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Iranian border guards on the Pakistan border.

You don't have war in the east.
I agree . in response to this shocking post i wanted to clarify lots of things for you , but since i saw your next post here i will refrain from doing that .

just one point : the most powerful countries on earth like Israel and US who both have the deadliest weapons of mass destruction are our #1 enemies .

this is just as a reminder of who you're dealing with . Israel has nukes . she has lots of them , but here is the thing : the thought of firing those gets them annihilated . they know it , you know it , we know it .

i hope your countrymen - like the one that i'm going to quote below - understand that their sectarian enmity with Iran takes them nowhere . we stretched our hand towards you , hoping to get a warm handshake , your choice .

the ball is in your court brother . for the sake of our past shared history we'll always be there for you if you need us .

You are an absolute bigot and ignorant.
i'm not your father . those 2 words can only define your father who has raised such an immature & emotional kid .

kiddo , imagine this scenario : KSA is your neighbor . their country is unstable and they've abandoned their borders with you . terrorist wander around KSA and sometimes attack your border and cause the ultimate un-stability .

now do you have the right to protest this ridiculous situation ? or not ?

please don't confuse my friendly language with a sign of weakness .

you have to try more if you want my other side to pop up
 
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I agree . in response to this shocking post i wanted to clarify lots of things for you , but since i saw your next post here i will refrain from doing that .

just one point : the most powerful countries on earth like Israel and US who both have the deadliest weapons of mass destruction are our #1 enemies .

this is just as a reminder of who you're dealing with . Israel has nukes . she has lots of them , but here is the thing : the thought of firing those gets them annihilated . they know it , you know it , we know it .

i hope your countrymen - like the one that i'm going to quote below - understand that their sectarian enmity with Iran takes them nowhere . we stretched our hand towards you , hoping to get a warm handshake , your choice .

the ball is in your court brother . for the sake of our past shared history we'll always be there for you if you need us .


i'm not your father . those 2 words can only define your father who has raised such an immature & emotional kid .

kiddo , imagine this scenario : KSA is your neighbor . their country is unstable and they've abandoned their borders with you . terrorist wander around KSA and sometimes attack your border and cause the ultimate un-stability .

now do you have the right to protest this ridiculous situation ? or not ?

please don't confuse my friendly language with a sign of weakness .

you have to try more if you want my other side to pop up

I think you took my post out of context. If you read most of my posts you would know my stance on Iran. Because of the underlying tension my post got loaded with negative connotation when it was meant to say the opposite. Although as I said I used clumsy language.

What I was trying to say is if you you look at the entire deploymemt profile of our forces from infantry, armour air, nuclear forces they are all pointing away from you. As regards sectarianism, I regard that as the curse of our people. It has wrought so much destruction inside Pakistan.

And I am sure as soon as this sectarian wave recedes Iran and Pakistan will go back to their relations as they were pre 1979. I blame House of Saud primarily for the spread of sectarianism. We have the Wikileaks exposing the shocking level of hatred.

Although I apoogized but my post was reaction by the poster who was saying quote " the real war is in the east" and that too from some IRGC commander. Since we are on your east I took as that referance to Pakistan. Yes, I should not have reacted as the way I did. I suppose we have idiots on both sides. That means the burden falls on people like us to rise above this sort of rubbish.

And rest assured my hand is stretched out to Iran in handshake. Salaam.
 
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Lets look at Iranian recent past. 1979 bloody revolution. Many lives brutally lost. 1980 - 1988 non sense war with Iraq. Then trying to be the saviour of Shia worldwide same as Israel thinks to be the savior of jews. Support of Shia milirant groups in Afghanistan and throwing the country in civil war,which still continues. Lebanon,syria,Ieaq,Yemen. Hundreds of thousands of proples blood is on Irans hands and they have the audacity of blaming Pakistan of all sorts
 
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Lets look at Iranian recent past. 1979 bloody revolution. Many lives brutally lost. 1980 - 1988 non sense war with Iraq. Then trying to be the saviour of Shia worldwide same as Israrl thinks to be the savior of jews. Support of Shia milirant groups in Afghanistan and throwing the country in civil war,which still continues. Lebanon,syria,Ieaq,Yemen. Hundreds of thousands of proples blood is on Irans hands and they have the audacity of blaming Pakistan of all sorts
Come on. Lets be truthful here. Did we not support militant groups in Afghanistan under baba America's demands. The issue in relations between Pakistan and Iran simply is Iran has an independent foreign policy while we can't do anything without America nodding its head. Its caused us severe problems including fighting useless wars in Afghanistan-if at one time supporting militancy then at other times fighting them. A neutral stand would be much more useful for us.

