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None of those give the capability of artillery, which is constant, precise, heavy firepower.

In 10 years from now maybe Iran develops something like this


It takes 3 min's to stop setup and for 6 guys to fire 5 shells

And here what accuracy???



Yes it makes a lot of noise and puts out a lot of shrapnel but it's anything but precise an armed Jet powered UAV you can fly into a window and take out the target and that way you don't destroy a bunch of building that you don't really need to destroy

And if your wanna bring hell to a town nothing does it better than Rocket Artillery


Gun artillery, rocket artillery, and cruise missiles (!!!) all have their own place, VEVAK.

Please don't try to tell me gun artillery can be replaced by any one of these things.

Gun artillery gets 155 mm shells 25-30 km downrange at a rate of multiple shells per minute, per gun. In some situations base bleed and RAP may be used but these are rare since regular, accessible firepower is the job of artillery, not specialised firepower. That's for western artillery, the Russians like their artillery to hit harder and further, the RAP in the latest Russian SP artillery gives up to 70 km range.

Rocket artillery lays out a massive amount of (very inaccurate) longer ranged firepower, but with a long reload time and is only really used for devastating large troop concentrations or as a shock tactic.

Cruise missiles are for relatively long range precision strikes against HVTs.

They all fill very different roles with different capabilities that complement each other. No numbers required.


This is the future now you can have electric power versions or pulse jet powered versions at the end of the day accuracy beats a massive explosion that destroys property of innocent by standards which makes you loose the war of harts and minds and creates hatred


It doesn't matter how right your politics are and your reasons for attacking but if you kill some kids father or a families property in the process of taking out the enemy you create hatred

I'm not saying the psychological factor isn't an important factor for a shock and awe it's it! but there are other more modern way's to get it! due to moor's law & advances in composites, explosives & 3D printing

And Cruise Missiles your talking about are expensive! I'm talking about a powerplant that cost less to build than an RC Turbojet engine
Or a very cheep pulse jet engine for ranges under 50km equipped with $50(day)-$100(night) camera with cheep receivers & transponders on a light composite airframe with the aircraft being remote operated so semi automated flight control in a swarm

and you can get high accuracy & higher rate of fire at about the same cost as a heavy Gun!
 
Yes it makes a lot of noise and puts out a lot of shrapnel but it's anything but precise an armed Jet powered UAV you can fly into a window and take out the target

Artillery isn't for going into windows and busting up some command centre or something... artillery guns are made in the hundreds or thousands, you send them to the front line and make life hell for some bunker, road (supply line), trench, whatever you can hit within 30 km or so from the front line.

Now you tell me cruise missiles are more cost effective at harassing and breaking down an entire infantry battalion or division with hundreds or thousands of troops in a few days... or a key position being assaulted, you want to send unguided rockets in close proximity to your own troops?

These are extremely basic concepts of war. I don't even know why I wrote so much already. Cruise missiles are strategic assets, whereas artillery is tactical.

Now I'll wait for you to tell me how you are going to make up for the over 700 shells an American artillery battery can pump out in 1 hour, with cruise missiles...
 
Artillery wins wars, its always been like that, whom ever can bring more firepower to the table will be most probable winner, and being able to pump out 700 shells at an enemy in a hour is a sure good way to win a war. The shells bring more constant firepower and are faster to produce and easy to store.


Our artillery systems are definitely, definitely poor, in every standard! Yet another reason to justify increase military budget, and competent non corrupt artesh leadership
 
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700 shells at an enemy in a hour

700+ accurate, 155 mm, long ranged shells an hour... from a single battery of 6 guns.

Our artillery systems are definitely, definitely poor, in every standard! Yet another reason to justify increase military budget, and competent non corrupt artesh leadership

I don't think it is the artesh leadership's fault. They've been doing what they can with their very limited funds. I just think it is time the military-political leadership gave more priority to the artesh. This will require concessions from the IRGC which I hope they are responsible enough to give.
 
700+ accurate, 155 mm, long ranged shells an hour... from a single battery of 6 guns.



