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Yes and yes..both of you..it is economy..and F-14 as start point...

Never forget Iran has world's no 1 oil and gas reserves combined so the sky is the limit...just get every one working...make things ...build things ...fu**ing rouhanni wasted 8 years of time... give me some funds and I will put a team together and make all the avionics for the new fighter...engine is evilwesterner,'s job..lol..
 
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Iran's economy was doing well 2007-2009, so what changed?

No, this is a fallacy. It depends what your definition of “well” is. If it is in relation today then yes it was doing “well”. But if it’s in relation to a first world economy then it was actually smoke and mirrors.

The Iranian economy in later 2000’s was being unsustainably pumped up on a period of massive oil revenues (by some estimates up to $1T dollars). Everyone and their mother was buying Iranian oil (Europe, China, Asia, South America, etc) and oil was trading above $100 dollars a barrel (and even hit $140+) before financial crisis of ‘08.

But this completely ignores Iran’s economy. This was a Baboon Arabia economy that was staying afloat completely on fossil fuel exports. Nothing worthy of praise. In the decade that followed Europe, South America, Asia, India all found other sources of oil due to sanctions. US fracking brought massive amounts of oil on to the market by making US #1 oil production country.

So nothing worthy of praise for that period. And most of the revenues I mentioned was lost to massive corruption by Ahmadinejad and the Republic as a whole instead of being invested into building a stronger national manufacturing and domestic production capability.

It doesn’t matter what weapon you build, if your foundation is corrupt and your business reform archaic....you will collapse without firing a single shot.

The biggest disaster to Iran was the policy of “neither East nor west”. By not making yourself connected to the world economy and making countries DEPENDENT on you, you lose all leverage against sanctions and economic coercion. A strong military might provide counter to invasion, but it will do nothing for foreign investment and sanctions.

You can’t force people to trade with you. If only this was written in Quran, then maybe these mullahs with no economic experience wouldn’t have built such a disastrous economic policy. Add in corruption from the so called scholars and technocrats. Add In subservient thinking to the West from the liberals and presto you got the Islamic Republic recipe.

China was smart, it led its population explode (Iran stupidly hampered it after the war) and now the world is facing a birthing shortage. I don’t need to explain to someone as smart as you what happens when you don’t have enough babies becoming working adults who spend and generate GDP in the economic engine of capitalism. The future of the world is looking pretty grim, hence why China is double downing on massive AI investments and technological advancements to build an economy of the future that relies on less humans (less being born after all).

Iran on the other hand allowed Chinese products to flood the market and kill off major Iranian manufacturing companies that couldn’t compete including companies that had been around since Shah and Reza Shah! But thank god Iran just banned imports of South Korean fridges and stoves....*rolls eyes*

I digress, back to the topic at hand. If you look at the Republic I challenge you to find

A car company that builds on the same quality as Mercedes Benz

A phone company that builds on the same quality as Apple/Samsung/Huwawei

A semi conductor/chip manufacturer on the same level as AMD/Nividia

A plane manufacture on the level of Airbus/Boeing/Bombardier

A payment services company that processes on the level of Alipay/Visa/Mastercard

These are just generic examples to illustrate the wide gap between Iran and other emerging countries that are reaching that level (India, China). This self sufficiency economy that Iran has a pipe dream of building will never happen as long as economic reform, corruption, and the brith of generation that is dedicated and filled with innovation and hard work ethic that rivals the Chinese....are not solved.

China made the West dependent on it for the supply of consumer goods its populations crave. It could have easily said margh Ba America and shunned US for last 3 decades. But Chinese were much more long term thinking. They knew how to embed themselves into the very fabric of western society. Russia though much weaker still has leverage on Europe. Just look at natural gas prices In Europe. If Russia turns off the taps, Europe freezes to death over the winter.

But Europe is building alternatives via Qatar gas line and Turkish-Azeri gas line to remove Russian blackmail, so Russia’s future also doesn’t look too god.

Iran since 1979 has built ZERO economic leverage. It relied on fossil fuel exports which is now a dying fuel source and by 2100 will likely be completely obsolete. It never thought the West could take itself off of the need for Iranian oil supply in the world and it also made the same calculation for the East. Well boy was that stupid. Iran isn’t even China’s top 3 oil supplier. To make matters worse if Iran doesn’t receive $150B in energy investment it will eventually become a net importer of gasoline and oil....how ironic.

So in conclusion, strong military doesn’t lead to strong economy in 2021. Without firing a single bullet Uncle Sam sent 50% of Iranians into poverty. Iran’s insistence of not building lasting trade relations with major western countries (or eastern countries) and instead relying on oil for much of the Republics life has led to an economic crisis that cannot be solved by JCPOA alone.

Iran could have 100 nukes, 300 F-14’s and the same economic problems would exist in Iran today, tomorrow, and in 2030. You cant force US and Europe to trade with you. Iran made itself irrelevant to the world global economy. While countries would love to take advantage of making money (after all business is business), sanctions keep them away. There is not a NEED to trade with Iran. And that is the key factor that will lead to the possible fall of the Republic, not because Iran didn’t have SU-35 or an ICBM.
 