Even if you do not respect Iran you should respect its independent foreign policy. Yes it is tinged by a slight shia ishness but I believe that is more because of Saudia's aggressive sunni nationalist policy. Yet Iran has had good relations with sunni majority/controlled nations too-for example sudan and they have been keen to build relations with Pakistan.
 
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Lets look at Iranian recent past. 1979 bloody revolution. Many lives brutally lost. 1980 - 1988 non sense war with Iraq. Then trying to be the saviour of Shia worldwide same as Israrl thinks to be the savior of jews. Support of Shia milirant groups in Afghanistan and throwing the country in civil war,which still continues. Lebanon,syria,Ieaq,Yemen. Hundreds of thousands of proples blood is on Irans hands and they have the audacity of blaming Pakistan of all sorts

1980 Iraq attacked Iran. Yes Iraq invaded Iran. Not the other way around. In Afghanistan unfortunately we supported one group they supported another. We, both should have sorted Afghanistan togather. We did not and instead America and the West walked inside.

"Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980, triggering a bitter eight-year war which destabilised the region and devastated both countries"

BBC NEWS | Middle East | The Iran-Iraq war: 25 years on

In Lebanon they are supporting a poor minority opressed by Christian/Druze Lebanese and Isreal.

@haman10 I am afraid we have lot of stupidity and it is up to the thinking people on both sides to ride over this madness. You already know various surveys have shown most Pakistani's are pro Iran despite some rabid haters.This is because of infection from the stupid Shia/Sunni schism which has raised it's ugly head in last 30 years.

I always look at France and Germany. Nowdays both are like twins but not long ago they had war after war killing millions of each other. Least we don't have that. Ours is like a mild differance so we shall overcome this. I also think Pakistan is now moving away from US and will tilt more toward China. This will begin to impact on the ground and this madness will abate. Ten years ago Pakistan would have sent the entire army to Saudia if they asked. Not anymore. Things are slowly changing.

My own feeling is Chinese investment/trade with Iran will increase massively. In particular the Chinese increasingly are not going bother about US sanctions. This further will help bring Pakistan and Iran closer. I have already checked your trade with China. It is huge and growing.
 
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They won't be able to do much, as evidence also shows. Neither Iran can do much by only stationing soldiers.

The only solution is to build a huge wall on border, monitored by cameras, soldiers, electrified fences and mounted automatic guns with optics to target anything moving where they should not.

how could a huge wall can block the terrorists when there exists tunnel technology.

The only thing that can secure border is a 10-50 km security zone and keep on changing.
There should be treaty that there should not be any mining by neighbors 100 kms from the borders.
The borders will become secure.
 
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@Antanz
  1. Pakistan supported Afghan groups due to existential threat as USSR had to be defeated by indirect war.
What threat Iran faced for their support of Shia militant groups of Iran.
They were already in Soviet Block? Pakistan was in US block?
Correct me if i am wrong.

  • About Iran Iraq. Yes Iraq may have attackef Iran but subsequently they did extend offers of truce which were rejected by Iran to continue the war.
Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.
 
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@Antanz
  1. Pakistan supported Afghan groups due to existential threat as USSR had to be defeated by indirect war.
What threat Iran faced for their support of Shia militant groups of Iran.
They were already in Soviet Block? Pakistan was in US block?
Correct me if i am wrong.

  • About Iran Iraq. Yes Iraq may have attackef Iran but subsequently they did extend offers of truce which were rejected by Iran to continue the war.
Also Iran to this date supports shia militant groupd in Iraq who kill countless civilians.

you are like israelis who blame others for all their crimes they themselves committed. lost in hole. LIH.
 
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Drugs are made in Afghanistan.
There isn't a single poppy field in Pakistan.
About the oil smuggling whats preventing you guys to stop it ??
yes, no field in pak... it is heroin and all sorts of deadly and non-deadly fake products that come to Iran....
oil smuggling is done by local balouchis in Iran who export illegally the heavily subsidized gasoline through trained CLOSED-EYE driver who drive at night and from the toughest terrain ever possible... They do it... Iran knows about it... in most cases local authorities just close their eyes on them as they have little other stable sources of income in some months of the year...