I don't think it is the artesh leadership's fault. They've been doing what they can with their very limited funds. I just think it is time the military-political leadership gave more priority to the artesh. This will require concessions from the IRGC which I hope they are responsible enough to give.

Artesh in general wants fancy toys that are not Iranian built. They find excuses not to move forward with Iranian projects, but at the same time show off crude Iranian projects that will probably never get a green light to mass production.

And several users complaining about why Iran doesn't have the latest toy.....today its artillery pieces. I mean seriously artillery pieces? Last I checked North Korea has a bunch of old artillery pieces aimed at Seoul and it is one of its biggest deterrence it has right now.

Its called priorities, iran is not going to spend money on an area that is currently a non priority....that is what having A BUDGET MEANS.

Since the chance of a major land invasion of Iran in next few years is remote and since Iran's neighbors (Iraq and afghanistan) aren't going to be declaring war on Iran anytime soon....then having the latest artillery is again not a major priority.
 
Artesh in general wants fancy toys that are not Iranian built. They find excuses not to move forward with Iranian projects, but at the same time show off crude Iranian projects that will probably never get a green light to mass production.

And several users complaining about why Iran doesn't have the latest toy.....today its artillery pieces. I mean seriously artillery pieces? Last I checked North Korea has a bunch of old artillery pieces aimed at Seoul and it is one of its biggest deterrence it has right now.

Its called priorities, iran is not going to spend money on an area that is currently a non priority....that is what having A BUDGET MEANS.

Since the chance of a major land invasion of Iran in next few years is remote and since Iran's neighbors (Iraq and afghanistan) aren't going to be declaring war on Iran anytime soon....then having the latest artillery is again not a major priority.

Just wait and see what kind hellfire those outdated NK artillerary pieces will bring upon the South.
 
Last I checked North Korea has a bunch of old artillery pieces aimed at Seoul

They have an enemy city close by that they can annihilate with artilllery. Their artillery isn't really meant to fight another army. We are not in that position.

And you don't need precision to hit a city.
 
is iranian artillery really in such a bad shape some people here are saying?
is it beyond iran technological capabilities and know how, how to produce new stuff or its all about money?
artillery systems are not that high tech and should be possible to develop it indigenously
 
is iranian artillery really in such a bad shape some people here are saying?

The majority of it is old, has a shorter range than modern systems, and lack ballistic computers which are standard in modern systems.
 
Artillery isn't for going into windows and busting up some command centre or something... artillery guns are made in the hundreds or thousands, you send them to the front line and make life hell for some bunker, road (supply line), trench, whatever you can hit within 30 km or so from the front line.

Now you tell me cruise missiles are more cost effective at harassing and breaking down an entire infantry battalion or division with hundreds or thousands of troops in a few days... or a key position being assaulted, you want to send unguided rockets in close proximity to your own troops?

These are extremely basic concepts of war. I don't even know why I wrote so much already. Cruise missiles are strategic assets, whereas artillery is tactical.

Now I'll wait for you to tell me how you are going to make up for the over 700 shells an American artillery battery can pump out in 1 hour, with cruise missiles...

LOL! Countries don't have Artillery guns in the hundreds of thousands if that was the case I would agree with you!
Iran at the highest estimates has well under 10,000 Towed & SP-Artillery combined!!!!!!!

The cruise missiles your thinking of cost $1million USD per unit what I'm talking about is practically a modified armed RC powered RC aircraft each costing under $2000 USD per unit & $200K worth of ground equipment

At a low end it will cost Iran at least $1 Million USD on 155mm version that uses Titanium for weight reduction or $500,000 on a heavier version for just the gun not including the shells!
 
LOL! Countries don't have Artillery guns in the hundreds of thousands

I know, that's why I said hundreds or thousands.

The cruise missiles your thinking of cost $1million USD per unit what I'm talking about is practically a modified armed RC powered RC aircraft each costing under $2000 USD per unit

A jet powered suicide drone basically... even that would cost far more than $2000.

FYI, a standard 155 mm NATO HE shell costs about $500.
 
700+ accurate, 155 mm, long ranged shells an hour... from a single battery of 6 guns.



