Iranian Empires and Dynasties

[ASQ-1918]

Iran or Acem or whatever its called in different times is remained as a geographical term, just like how Rum or Anatolia remained as a Geoghraphical term, as long as "Iranian" here is used in such way and not in ethnic way , I don't have a problem with them being called Iranian.

Indeed. I don't think we should go as far as saying "they don't have anything to do with Iran", they are indeed part of Iran's history. As long as some people don't try to twist the facts.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Seljuks are the ancestors of Turks and Azeris. They could speak Persian but they still considered themselves as Turkish.

The Khwarazmian rulers were all Turkic

Ilkhanate was obviously Mongol

Timurids were mixed Turkic-Mongols

Safavids were probably the most Iranian but the rulers were still Oghuz Turks and Qizilbashs, through they got completely Persianized as Isfahan became the captial of the empire

Afsharids were originally from Afshar tribe of the Oghuz Turks

Qajars were a Qizilbash Turkic family

So Persian rulers were also mostly Turkic just like Hindustan.
.............................

 

[KingMamba]

Looks like Present day Pakistan used to be part of Persian Empires of the Past....

Basically half has historically been related to Western Empires while the other half Eastern.

 

[jaunty]

Basically half has historically been related to Western Empires while the other half Eastern.

It seems Indus was the dividing line. Even today people on the east and west of Indus are relatively different culturally, although population wise the eastern half dominates heavily (~75%).

 

[INDIC]

Basically half has historically been related to Western Empires while the other half Eastern.

Most of the western empires stopped at the bank of Indus river.

 

[nForce]

@kouroshkourosh great topic.. Would like to see some literature as well

 

[rmi5]

You guys should stop these 'Turkic this Turkic that' things, the same is right for those who try to prove that all these empires are Persian somehow.

What do you mean by stop using Turkic? how they can be persian? It is like calling Roman empire as a Berber empire since they ruled berbers. What are you saying, is exactly called twisting history.

These empires are all part of Iran's history and most of their rulers were born and raised in geographical boundaries called Iran now and were not 'foreign invaders'. Now being a Turk doesn't contradict being part of Iran's history, since Iran doesn't only belong to Persians. You don't have to be Persian to be part of Iran's history. They all have influenced our culture, language, history and even current borders of the country. So yes, they are Iranian empires, and they can be Turkic at the same time, these two does not contradict each other. Right now, a large portion of our country are Turks too, and they are Iranian Turks.

The word Iranian has two separate meanings. One of them means everyone who is a citizen of Iran, this person may even be originally from Poland. in this sense we are Iranians. The second meaning of the word is "Iranian People" like Farsis, tajiks, Hazara, Pashthun, ... in which, in this sense, we are not Iranians, and we are Turks. These dynasties were ruling in a geographical place called Iran, so they are part of Iran, and also afghanistan ,... history, but they were not Iranian, and they were Turkic.

Only people who are obsessed with races participate in these kinds of debates.

If an American-Nigerian becomes president of US, no one will cry out loud that Africans are ruling Americans, everyone would say a citizen of the US, which is a multi-ethnicial and multi-cultural country, is ruling in America, however he may not be an Anglo-Saxon.

If everyone understands this, we wouldn't witness these childish fights in this forum anymore.

Basically, you guys are the one who always start these debates. You, yourself, even posted a picture of so called Armenian protests, a few days ago, which was a racial trolling.

 

[Hack-Hook]

What do you mean by stop using Turkic? how they can be persian? It is like calling Roman empire as a Berber empire since they ruled berbers. What are you saying, is exactly called twisting history.


The word Iranian has two separate meanings. One of them means everyone who is a citizen of Iran, this person may even be originally from Poland. in this sense we are Iranians. The second meaning of the word is "Iranian People" like Farsis, tajiks, Hazara, Pashthun, ... in which, in this sense, we are not Iranians, and we are Turks. These dynasties were ruling in a geographical place called Iran, so they are part of Iran, and also afghanistan ,... history, but they were not Iranian, and they were Turkic.