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No, this is a fallacy. It depends what your definition of “well” is. If it is in relation today then yes it was doing “well”. But if it’s in relation to a first world economy then it was actually smoke and mirrors.

The Iranian economy in later 2000’s was being unsustainably pumped up on a period of massive oil revenues (by some estimates up to $1T dollars). Everyone and their mother was buying Iranian oil (Europe, China, Asia, South America, etc) and oil was trading above $100 dollars a barrel (and even hit $140+) before financial crisis of ‘08.

But this completely ignores Iran’s economy. This was a Baboon Arabia economy that was staying afloat completely on fossil fuel exports. Nothing worthy of praise. In the decade that followed Europe, South America, Asia, India all found other sources of oil due to sanctions. US fracking brought massive amounts of oil on to the market by making US #1 oil production country.

So nothing worthy of praise for that period. And most of the revenues I mentioned was lost to massive corruption by Ahmadinejad and the Republic as a whole.

It doesn’t matter what weapon you build, if your foundation is corrupt and your business reform archaic....you will collapse without firing a single shot.

The biggest disaster to Iran was the policy of “neither East nor west”. By not making yourself connected to the world economy and making countries DEPENDENT on you, you lose all leverage against sanctions and economic coercion. A strong military might provide counter to invasion, but it will do nothing for foreign investment and sanctions.

You can’t force people to trade with you. If only this was written in Quran, then maybe these mullahs with no economic experience wouldn’t have built such a disastrous economic policy. Add in corruption from the so called scholars and technocrats. Add In subservient thinking to the West from the liberals and presto you got the Islamic Republic recipe.

China was smart, it led its population explode (Iran stupidly hampered it after the war) and now the world is facing a birthing shortage. I don’t need to explain to someone as smart as you what happens when you don’t have enough babies becoming working adults who spend and generate GDP in the economic engine of capitalism. The future of the world is looking pretty grim, hence why China is double downing on massive AI investments and technological advancements to build an economy of the future that relies on less humans (less being born after all).

I digress, back to the topic at hand. If you look at the Republic I challenge you to find

A car company that builds on the same quality as Mercedes Benz

A phone company that builds on the same quality as Apple/Samsung/Huwawei

A semi conductor/chip manufacturer on the same level as AMD/Nividia

A plane manufacture on the level of Airbus/Boeing/Bombardier

A payment services company that processes on the level of Alipay/Visa/Mastercard

These are just generic examples to illustrate the wide gap between Iran and other emerging countries that are reaching that level (India, China). This self sufficiency economy that Iran has a pipe dream of building will never happen as long as economic reform, corruption, and the brith of generation that is dedicated and filled with innovation and hard work ethic that rivals the Chinese....are not solved.

China made the West dependent on it for the supply of consumer goods its populations crave. It could have easily said margh Ba America and shunned US for last 3 decades. But Chinese were much more long term thinking. They knew how to embed themselves into the very fabric of western society. Russia though much weaker still has leverage on Europe. Just look at natural gas prices In Europe. If Russia turns off the taps, Europe freezes to death over the winter.

Iran since 1979 has built ZERO economic leverage. It relied on fossil fuel exports which is now a dying fuel source and by 2100 will likely be completely obsolete. It never thought the West could take itself off of the need for Iranian oil supply in the world and it also made the same calculation for the East. Well boy was that stupid. Iran isn’t even China’s top 3 oil supplier. To make matters worse if Iran doesn’t receive $150B in energy investment it will eventually become a net importer of gasoline and oil....how ironic.

So in conclusion, strong military doesn’t lead to strong economy in 2021. Without firing a single bullet Uncle Sam sent 50% of Iranians into poverty. Iran’s insistence of not building lasting trade relations with major western countries (or eastern countries) and instead relying on oil for much of the Republics life has led to an economic crisis that cannot be solved by JCPOA alone.

Iran could have 100 nukes, 300 F-14’s and the same economic problems would exist in Iran today, tomorrow, and in 2030. You cant force US and Europe to trade with you. Iran made itself irrelevant to the world global economy. While countries would love to take advantage of making money (after all business is business), sanctions keep them away. There is not a NEED to trade with Iran. And that is the key factor.

My friend, most Iranians that love their country share your passion, but you cannot make statements like " Iran since 1979 has built ZERO economic leverage " ...

Inadvertently you proved my point. Just because a nation has a good economy, for a while, it does not mean anything, hence UAE, again and again, despite its many economic developments, or Egypt, or India, or even Turkey.

Iran produces 98% of its own medicine, 87% of its own cars, has advanced in so many ways ... may not be good enough to please us Iranians as our expectations are to be number 1 on the planet ...

But compare Iran to countries in region for a FAIR comparison ... like Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, even India.

You are not being fair because you love Iran and want Iran to be the greatest on earth.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Iran has lots to yet achieve, we all know that. But your unfair comparison of what Iran should accomplish is not based on a sense of realistic accomplishments.

Iran was in the hands of U.S. up until 1979, then an 8 year war with almost the whole world, now it is growing.

China was nothing when I went there in 2003, then when I was there in 2008 it was growing, in 2016 it became what it is today.