The problem of smuggling oil products to Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, etc is there for decades and it is very much reduced today... Iran specifically put a limit on the max liters of oil products a FUEL CARD holder can buy... This reduced smuggling a lot but still it is smugglers who find new ways to gain some out of this price difference...

No, Iranian Terrorist group goes to Pakistan in order to confront the elected Government... The opposite is true... we Pakistan a safe-heaven for all sorts of Takfiri terrorists who are mostly backed by Terrorist family of Sauds, CIA, ISI and other.... Iran has the maximum quality when it comes to national and border security... the chance of being killed in street while totally innocent in Iranian cities is million times lower than all other ME and SA nations...

and I can assure all Pakistani friends here that Iran already started a comprehensive plan to reform the border keeping system as I explained earlier... This will only leave terrorists to go back to their mountains and tribes in Afgh and Pakistan...
 
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@bozorgmehr @Daneshmand

Thank you both for your detailed responses. You have clarified your point of views very well, and I have now a much better understanding of your perspective.

Please understand that our end goal is the same (a more secure Iran), it is only our paths to that end that are different. But that's normal.

Instead of replying point by point to the comments, which might move as furthur and further away from each of our main points, let me just restate the discussion, and where I stand.

You both believe that more resources allocated to border security will resolve Iran's border issues.

My perspective is that, if we look at it in a cost-profit method, it would be ultimately an expense that could be better spend elsewhere which will better result in security.

I'm going to ignore the drug & smuggling trade for now, to keep the discussion as focused and narrow as possible.

Iran's border attack due to terrorism is generally one or two incidents per year. I am not convinced that mass allocation of resources in this 900 kms, can prevent turn this into zero. All it would take is 2-3 people from the other side to find a weak spot in the 900 kms, and slip through.

Now let's look at this from another perspective. We'll use randomly made up numbers just to get my point across, obviously the numbers mean nothing at this stage.

Let's first start with the hypothesis that no wall at this stage can reduce threat to 0%. We haven't yet seen 0% in any wall in other country, so I can't imagine a scenario where it would be possible. A tunnel, for example, is a low cost solution of bypassing walls that citizens in various countries have used and are using.

Okay, if we agree on that hypothesis, then let's say our current situation is as follows:
Terrorists Per Year: 100
Current Border Control Stops: 10%
Terrorists entering the land: 90

Now let's say we implement a new plan and 200 million Dollar Expense per Year will reduce threats by 70%. So we have,
Plan A
Terrorists Per Year: 100
Current Border Control Stops: 70%
Terrorists entering the land: 30

This obviously looks like an outstanding success. However, my argument is that the same 200 million can be used in a way to, instead of increasing the percentage of border stops, we reduce the number of terrorists. So, mine would look like, for example,

Plan B
Terrorists Per Year: 30
Current Border Control Stops: 10%
Terrorists entering the land: 27

So, this is what I mean. That the money should be focused on the first figure, not the second figure. Because if we implement Plan A, then that percentage of 70% will remain, but year by year, the terrorists will increase. So in 10 years, we will have,

Plan A in 10 Years
Terrorists Per Year: 1000
Current Border Control Stops: 70%
Terrorists entering the land: 300

Even if we keep increasing the percentage, to lets say 90%, we will have
Plan A in 10 Years with Better Security
Terrorists Per Year: 1000
Current Border Control Stops: 90%
Terrorists entering the land: 100

On the other hand, if we keep reducing the terrorists from 100 to 30 to less, and keeping the same the same security percentage, we will still have a better final figure,

Plan B in 10 Years
Terrorists Per Year: 10
Current Border Control Stops: 10%
Terrorists entering the land: 9

In the end, with a super advanced border security that stops 90%, we will have 100 attacks per year, while with a low security (10%) but high concentration on reducing tensions, we will have only 9 attacks.

I hope this better explains my take on the matter. Obviously, the numbers are made up, but it should at least clarify where I am coming from.

I did not dispute your desire to see Iran safe. What I disputed was your argument in this regard. You are trying to be exclusivist and saying in effect that, "no need to have any security, just throw a party and every body is going to chill and enjoy". If you think the world is that simple and that innocent, then I think you must have a very jolly life.

What you are saying is like, no need to have locks and gates at your home. Instead of spending money on locks on your home and your car, it would be better to spend that money on buying a new flat screen TV for the house and a GPS for the car.

