Iranian border guards on the Pakistan border.

[Daneshmand]

this thread is becoming more and more entertaining.
So you saw how much law enforcement and heavy armed presence of Law enforcement agencies we have from borders to deep inside the province. You saw it yourself?
So is it a laughing matter as you portray it or matter of praise that how serious Pakistan is about controlling Baloch drug/war/smuggling gang lords?

But same is not true for Iran. Too easy to drive in with a truck, buy oil for smuggling and along the way carry drugs .
So now that you an Iraniam has provided eye witness account that Pakistan has enough armed presence, its Iran who needs to do more.

You are just being an ignorant bigot. Pakistan could have and should have eliminated those bandits, going after their feudal lords who have their own private armies and private jails torturing people in Pakistan. The mere fact that Pakistan has allowed these kind of elements to exist, only creates problem for the region.

But I was talking from perspective of Iran, not what you have done or should have done. From perspective of Iran, what ever you have done or not done, has not worked in favor of Iran. Therefore Iran must beef up its border security with Pakistan. Basically wall out the chaos of Pakistan so that it does not creep into Iran. The rest what happens in Pakistan has become irrelevant to Iran since it has even become irrelevant to Pakistanis themselves.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And the

@Antanz

1. Pakistan supported Afghan groups due to existential threat as USSR had to be defeated by indirect war.

What threat Iran faced for their support of Shia militant groups of Iran.
They were already in Soviet Block? Pakistan was in US block?
Correct me if i am wrong..

Iran WAS not in the Soviet block. Communism and Islamic revolution do not go togather. They are like oil and water. Soon after the 1979 revolution lot of left leaning socialist Tudeh Party who were pro Soviet Union were arrested, prisoned or killed.

"Quite quickly the government arrested and imprisoned its leadership and later more than 10,000 members of the party. During February 1983, the leaders of the Tudeh Party were arrested and the Party disbanded, leaving Iran effectively a one-party state"

Tudeh Party of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• About Iran Iraq. Yes Iraq may have attackef Iran but subsequently they did extend offers of truce which were rejected by Iran to continue the war.

If I jumped on you started to beat you in the face you would fight back. Half way through if you start winning and I shout "truce, truce" it would be for you to decide when to stop. The last thing I could do is moan and b*tch that you did not stop when I cried "truce" seeing that I started it. Don't start something that you can't finish.

Ask the Germans in WW2 or the Japanese. When they start something than the other side gets to decide when it is victory.

Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.

Eh? Is Iran the only one? Everybody in the region is supporting some group. Countles civilians? Have you ever counted how many civilians Alerican's killed and others? Stop covering one eye up and looking out of the other only.

You are just being an ignorant bigot. Pakistan could have and should have eliminated those bandits, going after their feudal lords who have their own private armies and private jails torturing people in Pakistan. The mere fact that Pakistan has allowed these kind of elements to exist, only creates problem for the region.

But I was talking from perspective of Iran, not what you have done or should have done. From perspective of Iran, what ever you have done or not done, has not worked in favor of Iran. Therefore Iran must beef up its border security with Pakistan. Basically wall out the chaos of Pakistan so that it does not creep into Iran. The rest what happens in Pakistan has become irrelevant to Iran since it has even become irrelevant to Pakistanis themselves.

Sadly you right there. Lot of the problems you have on the Iranian border are not because of Pakistan government or our people's evil designs on Iran. Most of the problems are Pakistan's fault but indirectly.


We have done a poor job of nation building. I am on about the basic bricks and mortar. We have left most of Balochistan as open fiefdom with nominal control over it like in medieval ages. In this unregulated space has crawled all the misfits. Drug dealers, smugglers, terrorists. I don't have time now but I will cover this later.The result of this free for all is your feeling the effects of this as it spills over on your side of border.