Be fair in your analysis. I know you want Iran to be TIER ONE, but your expectations are just not real hence why you are almost always disappointed in every post you submit. I can feel your frustration with Iran. But it is your own frustration why Iran cannot be everything that you want it to be.

It is commendable that you love your country, want it so much to achieve a great deal, and are disappointed when reality sets in. Often I feel the same way. But F-14 manufacturing is something Iran can do where it is today. And yes I agree, Iran should massively work on its economy. Personally I have a thousand ideas with manufacturing, but it is not my area of expertise to make comments here.

For one, i would build a common structure electric platform for Iranian cars, as GM is working on, it is simple for Iran to do. I can touch on many other industries from water desalination to thermal solar.

But we should all be reasonable with our expectations.

Otherwise, considering my background, I would say that Iran should build an F22.
 
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Let me clarify what I have said before, as I am always a bit insecure in being misunderstood - and particularly careful in using my words not to misrepresent things.

When I was working at RR, I had an Iranian mentor (for about 10+ of the years I was there). He is one of the sweetest individuals I have ever met. He use to peel oranges and give them to me when I had some of the most nightmare project management positions in the company. He was loved by all the Iranians at RR (and you can imagine, Iranians can barely get along together and have their priorities right - we sometimes eat our own out of 1) fear, 2) misguided loyalties, and 3) mostly our arrogance and ignorance (really the same thing).

Still, think of it, no easy feat to be loved by 40+ Iranians, different generations, some highly educated, some not, some from prior to Iran revolution, and some after. So, now you think to yourself what a sweetheart he must be, to be loved by so many people. His poetry and proverbs are also incredible. Anyways, I love this man - he was there when I needed someone. When I had everyone fighting me, he calmed me down and reminded me that winning with style is more important than winning for egotistical bragging. I learned a lot from him at a time when I was a bowl of fire ready to rip everyone a new ARSE as the brits say.

He is in Iran, and he is retired, and he is ready to help, IF THEY ASK HIM. He also has a good reputation with Iranian authorities in this area. He has delivered for them, many things, to do with RR engines parts, and things. I cannot say too much about this.

This man has 2 things to offer an Iranian engine design and manufacturing project:

1) his technical knowledge - which is far more than anyone can imagine or I can describe without being accused of showing off. Just take my word for it. He is technically incredible.

2. his project management skills - he is loved, his approach/style is very different (than mine, which is brute force and technical showmanship) while his is far more sophisticated and smarter. I would work for him for FREE. No b.s. - that is the TRUTH.

In my estimation, he can develop an AL21 to the point of "testing" a new engine (READ THAT WORD CAREFULLY), within one year. May be, just may be, within 8 months, if MAPNA helps with some things, which I can't mention here.

If this man WAS put in charge, if he is given the funding he needs, if he has as much support as Bavar 373 did, THERE IS NO WAY ANYONE ON EARTH CAN CONVINCE ME THAT IRAN CANNOT BUILD AL21F within one year. No one. No one. Iran CAN. I would bet you everything I own, including my salary, and my retirement fund.

To make it faster, better, to allow Iran to also build the equivalent of a ALF 502 and/or RR Tay 650 (there is nothing he DOES NOT KNOW about T650, nothing, absolutely nothing, it was his baby when I joined after my post grad decades ago), THEN IRAN HAS TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE ...

Iran has to do ONE MORE THING on top of everything else ...

Give amnesty to children whose family members have been or are still in sensitive positions outside Iran.

Iran needs those that truly LOVE Iran.

I understand it is hard to distinguish between those that love Iran and love money and serve the Western global domination for a fist fully of Dollars, often hurting IRAN as a result.

I know asswipes like M. Alinejad may piss them off, but most Iranians outside are not this charlatan getting money from Saudis protected by U.S. state dept.

But many people I know, and I have worked with, and I would work with again, who would BENEFIT IRAN, need amnesty to be able to go back to Iran. These kids did nothing wrong. It was not their fault that their family members were in certain positions in the Shah's regime. Some of the other stuff they have done, often out of anger when they were young, need to be forgiven for the sake of a bigger picture for the good of Iran and her people and their future.

Not talking about myself. I have never done anything that would concern MYSELF, but my family has a long history in the military in Iran.

If he tells me that I can go back to Iran, I would give up my cushy job, TODAY, and get on a plane tonight, and go back to Iran. But I only trust him. And many others would also trust him and go back to help Iran build engines that are stifling the AF development projects all around us, including Pakistan and India.

I know what I say here is monitored by SOME very close to my vacinity. Still, I am not afraid (not at this point of my life, don't give a s**t) to mention this openly here. I would be on the plane this evening to go back and help. Heck, I would sleep on the factory floor over there, like I use to at RR.

I only need a few hours of sleep. Iran always underestimates motivation. Westerners never do. They instead, bank on it.

But I only trust this one man. No one else there, since I don't know them.

Here are the facts from my conversations with him (and I just talked to him a few days ago regarding his house in Hamstead) so I know what he wants more than anything else on earth, now that his granddaughter has (finally) a boy ...

He wants to SERVE Iran.

