IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

Its the same for the opposition too. If IRIAF get its F-14 AM equipped with Maghsoud LR-BVR in next 2 years which is supposed to be a 200+ km bearing ARH version of Fakour-90. What will happen to enemy AWACS systems?

depend on how good their electric warfare is , f-14 does not really have a magnificent RCS , i'm sure enemy AWACS can detect them way beyound 400km and can deploy its own Electric Warfare suit and reduce the range of detection for F14 to 100km and so stay in safe distance while guide their own fighters.
by the way don't forget the scenario parameters those F-14 were supposed to be damaged F-14s that can't be used as interceptors (honestly don't knew why , if they are flightworthy we have the capability to make them fight worthy) so unless the f-14 decide to go close and use its vulkan cannon on enemy Awacs if they manage to detect them and if the enemy don't recall their own interceptors for help . probably nothing as the enemy have enough time to escape at around 800km/h and those f-14 as they are not supercruise capable have to use afterburner which reduce their range dramatically

Verified sources claim that Russia supplied Iran with 50 RD-33 turbofans in 2008. Russia today needs Iran as an ally more than it needed before so I am not very doubtful that if Iranian strategists bargain it properly they can get some proper TOT out of Russia for a reliable Turbofan. AL-31F option is there, but even if its CDK kits of some 150 RD-33MK for TOT assembly then ~50 of them can go to the current MIG fleet, and the rest 100 can equip Kowsar-II which will become a proper 4+ generation fighter with it.

Iran already has an inventory of 106 RD-33 btw. Some of them might be just being used for parts.

honestly if they did that we already had smokeless Mig-29 or have seen Kowsar with one engine so I doubt about validity of the claim unless for some strange reason defense ministry have stored those 50 x RD-33 somewhere in a warehouse

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Well, I was expecting such a statement in the next few days. It really means that they have even more advanced things in the bank already ready to be exposed. It goes beyond the Russian weapons that they could have because the configuration of the weapons that they will unveil will obviously be different from the Russians

IRGC Commander-in-Chief: Iran will have ultra-sophisticated weapons

Major General Hossein Salami, Commander-in-Chief of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), said on Sunday July 24 that weapons are one of the most effective factors in winning the war hence the determination of the Iran to produce the most advanced weapons.

(((( He said that "before the infinite power of God, every power would seem as insignificant as a mosquito and this is the secret of victory in every war, because it made the forces move forward and prevented the immobility caused by their possible fear. ". )))))

 

[drmeson]

Early IRIAF experimentation with MIG-29UB test bed.

Fixed Refueling Probe

2100 Ltr extra fuel (2 x 1050 Ltr tanks of F-5E)

It shows that IRIAF had immense interest in this platform. They ordered a total 72 of these but drunk Yeltsin chickened out because of American Pressure. Later they tried to purchase 25 of the Moldovan Fleet but CIA purchased them first. There was a rumor/unconfirmed report in the 2000s (I will try to locate the source) that Iran tried to get ~100 stored airframes of MIG-29S 9.13 again from Russia at one point.

IRIAF inherited F-5E/F as its light combat aircraft which was supposed to be replaced by 160 x F-16A/B in 1980s. Because this order fell through there could have been a talk in the 1990s in IRIAF (Sattari times) to go for as many MIG-29 as possible to create a dedicated interceptor force of some 250 aircraft comprising of F-14A, Azarakhsh-I, MIG-29 9.12/9.13.

Now the MIG fleet is tiny, needs MLU, severe avionics upgrades, armaments and what not. Even today with a budget of 2.5-3.0 Billion USD, IRIAF can build a force of ~100 x MIG-29M/MIG-35. Superb infrastructure exists inside Iran for them, pilots, and technicians are familiar with them so costs of training, infrastructure that a SU-35 will need, won't be required.

@waz @Deino I can't post anything new, it keeps saying that I have ran out of my limit for posts made in 24 hours. Will you please help me? Thanks in advance

 

[Hack-Hook]

Early IRIAF experimentation with MIG-29UB test bed

Fixed Refueling Probe
View attachment 864995

2100 Ltr extra fuel (2 x 1050 Ltr tanks of F-5E)
View attachment 864996View attachment 864998

It shows that IRIAF had immense interest in this platform. They ordered a total 72 of these but drunk Yeltsin chickened out because of American Pressure. Later they tried to purchase 25 of the Moldovan Fleet but CIA purchased them first. There was a rumor/unconfirmed report in the 2000s (I will try to locate the source) that Iran tried to get ~100 stored airframes of MIG-29S 9.13 again from Russia at one point.