 

[haman10]

1980 Iraq attacked Iran. Yes Iraq invaded Iran. Not the other way around. In Afghanistan unfortunately we supported one group they supported another. We, both should have sorted Afghanistan togather. We did not and instead America and the West walked inside.

"Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980, triggering a bitter eight-year war which destabilised the region and devastated both countries"

BBC NEWS | Middle East | The Iran-Iraq war: 25 years on

In Lebanon they are supporting a poor minority opressed by Christian/Druze Lebanese and Isreal.

@haman10 I am afraid we have lot of stupidity and it is up to the thinking people on both sides to ride over this madness. You already know various surveys have shown most Pakistani's are pro Iran despite some rabid haters.This is because of infection from the stupid Shia/Sunni schism which has raised it's ugly head in last 30 years.

I always look at France and Germany. Nowdays both are like twins but not long ago they had war after war killing millions of each other. Least we don't have that. Ours is like a mild differance so we shall overcome this. I also think Pakistan is now moving away from US and will tilt more toward China. This will begin to impact on the ground and this madness will abate. Ten years ago Pakistan would have sent the entire army to Saudia if they asked. Not anymore. Things are slowly changing.

My own feeling is Chinese investment/trade with Iran will increase massively. In particular the Chinese increasingly are not going bother about US sanctions. This further will help bring Pakistan and Iran closer. I have already checked your trade with China. It is huge and growing.

no country is saint . we all make mistakes

heck even people make mistakes , and they make lots of them .

I don't believe that Iran is out of this equation . we've had our share of mistakes , sometimes grave sometimes not .

I think one of the most grave mistakes of our foreign policy was made towards Pakistan . instead of trying to get closer to Pakistan and solve the security issues by lobbying a better military involvement by pakistan , we distant ourselves by each attack .

and look how's that been working out . very bad .

we should've tried harder and thats one of the failures of our foreign policy decision makers . there are indeed signs that it's gonna change since Iranian FM traveled to Pakistan and the upcoming nawaz's trip to Tehran

politics in Pakistan is very complicated for a foreigner like me no matter how rich my knowledge of pakistan is - due to being neighbors - none the less i can't think of a reason why we've pushed ourselves away .

the answer to regional problems is not hostility but even harder cooperation . the former has shown it's failures so many times , the latter unfortunately has never been tried in the backwarded region of ours .

 

[scythian500]

Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.

wow.... what an analysis!! I have nothing to add...! It is like saying poor ISIL terrorists are defending their land at the moment hence only victims!

or you statement is like saying: Pakistani army terminating terrorists in Pakistani mountains are terrorists who kill thousands of civilans!!

So Iranian backed Shia militia in IRAQ are killing countless civilians!!? Do you live at 2015 and in planet earth?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Dear @Atanz I think this only makes the pipeline even more important. The people of the areas as well as both countries must have economic stake to understand that peace is in their benefit.

I agree. If the gas gets flowing it would create a common synergy. Also in Pakistan it would lead to Iran's positive effect being manifested in something tangiable. You have no idea of the suffering people go through summer when electricty gets loadshedded for hours because supply can't meet demand. This lack of domestic enegy source in Pakistan is crippling the economy and people are suffering. Modern life becomes untenable without power. Fridges, air conditioners, TV, etc all switch off and think what it does to industry.

However I tell you these American;s are NOT going to let this pipe get built easy. I am very sceptical that we will see the pipe up and going before 2020. This is why I look forward to rise of China. It is not because I love some Chinese woman. It is because I am sick of a unipolar world where American can do anything it wants like a bully.

Only a multipolar world will offer some balance. This is where China could balance out USA thus give smaller countries some breathing space. Read this:-

US Security at Its Core: Sabotage China's Rise, Rule Western Hemisphere-John Mearsheimer

 

[Hack-Hook]

@Antanz

1. Pakistan supported Afghan groups due to existential threat as USSR had to be defeated by indirect war.

What threat Iran faced for their support of Shia militant groups of Iran.
They were already in Soviet Block? Pakistan was in US block?
Correct me if i am wrong.