Many of us do. We don't need cars or money or homes. We had it all and saw how empty all of is. Like having sex with the most pretties girls on earth. After a few times, it's no big deal. The ego trip, obsession of achievement, only lasts for 2-3 days. Love for Iran, never ends. EVER, until we are put in our graves. It's in our blood. Only stupidity and arrogance makes us forget it temporarily, until sooner or later (as my dad use to say, RIP) ... elephants will remember and want to go back home to Hindustan (Feel yadeh hindostan mikoneh). You all have heard it before.

Iranian authorities MUST FIRST MAKE A DECISION that they want an engine for their NEW to be, developed AIR FORCE.

Apparently, this decision has not been made yet, or we are not informed of it (for very good reasons, e.g. blocking parts and support from Iran's suppliers, like they did with equipment for nuclear energy in 1999-2006)

I have no knowledge whatsoever of what this potential engine development would entail. I have no knowledge of how Iranian authorities fight/win project priorities and funding between different ministries or departments. I know how the West does it, but ZERO knowledge on Iran's way/methods.

As far as I understand it (which is very little, no matter how much I research it), Iran has NOT made any decisions, or indications, of any sorts, that they release publicly, or that they want to design a platform for the military fighter jets or bombers. AGAIN, may be they don't want anyone to know yet until it is done.

Iran DOES HAVE one of the greatest aviation engineers with incredible personality (believe me it matters so much), and he can bring back to Iran about at least 30 Iranians may be as much as 40+ Iranian engineers currently living in Europe, and a few in U.S. and other places. These are SEASONED engineers who have DELIVERED results in incredible positions working for highest level aviation firms in Western hemisphere. These engineers are all millionaires,so there is a lot of money coming back too (IF, big IF, they take all their money back).

So I HOPE I was CRYSTAL CLEAR about everything and hope I did not over exaggerate or mislead anyone with any bravado or false expectations.

There are too many issues and aspects of detail involved here. Just like a project management for engine development. Someone needs to have good judgement, the necessary funds, and put it all together and make it happen. Who has the authority to START THIS RIVER WITH THE FIRST DROP OF WATER ???

God Bless Iran and her people
Afareen. Vaghean afareen
 
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Never forget Iran has world's no 1 oil and gas reserves combined so the sky is the limit...

And Afghanistan has $1T plus in mineral reserves....it’s still a ****hole.

Iran’s energy sector needs $150B (not even exploration) to stay alive, whose going to pay for that Hajizadeh? SL? Rafsanjani’s family? Maybe one of Khomeini’s grandsons?

No one is belittling Iran’s gifted energy reserves, but they need massive amounts of capital to survey, explore, drill, extract, store, and ship across the world. And you also need clients....

Ask yourself this, if tommorrow Iran didn’t exist, would the world economy suffer? The answer is a resounding no. If literally tommorrow Iran was wiped off the face of the earth and sunk into the ground....I would be hard pressed to see if the world economy even skips a beat. That’s just sad...considering where this country was 3000 years ago at the center of human civilization and now it could disappear tommorrow and the world Economy wouldn’t even notice.
 
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And Afghanistan has $1T plus in mineral reserves....it’s still a ****hole.

Iran’s energy sector needs $150B (not even exploration) to stay alive, whose going to pay for that Hajizadeh? SL? Rafsanjani’s family? Maybe one of Khomeini’s grandsons?

No one is belittling Iran’s gifted energy reserves, but they need massive amounts of capital to survey, explore, drill, extract, store, and ship across the world. And you also need clients....

Ask yourself this, if tommorrow Iran didn’t exist, would the world economy suffer? The answer is a resounding no. If literally tommorrow Iran was wiped off the face of the earth and sunk into the ground....I would be hard pressed to see if the world economy even skips a beat. That’s just sad...considering where this country was 3000 years ago at the center of human civilization and now it could disappear tommorrow and the world Economy wouldn’t even notice.
If Iran disappears yes nothing happens..the good news is that if US disappears it will be peaceful everywhere.. lol..ok I was kidding

Capital is always needed to develop any thing....if you ask me where should that capital come from I would say domestic bond issue by the NIOC..give them 10 YEAR BOND at fantastic rate and Vala.. you have your capital...just an example.
 
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And Afghanistan has $1T plus in mineral reserves....it’s still a ****hole.

Iran’s energy sector needs $150B (not even exploration) to stay alive, whose going to pay for that Hajizadeh? SL? Rafsanjani’s family? Maybe one of Khomeini’s grandsons?

No one is belittling Iran’s gifted energy reserves, but they need massive amounts of capital to survey, explore, drill, extract, store, and ship across the world. And you also need clients....

Ask yourself this, if tommorrow Iran didn’t exist, would the world economy suffer? The answer is a resounding no. If literally tommorrow Iran was wiped off the face of the earth and sunk into the ground....I would be hard pressed to see if the world economy even skips a beat. That’s just sad...considering where this country was 3000 years ago at the center of human civilization and now it could disappear tommorrow and the world Economy wouldn’t even notice.

My friend, none of these matter and are all connected to your aspiration for Iran based on your love and passion for that country.

REALITY CHECK ...

Only hand full of counties on earth are even close to economically stable.

Here in U.S. there is a short term $23T debt, and a $80+T long term debt, printing money, buying $30B mortgage backed bonds every month, and $50B other bonds.