I have said it quite often, development must happen and it is the responsibility of the government. I have been to that area. One of the main demands of people there was to be provided with piped natural gas instead of them having to buy propane tanks. Yes, it is the responsibility of the government to do that. And Iran is not a poor country that can not afford to have both security and development. Both can go hand in hand. ONLY ONE will not work as I had said above. For an economy the size of Iran, it is ridiculous to claim that Iran can not afford to secure its border.

And your numbers are all made up and completely wrong. Next time, try to estimate how much only the drug smuggling has hurt Iranian economy and Iranian society. You can not just brush things under the carpet when they go against your pre-set and prejudiced argument. By your reasons, then we do not even need to have army and police and missiles and fighter planes etc. "The money should be spent on jolly jolly parties and dilly dilly camping. No need to waste money to have security when you can party and enjoy life". Unfortunately in real life things do not work like that. Through out Iran's history, Iran has suffered when its borders were not secured and prospered when its borders were secured. And this historical lesson should not be forgotten.
 
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Iran is so lame that a big *** truck can drive deep into Iran unchecked. Go tap into an oil depot...unchecked.

You're slowly changing your route to non sense and BS bro... First of all, the trucks are small passenger car size pickups with local balouchi driverss with long history of driving in a NO-DRIVE zone... and it is done at the middle of the night, lights off.... although don't worry... These small trucks won't be secure anymore... Using many high tech gear will leave these thiefs no choice but to work like other respected Balouchis, or wait for the Jask-Makran development plan finish up or just emigrate to a bigger Iranian city where jobs are ample...

Since Iran has lame situation, I strongly suggest you to try to cross Iranian border on your own feet and not on trucks... I assure you a bullet in your forehead before you make it to the first Iranian city... Things are different now... Iranian border police used to be merciful, but now if you are not killed by a patrol or sniper or group of soldiers, you will definately be killed by terrorists themselves hiding in mountains...If I want NOW to cross Pakistani border or Turkmenistan or Turkey or Iraq or Armenian borders, I can bet that tomorrow night I will be crossed safe and sound... while you can not bet on the same thing...I'm not talking about totally fail states like Afghanistan...

btw, if you could cross border easily and undetected by a TRUCK we would have millions of beggars in streets of Iran instead of current thousands.This means Pakistanis neither can cross it illegally nor risk their lives to do so...

and please with all due respect for Pakistani brothers, don't even try to start a dick measuring contest with Iran... Everything about IRan and Pakistan is known... don't push it to limits that can be easily broken... you know what I mean...

let's keep it pro and about the equipment of Iranian border guards...
 
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@haman10 I am afraid we have lot of stupidity and it is up to the thinking people on both sides to ride over this madness. You already know various surveys have shown most Pakistani's are pro Iran despite some rabid haters.This is because of infection from the stupid Shia/Sunni schism which has raised it's ugly head in last 30 years.

Dear @Atanz I think this only makes the pipeline even more important. The people of the areas as well as both countries must have economic stake to understand that peace is in their benefit.
 
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So across the border we have Iranian oil being smuggled
Afghan drug trade taking place
Iranian citizens involved in terrorist activities
and all these that you say happens in a LAND called Pakistan with no guards or claimers!! These stolen oil products are injected into Pakistani economy while the gov is happy than angry... The Iranian Balouchi Terrorists trying to kill a few civilians and then go shelter in a land called Pakistan so easily that they live there in peace and recharge and come back again freely!!
Iran after the latest terrorist attack on its border announced that IRan knows well where these terrorists are living and having bases... IRan asked pakistan to arrest them and deliver them to Iran or at least let Iranian forces do the job in Pakistan.... The pakistani response was expected! They can not let foreigners do military operations in their land or sky (exactly the same as they don't let Americans to operate in their skies!!) ...

Anyway, we have seen some positive actions from the pakistani side and I hope with the help of new technological and training enforcement IRan is applying to its border forces and a helping hand from Pakistani gov, we both can get rid of these cowards...

For god's sake, because selling petrol is not illegal in Iran!!! Now unless you're ready to tell me that drug trafficking and terrorist activities are also not illegal in Pakistan, the two are not analogous with one another.....
Actually most of HEROIN in Iranian markets is refined and produced in labs inside Pakistan... Afghan trafickkers only export raw opium...
 
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