for military in the current government that views a full belly more important than security of the bellys!..stupid incompetent US educated bunch..what can you expect ..lol
Regular army and IRGC guys are not stupid and have shown their smarts by choosing the most optimum routes to achieve what has been done so far.
Importance of a capable air force is gradually sinking in the heads of fund allocators. and no doubt in the near future we will see the some evidence. Mean while all of us have to wish that eventually we will see few hundred brand new black Karar tanks in a formation coupled with some MRAPS (I counted 10 of then in a photo!).
 
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Well,when it comes to avio industry,even projects that never reached far than prototype actually can boost other projects,since many technologies will be used latter.As I can see F-313 was not intended to be short range interceptor,air superiority can't be any way since it lack range,payload..etc ..so it is probably intended to be cheap attack aircraft...lower RC and design for near super sonic speed at very low altitude could make it very good for anti ship role thus it can be used for CAS missions in some cases(it is not havy protected for frontline CAS missions but still).That aircraft will not be used for any a2a role if specifications that iran officialy published are real since it can only carry short range IR a2a missile..as we all know,like all attack aircrafts(su-25,a-10..etc)it is subsonic and doesn't have radar...so it lacks both speed and armament to be short range interceptor..and air superiority role..well it can't be tha in any case...that is reserved for big boys with big guns...like Su-30...Su-27, F-15,F-14(it was used as interceptor and air superiority) with huge range,payload and both short range and bvr capability....So,F-313 to be anything more than attack aircraft needs many changes and it wouldn't be that aircraft any more...We can expect something larger as soon some more powerfull engine is available.
bro don't expect it as a replacement for f-14, consider it as our new light weight fighter jet as a replacement for f-5s. i assume f-313 has enough room for two gassed-3 and two r-73 missile this much of payload is exactly the combat payload of a f-5 so regarding to this aspect f-313 is better than f-5 as it's munitions are better (gassed-3 and r-73). regarding it's air-air capabilities you should keep it in mind that we recently in unveiling ceremony of kowsar, unveiled our first IFF and datalink so if we integrate them in our f-313s, ground radar control operators can share the aggressor planes positions with it and (if it has a really reduced RCS) qaher can approach them without they notice it and hit them without having a long range radar or missile. regarding it's range, if they use owj/j85 it would have the same combat radius of f-5 or maybe a little better (duo to it's larger airframe) and something like 600-700kms but i really hope they use turbofan version of it aka j-90 engine or even they develop a high bypass version of it. high bypass engines use very insignificant fuel and produce a large thrust but they are not suitable for super sonic speeds so if f-313 is a subsonic fighter high bypass turbofans are best choices. for example GE TF-34 engine that A-10 uses produces 40 kn thrust while its fuel consumption ratio is 0.37 lb/lbf/h. that numbers mean if you use a tf-34 with it's maximum output power for one hour it will burn 1.5 tons of fuel. while our GE J85/OWJs burns similar amount of fuel (1300kg) and produce 13.8KN thrust. so just imagine we use such engines on f-313, it's combat range would increase to something like 1500km.
it would bring many benefits to our air force if it had a RSC smaller than 0.01 sqm and combat range further than 700kms specially if it comes in a cheap price. we can replace them with our f-5.

seems like our green friend is ready to fly:
 
High bypass ratio turbofan has not enough acceleration to power high maneuverability fighters .
Qaher as antiship fighter need some maneuverability to scape from air superiority fighter.
 
Qaher as antiship
bro this saying that qaher is anti ship is a BS. its structure shows that it's made to handle low altitude higher pressure but that does not mean it's antiship. this shows that qaher is a striker/bomber and for a bomber maneuverability is not a priority but range on the contrary is vital and with original owj/j85 you can't achieve long range.
High bypass ratio turbofan has not enough acceleration
do you mean the engine takes time to transit between thrust state?? that depends on engine design. using high bypass engine does not mean we are going to install an airliner engine on it.
 

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