U.S. knows it will have problems long term if its money is devalued, hence its new hostility with China.

Most European countries have economic-related based on be it population or investments or natural resources, issues.

Saudi Arabia with its reserves spent $400b of its reserves in the last few years.

China has long term problems with its aging population and with its elites' western-worshiping.

India has many infrastructural, cultural, pollution, and economic problems.

Why are you comparing Iran to a MYTH, an idle aspiration that is just not REALITY?

Yes Iran does need investment, but has also consistently grown its production and oil/gas income outside of sanctions.

IMHO you are too harsh on Iran based on your own unrealistic expectations.

But I also feel your pain. I think many of us do.

Come on over and we will have a cup of tea together, and discuss how we can help Iran in our dreams.




If Iran disappears yes nothing happens..the good news is that if US disappears it will be peaceful everywhere.. lol..ok I was kidding

Capital is always needed to develop any thing....if you ask me where should that capital come from I would say domestic bond issue by the NIOC..give them 10 YEAR BOND at fantastic rate and Vala.. you have your capital...just an example.

That is funny ... with U.S. disappearing. But the reality is, also, there will actually be more wars.
 
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China was nothing when I went there in 2003, then when I was there in 2008 it was growing, in 2016 it became what it is today.

You also need to be fair in your assessment. Saying China was nothing in 2003...when it had ICBM with multiple warheads in 1970 and manufacturing capability of engines that Iran cannot even build in 2021... is not giving a country credit at all. A country the size of China and its population is much harder to bring to a first world country than a country the land size of Iran and 80M people.

Iranians are not living better today then they were in 2010 or even 2000. While it’s commendable Iran can produce some things itself, it doesn’t fix the major systemic issues at play here. At this point there is a risk that we fall into mentality of continuously looking back at our past and saying well we were servants of the west for a while, well we had war, well CIA overthrew our PM, well Qajar dynasty gave away the country. I mean Jesus Christ how far back do we need to go? Stop making excuses every country alive today was ****ed over by another country or countries. The difference is what you make moving forward and stop using that as a handicap as to why you are not pushing the envelope.

So I will just say this to not derail the thread any longer...if you keep giving excuses to the motherland and only focusing on the positives then you are feeding into the problem much like a parent who very much loves their child makes excuses and only showers it with praise only to see the child die of drug overdose 20 years later.

I will just leave you with this video, I hope you can spot the difference in Chinese government mentality Vs Iranian government mentality on its economy and the future.


 
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You also need to be fair in your assessment. Saying China was nothing in 2003...when it had ICBM with multiple warheads in 1970 and manufacturing capability of engines that Iran cannot even build in 2021... is not giving a country credit at all. A country the size of China and its population is much harder to bring to a first world country than a country the land size of Iran and 80M people.

Iranians are not living better today then they were in 2010 or even 2000. While it’s commendable Iran can produce some things itself, it doesn’t fix the major systemic issues at play here. At this point there is a risk that we fall into mentality of continuously looking back at our past and saying well we were servants of the west for a while, well we had war, well CIA overthrew our PM, well Qajar dynasty gave away the country. I mean Jesus Christ how far back do we need to go? Stop making excuses every country alive today was ****ed over by another country or countries. The difference is what you make moving forward and stop using that as a handicap as to why you are not pushing the envelope.

So I will just say this to not derail the thread any longer...if you keep giving excuses to the motherland and only focusing on the positives then you are feeding into the problem much like a parent who very much loves their child makes excuses and only showers it with praise only to see the child die of drug overdose 20 years later.

I will just leave you with this video, I hope you can spot the difference in Chinese government mentality Vs Iranian government mentality on its economy and the future.



There you go again ... confirming what I said all along ...

China had a strong military before it had a strong economy. I know Chinese mentality, I talk about it in conferences for an hour.

Same as Russia.

Same as U.S.

Same as Britain.

I feel your pain about CIA/Mossadegh/Qajar etc.my brother. I feel exactly what you are feeling in the pit of your stomach.

But we have to stay steadfast and keep our focus on the ball.

Elon Musk talks about what serves Elon Musk. I met him about 3 years ago in Lincoln Building in downtown Bellevue. He has not a tiny shred of decency or a sense of national pride as you do. He is a weirdo prick. Ask anyone who have met him, they would confirm that. By the way, he begs like a dog for people to invest in Tesla and his other ventures that were ideas from Paul Allen.

Not feeding positives, just REALITY.

Finally the question you should ask of yourself, is how CONSTRUCTIVELY in a REAL SENSE can Iran get to what you want it to be? You have to ponder that question, while considering the REALITIES on the ground, in IRAN, with an old traditional society, religion, and ideology. Suppose you were the project manager for it? How would you deal with all the different aspects and characters and challenges and emotions, there to achieve what you desire? Be honest, and be realistic, then put your plan together.

Regarding IRIAF, IMHO, Iran can and should build a new F-14 with upgrades if it cannot buy Su30/35 at large quantities.
 
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The goal is for Iran to become self sufficient in producing military aircrafts.

Buying dozens of SU-30/SU-35 's and dozens of J-10's with some technology transfers would surely help Iran reach its goal.

