Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Mithridates]

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[skyshadow]

 

[Mithridates]

this image sends a message to enemy: if you run to the deserts with your tent, we will find you and will put a missile in your ***.

 

[VEVAK]

I’m curious how you think an exit is going to avoid satellite detection. From what I saw of satellite images of Fordow, it has two main exits. In case of these missile bases, An exit needs to allow the removal of missile by something the size of a TEL. So it wouldn’t be a “shaft” but rather a tunnel size exit.

Furthermore, there cannot be “random” exits along the mountain because that defies logic. A TEL while having some off road capability cannot just go up and down rugged mountain edges while carrying a sensitive solid fuel missile. Thus any exits from the mountain would built near a dirt road and again visible to recon sats.

So that type of exit is not exactly going to be easy to hide especially with technologies such as SAR or even imagining technologies much more advanced than that (classified) that can pick up changes to earths foundation/dirt.

Like I said, US has been facing underground bases since 1940s through the Cold War and through rise of nuclear Communist China. It knows a thing or two about finding these types of bases. Never underestimate your enemy.

In the past, Soviet Union and China used such bases to cement second strike capability and project Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) Doctrine. The enemy could not be sure that it could relabily destroy all of the other party’s nuclear weapons in a first strike salvo, thus such bases created nuclear survivability deterrence.

In Iran’s case, these bases also serve as deterrence. However, once war breaks out deterrence is lost because the enemy will attack the bases irregardless because the worst case scenario and doing nothing are the same result for the enemy.

Worst case scenario for US is the base is still operational after an concerted attack by B-2’s carrying MOABs flanked by F-22’s for air to air protection. Iran then fires BMs in retaliation from said base.

If the US does nothing and leaves these bases alone, then Iran likely fires BMs during course of war from those bases anyway.

Like I said, same result.


Some examples of Iran underground missile bases

I don't think Iran is under any illusion that the U.S. can see them the question is what can the U.S. do about them?

How many B-2 Bombers armed with MOAB's would the U.S. risk sending over protected Airspace? It's not like these bases have no defenses and it's not like Iran only has a handful of them and it's not like the U.S. can see how they are structured underground so even if they deploy half their B-2 fleet against missile bases how many missile bases would they actually be able to disable and for how long would they remain disabled?

And the fact that Iran knows that the U.S. can see them and monitor them via sat means Iran would no doubt take various types of countermeasures like building hidden and or berried entrances, building decoy's,.....


Plus If like before Iran's main and only means of deterrence and retaliatory capabilities was it's Air Force against a power such as the U.S. they could have easily disabled Iran's ability to launch fighter by taking out our runways and fighters inside aircraft shelters and bunkers using cruise missiles and SDB's type ordnances released from +100km out and they would have only needed to focus on a dozen or so Air Bases during their initial strike and most of Iran's retaliatory capabilities would have been wiped out but today Iran has accurate solid fuel missiles like the Dezful, Zolfaghar and Fatteh that are relatively small and mobile, can be hidden anywhere, don't require large fuel tanks for fuel and can be launched against the enemy with relatively high accuracy very quickly to as far as 1000km away

 

[PeeD]

Well VEVAK, people must also realize that Iran has entered a new era in air defense. Sending B2's or airpower in general to knock out such heavily hardened bases is extremely difficult in Iran.

The reason I like the 3rd Khordad even more than the Bavar 373 is because it can be anywhere, in any warhouse, disguised as any truck. Just a single vehicle.

Anything picked up by any early warning system will trigger a 3rd Khordad or Tabas to come out and engage if anything is in it's kill zone. Secure transit or a SEAD campaign has become a monumental task with this new generation of air defenses.

This is the concept the IRGC-ASF has developed to protect its main strike assets: The missile forces.

Things have changed dramatically. No SA-2/HQ-2/Sayyad or HAWK sites will protect those bases, but 3rd Khordad and Tabas all around the country... Not a dozen of fixed early warning radars will find targets but a vast network of mobile systems of many different kinds.
The US never got a taste of anything even remotely similar to that. In fact the missile cities are almost immune to conventional warfare, their goal is to remain survivable against nuclear warfare.

 

[skyshadow]

Well VEVAK, people must also realize that Iran has entered a new era in air defense. Sending B2's or airpower in general to knock out such heavily hardened bases is extremely difficult in Iran.

The reason I like the 3rd Khordad even more than the Bavar 373 is because it can be anywhere, in any warhouse, disguised as any truck. Just a single vehicle.

Anything picked up by any early warning system will trigger a 3rd Khordad or Tabas to come out and engage if anything is in it's kill zone. Secure transit or a SEAD campaign has become a monumental task with this new generation of air defenses.

This is the concept the IRGC-ASF has developed to protect its main strike assets: The missile forces.

Things have changed dramatically. No SA-2/HQ-2/Sayyad or HAWK sites will protect those bases, but 3rd Khordad and Tabas all around the country... Not a dozen of fixed early warning radars will find targets but a vast network of mobile systems of many different kinds.
The US never got a taste of anything even remotely similar to that. In fact the missile cities are almost immune to conventional warfare, their goal is to remain survivable against nuclear warfare.