• About Iran Iraq. Yes Iraq may have attackef Iran but subsequently they did extend offers of truce which were rejected by Iran to continue the war.

Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.

Iran in ussr block ?
Who told you this nonsense.

@Antanz

1. Pakistan supported Afghan groups due to existential threat as USSR had to be defeated by indirect war.

What threat Iran faced for their support of Shia militant groups of Iran.
They were already in Soviet Block? Pakistan was in US block?
Correct me if i am wrong.

• About Iran Iraq. Yes Iraq may have attackef Iran but subsequently they did extend offers of truce which were rejected by Iran to continue the war.

Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.

The truce offer lacked two point .
1 - recognition of the agressor
2 - retreat of forces to the borders.

 

[انگریز]

And the


Iran WAS not in the Soviet block. Communism and Islamic revolution do not go togather. They are like oil and water. Soon after the 1979 revolution lot of left leaning socialist Tudeh Party who were pro Soviet Union were arrested, prisoned or killed.

"Quite quickly the government arrested and imprisoned its leadership and later more than 10,000 members of the party. During February 1983, the leaders of the Tudeh Party were arrested and the Party disbanded, leaving Iran effectively a one-party state"

Tudeh Party of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If I jumped on you started to beat you in the face you would fight back. Half way through if you start winning and I shout "truce, truce" it would be for you to decide when to stop. The last thing I could do is moan and b*tch that you did not stop when I cried "truce" seeing that I started it. Don't start something that you can't finish.

Ask the Germans in WW2 or the Japanese. When they start something than the other side gets to decide when it is victory.



Eh? Is Iran the only one? Everybody in the region is supporting some group. Countles civilians? Have you ever counted how many civilians Alerican's killed and others? Stop covering one eye up and looking out of the other only.




Sadly you right there. Lot of the problems you have on the Iranian border are not because of Pakistan government or our people's evil designs on Iran. Most of the problems are Pakistan's fault but indirectly.


We have done a poor job of nation building. I am on about the basic bricks and mortar. We have left most of Balochistan as open fiefdom with nominal control over it like in medieval ages. In this unregulated space has crawled all the misfits. Drug dealers, smugglers, terrorists. I don't have time now but I will cover this later.The result of this free for all is your feeling the effects of this as it spills over on your side of border.

Ok, during soviet war if iRan was not in Soviet block it was not in USA block either, but Pakistan was,so Pakistan felt greater threat. It was "Halal" for Iran to support shia militants in Iran due to existential threat. Why exavtly the same thing by Pakistan for same but bigger reason is so vehemantly condemned by the liked of you and Iran?
You read plenty of Iranians in this thread and elsewhere pkaying the broken record that Pakisran created Taliban and Iran did nothing wrong. Well the فارسی بان of Afghanistan being Iran supported, do as much terrorism as taliban.

About Iran Iraq war, the bigger factor was Iran trying to topple Saddam because he was sunni. Eventually their and USA's goals matched as US also wanted to topple saddam and who knows how much of Iranian soul was sold to.USA for defeating a common eenemy.
Likewise many times Pakistan and USA wanted to get rid of common enemies. First USSR later Taliban and cooperated.
But again same thing is Halal for Iran, haram for Pakistan. The hypocracy .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Ok, during soviet war if iRan was not in Soviet block it was not in USA block either, but Pakistan was,so Pakistan felt greater threat. It was "Halal" for Iran to support shia militants in Iran due to existential threat. Why exavtly the same thing by Pakistan for same but bigger reason is so vehemantly condemned by the liked of you and Iran?
You read plenty of Iranians in this thread and elsewhere pkaying the broken record that Pakisran created Taliban and Iran did nothing wrong. Well the فارسی بان of Afghanistan being Iran supported, do as much terrorism as taliban.