Iran's drone program is only where it is today because of captured US drones.

Iran should produce its own aircrafts, for example keep upgrading the F-5, perhaps add BVR capabilities to it and upgrade F-14's like you mentioned but there's nothing wrong with acquiring foreign technology as well.

Some of Iran's jets like the F-4 or some older Soviet or French jets need to go and soon, otherwise Iran's airforce will become irrelevant.

During the Iran-Iraq war just imagine if Iran had not acquired F-14's several years prior. Saddam could have very well attained air dominance.

Again I hope to see Iran purchase Russian and Chinese jets with some technology transfers but only time will tell.

Does not need to be "world class". Does not need to be Rafale.

Iran needs to copy F-14 (new airframes of course), a platform it knows extremely well, one of the best radius at max speed turn rate, and ample room for long range BVR missiles. Iran just needs a new engine for it, as well as a new hybrid PESA with solid state amplifiers or ideally AESA radar. Iran can also add IRST although from what someone who is an expert on the subject explained to me, IRST is not much help against a platform like F22 or F35. Not as much as people think.

Then this is a formidable aircraft, and like Su35 will last Iran another 15 years minimum.

Iran today is not Iran in 2003. It has come along long way since then.

Iran can also develop satellites with the right funding and the right individuals.

The reason other countries have problems developing technologies is not because they cannot. Again, as is the case with Iran, they have lots of different priorities and spend their money and time on many projects rather than one or few.

Iran needs a "competent" or "good enough" air force, as this adds to Iran's box of tools, creates another layer of deterrence, and allows Iran's air force to get enough training and stay within reach of the latest technologies to make sure it does not fall behind so far that it is flying antiques.

If Iran develops its own engine (say an AL21F) and a hybrid PESA radar with solid state amplifiers, and a level of avionics that is good enough, is Russia MORE LIKELY to sell Iran, say Su-57 or China sell Iran J-31? I would say yes. Not saying Iran needs it or not, but saying that their strategic perception of Iran changes.

F-14 is outdated because of its engines, and avionics, radar, and weapons integration. Not because of its air frame design. If these are brought to date, with Fakour 90 updated with ECM and better thermal batteries, better active seeker, of course (newly built F-14s) it would be better for Iran than a Su-30 or 35, IMHO.
 
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Iran is facing some serious economic issues but I believe that they can be overcome with pragmatic policies.

Right now Iran's economy is growing and Iran is selling nearly as much oil as before the sanctions.

Many nations that publicly avoid buying Iranian crude are doing so under the table and as we saw recently Iran will not allow the US to stop it's oil sales. They capture an Iranian tanker, Iran captures theirs, it's that simple.

Decades ago the idea of Iran standing up to the USA in such a way was unthinkable, even laughable but Iran has come a long way.

Just like the Covid-19 issue, the economy is something that can be overcome. Many nations in the region are facing serious economic issues including Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon, Afghanistan just to name a few.

Iran is blessed to be an energy superpower and a mountainous country with good water resources.

Strengthening the military and it's capabilities should be a top priority. The resources of the world are finite but the population of the world keeps growing and growing.

There will be wars over resources. China and India will likely go to war over the water resources of the Himalayas. There will be floods of refugees. Iran must strengthen its borders and military.

I was reading today that the world is changing from a unipolar world with one super power to tripolar world with the USA, Russia and China at the helm. I expect Russia to reacquired many of its lost territories. China will have the world's largest economy in a few years and the South China Sea will be a flashpoint.

The world is changing at a rapid pace and Iran must be ready for this change. Iran's military must be stronger and more capable than ever before. Iran's borders must be more secure than ever and Iran's leaders have to be on guard and vigilant.


There is not enough F-14 worthy of flying many combat hours. During a sustained air campaign many would break down. It’s a heavy maintenance aircraft and expensive to maintain (typical American philosophy).

Compare that to SU-30 which follows Russian philosophy of being resilient and cheap to maintain in respect to their western counterparts. F-14 reverse engineering was already brought up to SL (this much was leaked during Q-313 unveiling) and SL shut it down and pushed Iranian engineers to develop an indigenous design. That hasn’t happened yet.

Also another big issue which no one wants to address is the long term economy of Iran. You guys are recommending the same path that destroyed the Soviet Union and is destroying the US today. All this focus on military expansion and zero focus on long term sustainability of Iran’s economy and ecosystems (water, drought, poverty etc) will only cause a major systemic problem later on.

China has the economic power to build anything it wants and massively expand its military. Right now it’s naval expansion might be the biggest naval expansion in the history of mankind with the rate Chinese shipyards are pumping out warships.

Iran on the other hand is more like that one person who has a credit card (s) and is buying everything on borrowed time & money with no collateral to back it up (ie economic power).

For Iran to have a true war machine it needs an economy that can feed that war machine. Or else Iran will always be a middle tier power stuck in the sandbox of the Middle East bumping heads with Jews on one hand and Baboon Arabia on the other.
 
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Regarding IRIAF, IMHO, Iran can and should build a new F-14 with upgrades if it cannot buy Su30/35 at large quantities.