IRIAF inherited F-5E/F as its light combat aircraft which was supposed to be replaced by 160 x F-16A/B in 1980s. Because this order fell through there could have been a talk in the 1990s in IRIAF (Sattari times) to go for as many MIG-29 as possible to create a dedicated interceptor force of some 250 aircraft comprising of F-14A, Azarakhsh-I, MIG-29 9.12/9.13.

Now the MIG fleet is tiny, needs MLU, severe avionics upgrades, armaments and what not. Even today with a budget of 2.5-3.0 Billion USD, IRIAF can build a force of ~100 x MIG-29M/MIG-35. Superb infrastructure exists inside Iran for them, pilots, and technicians are familiar with them so costs of training, infrastructure that a SU-35 will need, won't be required.

the infrastructure for maintaining Mig-29 are very limited and IRIAF was interested in Mig-29 about 25 years ago , then it was an acceptable airplane but now after 25 years what made the airplane interesting have become more or less irrelevant in air warfare . the plane is medicure unless they completely change its electronic warfare and countermeasure systems and its radars , add a potent and modern FLIR to it, then design a helmet mounted HUD for it , and more importantly change its mechanical control by a modern fly by wire one.

all of these problem for what , an old airframe that shine on radars like a Christmas tree? easier to go and design a new airframe.
if they really want to buy foreign airplanes suggest them do themselves a service and go become a partner with russia in SU-75 program and when it become ready in 5-6 year be the first buyer

 

[TheImmortal]

if they really want to buy foreign airplanes suggest them do themselves a service and go become a partner with russia in SU-75 program and when it become ready in 5-6 year be the first buyer

Yes that worked very well for India

 

[Hack-Hook]

Yes that worked very well for India

well they get several hundred SU-30 didn't they ?
so you guys say iran go and buy 4-5 squadran of an outdated 40 years old air plane from russia , but you guys against iran go and buy a newly designed airplane from russia.

by the way if you mean SU-57 the question is that do you think SU-57 is mass produced or not? if it being mass produced who will be first reciever India or Russia

on other hand SU-75 is export airplane

 

[TheImmortal]

well they get several hundred SU-30 didn't they ?
so you guys say iran go and buy 4-5 squadran of an outdated 40 years old air plane from russia , but you guys against iran go and buy a newly designed airplane from russia.

by the way if you mean SU-57 the question is that do you think SU-57 is mass produced or not? if it being mass produced who will be first reciever India or Russia

on other hand SU-75 is export airplane

India was a “partner” on SU-57 and Russia never turned over the agreed upon ToT and kept milking India for more funds. Project kept running into delays and problems. Disagreements. Finally India left the project. Iran doesn’t have the funds that India has/had. India is economic powerhouse....Iran is economic pariah.

There is almost a 0% chance Iran gets SU-57 much less any “partnership”. Your best bet is with an older plane if you want any sort of ToT with a written agreement that Iran can modifications to the aircraft as they deem fit. Similar to MKI variant of SU-30

SU-57 isn’t even being taken seriously by Russian airforce they reduced their orders to token amounts basically Kowsar level production.

As for SU-75 who knows if it reaches production level. Who will buy it? Poor countries like Syria and Venezuela? The entire world is switching to next gen F-18’s/F-16’s or F-35s. Russia can SU-75 sell to maybe China, but they have J-31 already why they need SU-75? India is turning to Western aircraft to rebuild its Air Force.

Not a big client base for Russia to sell SU-75 so production maybe limited to Russian Air Force to replace all their soviet era aircraft.

 

[Hack-Hook]

India was a “partner” on SU-57 and Russia never turned over the agreed upon ToT and kept milking India for more funds. Project kept running into delays and problems. Disagreements. Finally India left the project. Iran doesn’t have the funds that India has/had. India is economic powerhouse....Iran is economic pariah.