Tabas system with Taeer 1 ( A ) missiles, first generation

range : 50 KM

altitude : 20 KM

Tabas system with Taeer 2 missiles, second generation

range : 75 KM

altitude : 27 KM

Tabas system with Taeer 2 ( A ) missiles, upgraded second generation

range : classified

altitude : classified

Tabas system with Taeer 2 ( C ) missiles, fully upgraded second generation

range : 105 KM

altitude : 27 _ 30 KM

Tabas system with Taeer ( 1 , 2A , 2C )

3th Khordad system with Taeer 2C missiles

3th Khordad system with Sayyad 2C missiles the most advanced of them all, that we know

 

[TheImmortal]

Does anyone know why in this day and age, Air defense systems are still surrounded by a wall of dirt?

 

[skyshadow]

Well VEVAK, people must also realize that Iran has entered a new era in air defense. Sending B2's or airpower in general to knock out such heavily hardened bases is extremely difficult in Iran.

The reason I like the 3rd Khordad even more than the Bavar 373 is because it can be anywhere, in any warhouse, disguised as any truck. Just a single vehicle.

Anything picked up by any early warning system will trigger a 3rd Khordad or Tabas to come out and engage if anything is in it's kill zone. Secure transit or a SEAD campaign has become a monumental task with this new generation of air defenses.

This is the concept the IRGC-ASF has developed to protect its main strike assets: The missile forces.

Things have changed dramatically. No SA-2/HQ-2/Sayyad or HAWK sites will protect those bases, but 3rd Khordad and Tabas all around the country... Not a dozen of fixed early warning radars will find targets but a vast network of mobile systems of many different kinds.
The US never got a taste of anything even remotely similar to that. In fact the missile cities are almost immune to conventional warfare, their goal is to remain survivable against nuclear warfare.

and there is another classified air defence missile named Sadid 630, i do not know its specifications but its huge God damn it, its a huge missile even bigger than Taeer 2C

 

[Mithridates]

Does anyone know why in this day and age, Air defense systems are still surrounded by a wall of dirt?

i'm not sure but i saw some other countries do the same, maybe they hope considering a projectile heading angle it hit the barrier and reduce the damage or maybe low profile flight characteristic of cruise missiles is the reason.
also you are assuming that the CEP of enemy weapon is zero but in real world it is not, so it's better to have something to protect the system from shrapnels.

 

[Blue In Green]

i'm not sure but i saw some other countries do the same, maybe they hope considering a projectile heading angle it hit the barrier and reduce the damage or maybe low profile flight characteristic of cruise missiles is the reason.
also you are assuming that the CEP of enemy weapon is zero but in real world it is not, so it's better to have something to protect the system from shrapnels.

Sounds perfectly logical.

 

[arashkamangir]

and there is another classified air defence missile named Sadid 630, i do not know its specifications but its huge God damn it, its a huge missile even bigger than Taeer 2C


View attachment 563384

Weren't there a discussion about Sadid-630 being an antisat weapon? If I recall correctly from IMF days, someone estimated the size to be double of Taer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[PeeD]

Does anyone know why in this day and age, Air defense systems are still surrounded by a wall of dirt?

When they sink down the SAMs from a erected position, system and missile basically get protected from any munition that does not land inside the berm. The SA-2 is the most famous example here.

Overpressure/heat of a explosion or shrapnel expands roughly at line of sight. The 45° slope diverts the explosion and effectively a cone of protected space is created. Overpressure and shrapnel in this cone are not sufficient to go above the systems safety margin.

Then the other point is that nations like Iran have precision degrading counter systems. They try to decrease precision of the munition to a extend that it lands outside the berm. If the precision is only affected and degraded by 10-30%, it may be sufficient for the system to survive in its protective berm.

 

[skyshadow]

Weren't there a discussion about Sadid-630 being an antisat weapon? If I recall correctly from IMF days, someone estimated the size to be double of Taer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

well yes its very bigger than Taeer missile, i do not know if its AntiSat missile but it was shown to Mr. Khamenei as part of an air defence project named Alam Al Hoda.

 

[Yaseen1]

sadam Hussain also fired antiaircraft missiles at u.s jets in 1991 gulf war but failed to down any jet so better training and strategy to use weapons is more important than possessing weapons.To use sam alot of training is needed in simulated war like conditions but I doubt iran not have better training in this regard

 

[gambit]

A missile is a one-way or throw away weapon. Live missile firing for training is at least months in planning. You have to plan for a simulated war scenario. How many simulated air threats are you anticipating? From which direction(s)? Day or night? Will the simulated threat be continuous or a one-time event?

For a country that must import their defense, its stores of missiles will be limited as the country can only purchase X quantity per contract. This means live missile firing for training is even more scarce.

Even for a country that can produce its defense, stores are not unlimited. If the simulated threat is not plausible, live firings will be wasted and the crews trained for an imaginary threat.

No matter what, lack of intelligence and poor understanding of a potential adversary will produce flawed training scenarios and wasted ammo. Iran do not have the understanding of US air threats as people think.