Some years back in the old idf forum and in later forums, there was a pic of an IRIAF model of what we called the single engine tomcat floating around. The radome and air intakes were distinctly that of the tomcat but with a fixed wing design with single engine. If you have seen that image, would you recommend that design but as a twin engine frame?
 
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Some years back in the old idf forum and in later forums, there was a pic of an IRIAF model of what we called the single engine tomcat floating around. The radome and air intakes were distinctly that of the tomcat but with a fixed wing design with single engine. If you have seen that image, would you recommend that design but as a twin engine frame?

AF of just about every country on the planet starts with a requirements analysis. They ask themselves what do they need, air superiority, airborne air defense, interdiction, multi-role, etc. So it always starts from what an AF requires. Then they look at what options they have, what are their budget constraints, who will sell them which platform, how fast the induction/adoption of the new air crafts, etc. etc.

My current recommendations for Iran, for instance, is based on Iran's circumstances. There are many different things to consider. As you can tell when any members here debate their ideas and their suggestions or recommendations, is (in each case) based on their analysis of Iran's requirements. We are all making suppositions and assumptions, of course.

My own recommendations are based on the fact that Iran needs an indigenous AF air craft as it is falling behind in realistic combat training, keeping up with the latest technologies, planning and testing platforms and tactics against a more superior AF, etc. etc. So hence I suggest that Iran needs to look at all of these, and based on GOOD JUDGMENT, get going as fast as possible and get AF up and running again.

There are also many issues outside of AF to consider for a nation's defense, not just fighter jets, or AF itself.

Whether an air craft is single engine or twin engine depends again on many, many things. First and foremost, since for years I was in charge of OEM maintenance logistics (hence my bias) with air crews from both U.S. and U.K., I look at maintenance and reliability issues. So, if a jet engine is exceptionally reliable, well tested and proven platform, and has very competent and experience maintenance crew, then I would contemplate single engine air craft (outside of other criteria such as range and weapons load).

In almost all cases, a single engine aircraft is set on a logistics BEA, which means that AFs, in the West in particular, use the engine up to 80% of its estimated TBO, and the single engine gets regular checks and regular inspections. Obviously CMA (critical mission application) single engines also have an extra predicated usage scenario such as whether it is used over land, or as a navy application, cost issues, performance requirements, etc. For instance, A4 Skyhawk is a single engine small jet with about 7 ton payload (fuel and weapons), and was used by both Navy and air forces. It was regarded as such a reliable application that it was easily integrated into U.S. Navy.

I have come across maintenance crews who worked on A4 and they say they have never worked on a masterpiece like A4 ever before or after they worked with that aircraft. A4 is an exceptional aircraft in so many way. I don't want to bore you with all the details about its design. But it was an amazing air craft.

Now about single engine F-14 ???

I don't know what overall strategy of Iran's AF is, so it is hard to say one way or the other. Can you build an F-14 with a single engine? I would say, depends.

Here's what most people often miss about air crafts? .... aerodynamic lift to drag ratio.

If F-14 removed its air intake nacelles and incorporated a redesign to accommodate inlet separation/distortion resulted from crosswind and high angle-of-attack operating conditions, by putting an engine on top (or even underneath still with much smaller air intake for turbojet engines instead of turbofan), it would hugely reduce drag and if the resulting performance is acceptable by the AF for the application they are considering, then it would be perfectly fine and doable.

Let me explain this in a bit more simplistic way.

People always consider that turbofan engines are more fuel efficient (usually about 10-15% or so depending on engines and a few other things), but people hardly ever seem to consider that smaller air intake nacelles reduce drag which can result in fuel savings.

If you have a bigger turbojet engine (usually above 20,000 of thrust) you can begin to consider and analyze your design based on AF requirements and the higher the engine thrust, the more likely you can have fuel savings from small air intake openings of a turbojet .

The Su-24 is more efficient in drag than FB-111 although they are roughly somewhat the same size. The former has low drag due to its air intake, compared to the latter's turbofan engines, not considering low flight performance/requirements compared to high altitude flight performance/requirements,

Imagine an F-14, the air intake and bottom engine housing removed, and you had a single R-35 engine on top of the air frame with adequate engine intake variable controller, altitude adjustable air intake, with FBW controls? Taken into consideration weighting coefficient to optimize total pressure loss coefficient and static pressure recovery coefficient, with the external nacelle flow redesign.

That aircraft would be one hell of an aircraft, in terms of flight performance compared to current F-14A that Iran has.

There is very little information available online about F-14A. Most of what you find is about F-14D, which was much heavier and different engines, substantially different.

The Iranian F-14A has engines that are 2 tons each, delivering 20,900/10,850 (afterburner/military) thrust. With 2 engines it delivers: 41,800/21,700 and it weights 37,000ish lbs.

F-14A redesigned as I explained above with a single R-35 would weight 30,000ish lbs, (roughly) with a 29,000/19,000ish engine, with substantially improved aerodynamic lift to drag ratio.

It can also fly at higher altitude.

Look at the numbers above carefully. With a single engine R-35, it can have almost the same non-afterburner thrust for a lighter air craft, and substantially better lift to drag ratio, lower cost of a single engine, better range, and can carry more fuel as a result of lowered weight.