There is almost a 0% chance Iran gets SU-57 much less any “partnership”. Your best bet is with an older plane if you want any sort of ToT with a written agreement that Iran can modifications to the aircraft as they deem fit. Similar to MKI variant of SU-30

SU-57 isn’t even being taken seriously by Russian airforce they reduced their orders to token amounts basically Kowsar level production.

As for SU-75 who knows if it reaches production level. Who will buy it? Poor countries like Syria and Venezuela? The entire world is switching to next gen F-18’s/F-16’s or F-35s. Russia can SU-75 sell to maybe China, but they have J-31 already why they need SU-75? India is turning to Western aircraft to rebuild its Air Force.

Not a big client base for Russia to sell SU-75 so production maybe limited to Russian Air Force to replace all their soviet era aircraft.

so you believe 5 squadron of outdated mig-29 that can be detected by this

is better than Su-75

by the way USA didn't sell F-14 to a big client base , wonder if it was considered a bad airplane at the time

.
but this is mute , the su-75 example come to answer the people who want iran waste its money on something like old Mig 29

 

[TheImmortal]

so you believe 5 squadron of outdated mig-29 that can be detected by this

is better than Su-75

by the way USA didn't sell F-14 to a big client base , wonder if it was considered a bad airplane at the time

.
but this is mute , the su-75 example come to answer the people who want iran waste its money on something like old Mig 29

I never said to buy Mig 29. I did say to upgrade our Mig 29 to be semi lethal, that should be within Iran’s domestic capabilities.

(Realistic) wishlist of what I would like to see Iran purchase any of the following

1. J-31
2. SU-35S
3. J-10C
4. SU-30 with local license production (major ToT)

NOTE: technically J-10C could be considered more modern than SU-35S, but China is a wildcard in international relations. They largely stay out of supporting conflicts (if they occur) so having a lot of J-10C and no Chinese spare parts is Iran-Iraq war all over again.

The chances above happening are still low, but they are more realistic than ever touching SU-57 or SU-75.

Your SU-75 idea isn’t even rooted in reality. Russia hasn’t shown any indication of giving us any flankers outside of SU-27 (rumors) and now you are asking for SU-75? Why not ask for F-22? Or B-2 bomber? Since we live in fantasy land anything is possible.

 

[Stryker1982]

I never said to buy Mig 29. I did say to upgrade our Mig 29 to be semi lethal, that should be within Iran’s domestic capabilities.

(Realistic) wishlist of what I would like to see Iran purchase any of the following

1. J-31
2. SU-35S
3. J-10C
4. SU-30 with local license production (major ToT)

NOTE: technically J-10C could be considered more modern than SU-35S, but China is a wildcard in international relations. They largely stay out of supporting conflicts (if they occur) so having a lot of J-10C and no Chinese spare parts is Iran-Iraq war all over again.

The chances above happening are still low, but they are more realistic than ever touching SU-57 or SU-75.

Your SU-75 idea isn’t even rooted in reality. Russia hasn’t shown any indication of giving us any flankers outside of SU-27 (rumors) and now you are asking for SU-75? Why not ask for F-22? Or B-2 bomber? Since we live in fantasy land anything is possible.

Russia didn't even bother approaching Iran with a sales pitch for the Su-30 let alone Su-75. They'll never give us anything that might annoy their Israeli buddies who are killing them in Ukraine

 

[Hack-Hook]

Russia didn't even bother approaching Iran with a sales pitch for the Su-30 let alone Su-75. They'll never give us anything that might annoy their Israeli buddies who are killing them in Ukraine

then why spend money on their outdated airplane as some people here suggested.

 

[TheImmortal]

then why spend money on their outdated airplane as some people here suggested.

A SU-30/35 is still more than anything Iran has produced or will produce in next 10 years at this pathetic rate. I don’t blame the IRIAF too much, it comes down to high level decision making and needed funding.

Cant build without a serious effort. We wouldn’t have Bavar 373 if there wasn’t a push by the highest circles of government and military to have a long range domestic Air Defense systems.

I also wouldn’t make fun of a fighter jet when you can’t even build its airframe let alone its “outdated” engines. You are much more likely to get ToT on older planes than anything reliable from 5th Gen fighter “partnership”.

Unless your plan is to have a bunch of Kowsars “save” Iran’s airforce and pray that F-14 can keep flying for another 20 years. In which case, good luck.