I don't think it is the artesh leadership's fault. They've been doing what they can with their very limited funds. I just think it is time the military-political leadership gave more priority to the artesh. This will require concessions from the IRGC which I hope they are responsible enough to give.

Why concessions, why not just increase holistically the entire budget so everyone benefits.

is iranian artillery really in such a bad shape some people here are saying?
is it beyond iran technological capabilities and know how, how to produce new stuff or its all about money?
artillery systems are not that high tech and should be possible to develop it indigenously

It's a money/resource allocation issue. Iran works on an asinine shoe string budget which severely hinders its capacity to turn out top-quality equipment in ALL fields. Iran is proficient in missiles, radars, speed boats, UAVS, and some other things.
 
just out of curiosity
BIDEC 2017 (Bahrain):Leonardo Italy improved M60-A3

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I know, that's why I said hundreds or thousands.



A jet powered suicide drone basically... even that would cost far more than $2000.

FYI, a standard 155 mm NATO HE shell costs about $500.

If you do mass production of the engine, Airframe, shape charged explosive your self NO it wouldn't! Even if you had to import the transmitter, receiver & all the electronics even if you base it on the components of an imported smartphone on a high end model it still wouldn't cost a penny over $2000 per unit!!!!!!!!

Your talking about a missile that's under 6ft long & less than 6 inches in diameter and under 5kg warhead preferably 4kg shape charged with 1kg of gunpowder and fragments so even if you place the Airframe off Carbon fiber rather than fiber glass & aluminum it still would NOT cost over $2000 per unit

And for the ground control of a high end model your looking at max $150K com's & electronics (about the same price as a Cell tower in the US) + $100K on a lightly armored mid size truck (ceramic + fiberglass or Kevlar) + 4 launchers so even on a larger longer range (100km) Higher payload (50-100lb) $20,000 version you can get the ground equipment + 10 Missiles with about the same price as an Artillery with 10 Shells (As long as it's not ground skimming & it's guided much like a UAV with semi autonomous terminal guidance (like the newer versions of Sadid)

At the high end would be equipping 1 out of 4 with components of a high end smart phone equipped with an extended WIFI antenna for wifi communication with the other 3 with the other 3 being semi autonomous

30km is not a lot of rang you can use a wide range of equipment for 2 way communication a lot cheaper and lighter than the ones Iran's Mohajer-4 uses

preferably future upgrades will be more autonomous with the ability to detect armed vehicle, tanks, helos,..... and in the future men armed with a gun or RPG

Building a small Turbojet Engine is really not that hard at all especially ones with 10-15 min life span
Engines on RC Jet engines are built to be reused you can use cheaper alloys for a 10-15min lifespan
Building a pulse Jet engine that uses diesel fuel is even simpler and cheaper
Building small electric fuel pumps is cheep and easy

These are hobbyist's using off the shelf equipment and they don't have the funding of a military industry and a country behind them & they are not mass producing & are using reusable airframe, engines,.....

A pulse jet engine version if mass produced won't even cost Iran $1000 per unit you can easily build the engine for $100

Jet engine version would be fast enough to hunt down Helo's

And on one mid size truck Iran can carry the equipment to launch 4 at time on a cheep version & you can launch 4 per min or spend a little more money for a rocket launched or a compressed air launched version launched at a faster pace from tubes or other types of launchers

You can build lighter but slower version powered by electric engines lunched using compressed air from a tube for low noise that can be lunched from tubes like mortars and can carry as much explosive as an RPG-7


This is the future! Heavy guns are the past! unguided mortars are the past! And yes infantry electronic warfare capability is increasing but so is autonomy that will render them useless

This is war with Moors Law in effect electronics are becoming so cheep that the cost of metal alone on larger equipment are just not worth going with outdated equipment like artillery! add to that the light weight factor of composites, solid state memory storage devices, CAD assisted tools, industrial robots & 3D printing!

I'm not saying Iran doesn't need artillery but the time spent, R&D funding spent, tools and equipment used & alloy's used should have gone towards lighter and far more high tech equipment than investing in a new Artillery especially if that artillery is not fully automated!
 

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