So, the above are just some SAMPLE SCENARIOS AND CONFIGURATIONS that may or may not benefit the AF requirements, depending on what it is. Some AF strategists may decide to go for a single engine air craft with a second engine, so they can rotate the engines and achieve much higher sortie rates, as engines can get rotated out in about 30 minutes allowing the air craft to fly multiple sorties per day.

So the AF has to consider whether single engine or twin is ideal for their requirements, what max take off weight do they need, what weapons load the need, what range do they need, etc. and then decide on the design and configuration.

Swept back wings require more maintenance, but CAN offer (depending on design implementation) much better max take off weight (hence applications like, F-14, FB-111, Su-17/22, Su24, Mig23, Tornado, B-1, Tu22, Tu160, etc. ). It was researched heavily in 1930s by German aviation scientists. All blue prints stolen by U.S. (shared with the Brits) and Russia.

f-14a-2.png


F-14 can also have fixed wing, and can be design with a single or still twin engine configuration.

Also the engine can be brought closer together for design requirements, if needs be.

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The engine(s) can also be designed to be placed on top.

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Engines on top need to be designed with great attention to a) Inlet flow recovery, b) Inlet flow distortion, c) Inlet Mach distribution. A few other things as well.

With every design, there are pros and cons. So AF requirements have to be near perfect in its crystal clarity, with detailed criteria analysis.

Finally, an AF has to decide with its political branch, and government, parliament, congress, etc. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY NEED AND CAN GET ... once that is clear, then choosing an air craft is much easier.

With regards to Iran, my own opinion is that they need ...

a) A single competent platform with long combat range, with BVR capability, long range missiles, good enough radar/avionics, aerial refueling, secure data link, and hopefully ECM/ECCM/IRCM

b) An air craft that does not cost a lot, is indigenous = 100% maintained and parts supplied, internally inside the country

c) Allows for large numbers to be built, and get our pilots up to date with training, new air combat tactics, and well trained maintenance crews (practice makes perfect)

There are a few other things I can think of, BUT considering where Iran is today, I would be happy with the above.

What platforms can Iran REALISTICALLY develop on its own to potentially deliver the above a/b/c ???

- F-14 can, if the engines are more powerful like AL21F (weighs a quarter ton less each, and has about 25% more afterburner, and 60% more non-afterburner thrust), offering a higher take off weight, more fuel to carry, reduced drag due to AL21F reduced engine air intake, and weight savings. A much better hybrid radar can be integrated with weapons systems like Fakour 90 (hopefully better missiles at the caliber of Phoenix but more modern components with ECM and better thermal batteries, etc.). Iran is already able to do the Wingbox, Swing Wing Servos, Swing Wing Actuators and Spindle. Titanium is an issue, but Iran is currently on a good track with that.

- F-4e can, may be even somewhat easier than F-14. The engines will be the easiest, since AL21F is almost same dimensions as the J79, in weight, length, width and Iran has F-4Ds, they can design radar housing with space for solid state power amplifiers, processors, coolant, oxygen generator, and can develop and integrate the under belly fuel tank. The only problem they have to solve is the weak landing gears (main).

f4-1.png


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Hope I gave you some ideas, food for thought, potential scenarios, and possibilities.

The design and development and final platform is easy, compared to how hard it is to have a CLEAR DECISION ALONG WITH THE POLITICAL WILL AND THE CAPITAL on what Iran needs short-term to mid-term and what STRATEGIES it is meant to fulfill. Hope Iran AF or AF planners and decision makers have a GREAT JUDGEMENT. I can only pray and hope it is the case.
 
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Just research Zionist Russian Oligarchs. That will let you know the extent of Zionist

Ain’t no way they are betraying their (true) motherland for some lousy arms deals. And in no way would Iran ever intervene to save mother Russia.

Iran didn’t intervene in Syria to save Assad, it intervened to save Shiite crescent and itself. Hell some in IRGC thought Iran should let Assad fall and negotiate with West over his replacement to satisfy all parties.

This Russo-Persian Alliance will never materialize. Russian is too stubborn and Iran doesn’t see Russia as a brother. It would be a fractured alliance at best.

S-400 or S-500 and some trainers could materialize. But SU-35? It would be risky on Iran, repeating the same mistake with the F-14 tomcats. If one day Russia and Iranian relations break completely apart, can Iran keep SU-35’s flying?

Without some ToT or allowing Iran to do all maintenance vis a vi a learning program for Iranian engineers, the risk of such a deal is high for Iran.

I should add I fully support acquiring SU-30, SU-35 and SU-57 it will give massive technology injection to Iran’s domestic program just being able to touch and observe these aircraft daily (even without any ToT). I’m just skeptical if Russia would ever provide any such aircraft.
As I have posted before, Russia today is very weak and if they did not have nukes, they would be Yugoslavia today and Balkanized. There is indeed strong Zionist influence, but in Russian military, especially the GRU, there is awareness of Russian need to create some alliances. The US and NATO are sitting in historical Russian heartland of Ukraine and Russia is largely impotent. However, I see a very remote chance of Russia selling Iran any sophisticated weaponry. A few military exchanges is the extent of "Russian-Iranian alliance". I personally favor a nuclear armed Iran as the best security.
 
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