 

[Hack-Hook]

A SU-30/35 is still more than anything Iran has produced or will produce in next 10 years at this pathetic rate. I don’t blame the IRIAF too much, it comes down to high level decision making and needed funding.

Cant build without a serious effort. We wouldn’t have Bavar 373 if there wasn’t a push by the highest circles of government and military to have a long range domestic Air Defense systems.

I also wouldn’t make fun of a fighter jet when you can’t even build its airframe let alone its “outdated” engines. You are much more likely to get ToT on older planes than anything reliable from 5th Gen fighter “partnership”.

Unless your plan is to have a bunch of Kowsars “save” Iran’s airforce and pray that F-14 can keep flying for another 20 years. In which case, good luck.

out dated is out dated , its a technical matter , not you have air craft or don't have it

 

[TheImmortal]

out dated is out dated , its a technical matter , not you have air craft or don't have it

With such a logic you would have told Tehrani Moghadam to not mess around with trying to replicate the SCUD in 1980’s because it was obsolete and inaccurate.

Buying SU-75 (by itself) will only stagnant the Iranian defense industry.

If you cannot copy a F-14 after 40 years, you sure as hell ain’t gonna be to make a 6th gen fighter anytime soon. So buying SU-75 will not advance directly advance Iranian aviation industry. They can learn somethings from the plane, but when you lack basic building blocks such as building a titanium airframe, how much can you truly learn? Local production of SU-30 will advance Iranian defense industry by some 20 years.

Some of you think in your mind you can jump from Kowsar to 6th gen medium-heavy fighter. No country in the world (not even China) has been able to do that. Sure if you had access to outsource different parts like Turkey you could scrap together a Frankenstein of foreign parts plane and call it “Iranian” in name only.

SU-35S purchase plus localized SU-30 production is still a low low chance of happening, but more realistic. Iran needs a heavy engine that is efficient and reliable. Without that we will be having this conversation in 2030, 2040, 2050

Israel/Saudi Arabia/Europe/Turkey/USA will nix any 5th Gen fighter jet sale to Iran (SU-57 or Su-75). Once again Iran will be bargaining chip for world powers to entice Russia to not sell game changing armaments. And Russia under such draconian sanctions will gladly use Iran again like it has in the past.

 

[drmeson]

the infrastructure for maintaining Mig-29 are very limited and IRIAF was interested in Mig-29 about 25 years ago , then it was an acceptable airplane but now after 25 years what made the airplane interesting have become more or less irrelevant in air warfare . the plane is medicure unless they completely change its electronic warfare and countermeasure systems and its radars , add a potent and modern FLIR to it, then design a helmet mounted HUD for it , and more importantly change its mechanical control by a modern fly by wire one.

all of these problem for what , an old airframe that shine on radars like a Christmas tree? easier to go and design a new airframe.
if they really want to buy foreign airplanes suggest them do themselves a service and go become a partner with russia in SU-75 program and when it become ready in 5-6 year be the first buyer

MIG-29 has a RCS of ~3-5 m2 so it does not "shine on radars like a Christmas tree", that title goes to SU-Flankers, F-15.

MIG-29 has superb physical performance like high maneuverability, climb rate, dash, speed etc. The only problem it has is its short range which got solved with dorsal CTs in M/SMT. Now I personally think that modern combat is roughly 70+ % about electronic capabilities. This situation changed in 2000s and now its all about who has better radar, e-warfare, Nav-Comm, missiles. Hence ,if a MIG-29 airframe is combined with modern e-Warfare+Radar+HOTAS+HMD slaved all aspect weapons and ARH BVR missiles, its as dangerous in air-to-air combat as any Flanker or teen series fighter of US. Technically, this is what we are doing right now in Kowsar-I. Luckily we can build it at home from scratch and plane itself has the lowest possible RCS below 5th generation. I said in a previous post that if IRIAF had larger no. of MIG-29s like lets say 70-80 airframes, with Kowsar-I's avionics and radars it could have been a very good platform.

and SU-75 for IRIAF ? I would be surprised if we get our current MIG-29 9.12 and SU-24M fleet MLUed let along upgraded by Russia. Probably the most realistic solution is to focus on Kowsar-I/II in high numbers with domestic sub systems and those that we yet cant make should be procured like a small ARH BVR missile. Fakour-90 cant be miniaturized