About Iran Iraq war, the bigger factor was Iran trying to topple Saddam because he was sunni. Eventually their and USA's goals matched as US also wanted to topple saddam and who knows how much of Iranian soul was sold to.USA for defeating a common eenemy.
Likewise many times Pakistan and USA wanted to get rid of common enemies. First USSR later Taliban and cooperated.
But again same thing is Halal for Iran, haram for Pakistan. The hypocracy .

Long time ago I learn't that you can never win with a person who does not reason. Your post is so bereft of rationale that a 5 year old would feel ashamed. I explained already to you. However your reply managed to make the explicable inexplicable. I leave you to your tangled and mangled thinking.

 

[انگریز]

You are just being an ignorant bigot. Pakistan could have and should have eliminated those bandits, going after their feudal lords who have their own private armies and private jails torturing people in Pakistan. The mere fact that Pakistan has allowed these kind of elements to exist, only creates problem for the region.

But I was talking from perspective of Iran, not what you have done or should have done. From perspective of Iran, what ever you have done or not done, has not worked in favor of Iran. Therefore Iran must beef up its border security with Pakistan. Basically wall out the chaos of Pakistan so that it does not creep into Iran. The rest what happens in Pakistan has become irrelevant to Iran since it has even become irrelevant to Pakistanis themselves.

Sorry we are not that desperate to please Iran that we start mass murdering our Baloch population.
You admitted that far more men and weapons are deployed in Pakistan than Iran.
Thats why its easy to infilterate Iran for the gangs, kill an irani and run away.so the onus is on Iran. Why yur border security is so lame thatt gang can enter Iran easily?
Pakistan is aware of whatever is happening in Balochistan and tackling it as we wish.
If someone enters my house does damage and runs away. Police will ask me to lock my house and fit alarms, they wont ask me to go smash neighbours windows because theif may have come from there although i have no proof.
Irans blames on Pakistan as somilarly lame. And Iranian forces firing on Pakistani border forces arr stupidity and shows how childish Iran is in international relations.

Long time ago I learn't that you can never win with a person who does not reason. Your post is so bereft of rationale that a 5 year old would feel ashamed. I explained already to you. However your reply managed to make the explicable inexplicable. I leave you to your tangled and mangled thinking.

Well thanyou for that. I am quite ashamed of Pakistanis like you who prefer to defend a foreign country instead of their own. Bye

 

[Madali]

I did not dispute your desire to see Iran safe. What I disputed was your argument in this regard. You are trying to be exclusivist and saying in effect that, "no need to have any security, just throw a party and every body is going to chill and enjoy". If you think the world is that simple and that innocent, then I think you must have a very jolly life.

What you are saying is like, no need to have locks and gates at your home. Instead of spending money on locks on your home and your car, it would be better to spend that money on buying a new flat screen TV for the house and a GPS for the car.

I have said it quite often, development must happen and it is the responsibility of the government. I have been to that area. One of the main demands of people there was to be provided with piped natural gas instead of them having to buy propane tanks. Yes, it is the responsibility of the government to do that. And Iran is not a poor country that can not afford to have both security and development. Both can go hand in hand. ONLY ONE will not work as I had said above. For an economy the size of Iran, it is ridiculous to claim that Iran can not afford to secure its border.

And your numbers are all made up and completely wrong. Next time, try to estimate how much only the drug smuggling has hurt Iranian economy and Iranian society. You can not just brush things under the carpet when they go against your pre-set and prejudiced argument. By your reasons, then we do not even need to have army and police and missiles and fighter planes etc. "The money should be spent on jolly jolly parties and dilly dilly camping. No need to waste money to have security when you can party and enjoy life". Unfortunately in real life things do not work like that. Through out Iran's history, Iran has suffered when its borders were not secured and prospered when its borders were secured. And this historical lesson should not be forgotten.

I think you have completely misunderstood my post, which is probably due to my inability to explain myself well, so lets leave it at that. Thanks for your comment.