Basically, you guys are the one who always start these debates. You, yourself, even posted a picture of so called Armenian protests, a few days ago, which was a racial trolling.

well , it's Iranian dynasties not persian Dynasties .
and by the way here an Azeri is considered Iranian not Turk as a kurd or lor or baluch or gilaki is considered Iranian,



and by the way here somebody said ilkhanate were mongol and not Iranian . well they were strange mongols could not speak mongolian but wrote poems in persian language.
people laughed when we consider ghaznavian as Iranian but they forget they were the people who commissioned Shahnameh which is considered the most prominent poetry in persian language

 

[Serpentine]

What do you mean by stop using Turkic? how they can be persian? It is like calling Roman empire as a Berber empire since they ruled berbers. What are you saying, is exactly called twisting history.

I thought people are supposed to understand English very well when they visit an international forum. When did I say anything like the bold part? You shouldn't put words in others mouths. My comment was also meant for those who are obsessed with 'Persian this, Persian that', basically 2 opposite groups which are wrong at the same time.

The word Iranian has two separate meanings. One of them means everyone who is a citizen of Iran, this person may even be originally from Poland. in this sense we are Iranians. The second meaning of the word is "Iranian People" like Farsis, tajiks, Hazara, Pashthun, ... in which, in this sense, we are not Iranians, and we are Turks. These dynasties were ruling in a geographical place called Iran, so they are part of Iran, and also afghanistan ,... history, but they were not Iranian, and they were Turkic.

When you say 'we', you are suggesting that you are the official representative of Turks in Iran or their spokesperson, while you are not. I never talk on behalf of any specific ethnic group, but you do, which is wrong.

Secondly, by Iranian, I didn't mean any racial aspect of the word, but the nationality. There is no pure race in ME or the world anymore and Nazi Germany and Nazism are long gone to advocate racial advantages. people don't have any advantages based on their races. I don't care about 'Iranic' groups, like Tajiks in this discussion. We used to be part of the same empire at times, and now, except the language, we barely have anything in common. So, all those empires are parts of Iran's history and their rulers, excluding few of them, were part of current cultural and geographical sphere, called Iran, so they were as Iranian as Persians, since they also had lived there for hundreds of years. They respected and spread culture and language of Iranians in their era, not doing vice versa.

Basically, you guys are the one who always start these debates. You, yourself, even posted a picture of so called Armenian protests, a few days ago, which was a racial trolling.

It seems you see everything through racial glasses and this needs to stop. I posted that demonstration as a news and if some other day, any other group holds any demonstration in Iran, say aliens for example, I will post it too and there is no problem here.

I didn't say anything whether their cause is justified or not or the massacre happened or not and I never debate about it on the forum.

 

[rmi5]

well , it's Iranian dynasties not persian Dynasties .
and by the way here an Azeri is considered Iranian not Turk as a kurd or lor or baluch or gilaki is considered Iranian,

I just explained the differences between two meaning of the word Iranian. BTW, Azerbaijanis are turks who some of them have Iranian citizenship. So, some of them are also officially called Iranian.

 

[Serpentine]

@Shapur Zol Aktaf @rmi5

You either cut the trolling and insults or you will be thread banned like others today.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

''Iranian Empires and Dynasties''

The title does not claim what you say @Serpentine .


If you say iranian and dynasties, then you approach the situation by ethnic perspective, not geographical, culturel etc ones.

So you should as a mod be more carefull with the terms so as to not seem in the same league with the one WHO opens this thread with some insecurity proplems.

 

[Serpentine]

''Iranian Empires and Dynasties''

The title does not claim what you say @Serpentine .


If you say iranian and dynasties, then you approach the situation by ethnic perspective, not geographical, culturel etc ones.

So you should as a mod be more carefull with the terms so as to not seem in the same league with the one WHO opens this thread with some insecurity proplems.

Iran is not an ethnic group name or a race, in case you didn't know. The thread title is fine and doesn't violate any rules. No need to continue this discussion here. Off topic posts will be deleted. If you have any words, send a PM to me.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Iran is the geographical name for now; but Iranian is not. However, you still inisist on that.

Iran: A country in the Middle East, between the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf

Iran: definition of Iran in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

Iranian: A native or inhabitant of Iran, or a person of Iranian descent.

Iranian: definition of Iranian in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

I soon start to open an education center...

 

[Sam1980]

I soon start to open an education center...

Before you do that, learn proper English.
Otherwise your students might not understand you.