Iran unveiled indigenous "kowsar" fighter jet with 4th gen avionics

[Hack-Hook]

K thanks because i read other anlaysts says that AiM-54 is not suitable for dog fighthing other fighter jet like F-15 and F-16 and only suitable for firing at bombers

Its not suitable for dog fighting yes , but not because it's not maneuverable , but because of the minimum range of firing which is at least 4km for AIM-120 it's 2km for AIM-9 that's 1km and for AIM-7 something like AIM-120

 

[Arsalan]

That guys is a --------------------.

Oh come on, i was just sharing the information with him. We all make mistakes. Lets not start with insulting other members.

 

[BHarwana]

So, it was not some mysterious plane that Iran have been taking deliveries of ever since sanctions lifted nor was it Chinese.

What am I not allowed to have some fun on the forum? Every one was speculating and I added to the speculation.
You my friend have a serious issue of keeping revenge.

 

[Arsalan]

What am I not allowed to have some fun on the forum? Every one was speculating and I added to the speculation.
You my friend have a serious issue of keeping revenge.

Hein....
Revenge?? oo kya ho gya ha bahi??
What have you done to me that i will seek revenge bahi or what have i done that you say i am taking revenge?

Come on man. Now that you have mentioned those as speculation, i understand it
Just asked you as you were stating this with such conviction it never seemed to me that you are just speculating, i though you were stating facts and now that they turned out to be wrong, i though i might some more details from you. Nothing hideous meanings bro!

 

[BHarwana]

Hein....
Revenge?? oo kya ho gya ha bahi??
What have you done to me that i will seek revenge bahi or what have i done that you say i am taking revenge?

Come on man. Now that you have mentioned those as speculation, i understand it
Just asked you as you were stating this with such conviction it never seemed to me that you are just speculating, i though you were stating facts and now that they turned out to be wrong, i though i might some more details from you. Nothing hideous meanings bro!

How would I know any info about Iran bro it was total speculations. Yes I might have some info about Pakistan because that is my country but iran is all have is news like the rest.

 

[Deino]

a MIM-23 is 590kg , an AIM-54 is 450-470kg .
you think how much each pylon on F-5 can carry ?
so no it cant carry the missile unless we strengthen the wing and architecture of airplane dramatically .

An F-5 can carry variety of rocket pods that non of them even come near 250kg when fully loaded
it can carry 4x AIM-9 or 4xAIM120 or 2x AGM-56 in Iran we have R-27 ,R-73 and R-60 in those class
It can carry variety of 250 and 500 pound general purpose bombs it can carry variety of 300-350kg cluster bombs in innermost pylons those three innermost pylon can carry 3x1000 liter fuel tanks but if you use it for anything else your range will become less than half .( the plane carry 2,563 L of fuel internally and those tanks carry 3120 L more fuel for the airplane)
and don't forget two outer pylon can only carry AIM-9 missile

Exactly my point. IMO these claims the Kowsar can carry an AIM-54-sized AAM is plain ridiculous.

 

[drmeson]

People who are talking about fitting AIM-54 or Fakour-90 on Kowsar are wrong.

If the radar turns out to be KLJ-7 then PL-12 will be its main BVR. Otherwise R-77SD in future which will come to Iran with Mig-29 upgrade.

 

[T-72B]

People who are talking about fitting AIM-54 or Fakour-90 on Kowsar are wrong.

If the radar turns out to be KLJ-7 then PL-12 will be its main BVR. Otherwise R-77SD in future which will come to Iran with Mig-29 upgrade.

Do Iran rellay have plans to upgrade their MiG-29?

 

[VEVAK]

But AiM-54 is not manuerevable
And Fakour using the same body of AiM-54 which is questionable whether it is manuevareble or not,but i hear about Sejjil A2A missile,what is it this project about? Is it MiM-23 convert to A2A program?

I wonder who told you guys Aim-54 is not maneuverable , if you mean at the end of its range when it loosing speed then at that range no missile is maneuverable . and why you guys think a missile chase your airplane and copy every maneuver you make with your airplane ? you knew AIM-54a was the first missile that was able to hit a drone target maneuvering at 6g , the missile was designed to answer different type of situation ,included maneuvering targets and AIM-54c was a lot better .
you see its how Aim-54 works, there is no need to hit target , I assure you there is 0% change that drone or if it was Airplane , Airplane survive

by the way Sedjil was a MIM-23 optimizing for A2A role , its development lead to Fakour missile as AIM-54 body was more Suitable for Air launch than MIM-23 body .

AiM-54 is not maneuverable COMPARATIVELY! Due to it's weight, size and speed it will clearly be less maneuverable than missiles that are lighter, smaller and slower! but due to it's relatively large payload it doesn't actually need to hit the aircraft to down it!

AiM-54 warhead is 135lb vs Aim-7 80lb vs AiM-120 40-50lb

But if I was Iran and I planned on producing an Air to Air Missile as heavy as the AiM-54 I would have instead followed the Russian in terms of propulsion and would have built various two stage missiles like the R-77 variant's the Russians have
From a ramjet version to a two stage solid fuel versions


And if I had to make them bigger than the R-77 variants to carry a bigger warhead for what ever reason then I would have just made them bigger.…...

Iran's Air Force has no one to blame but it's self in that regard

 

[mohsen]

People who are talking about fitting AIM-54 or Fakour-90 on Kowsar are wrong.

If the radar turns out to be KLJ-7 then PL-12 will be its main BVR. Otherwise R-77SD in future which will come to Iran with Mig-29 upgrade.

When you have a good air defense, you wont need kowsar for point defense or any BVR mission. that's why the main mission of Kowsar is close support (air to ground).

but if necessary, even Kowsar can carry Fakour or any other missile and use external data link for target acquisition,
the point is capability, not common role.

 

[Hack-Hook]

AiM-54 is not maneuverable COMPARATIVELY! Due to it's weight, size and speed it will clearly be less maneuverable than missiles that are lighter, smaller and slower! but due to it's relatively large payload it doesn't actually need to hit the aircraft to down it!

AiM-54 warhead is 135lb vs Aim-7 80lb vs AiM-120 40-50lb

But if I was Iran and I planned on producing an Air to Air Missile as heavy as the AiM-54 I would have instead followed the Russian in terms of propulsion and would have built various two stage missiles like the R-77 variant's the Russians have
From a ramjet version to a two stage solid fuel versions


And if I had to make them bigger than the R-77 variants to carry a bigger warhead for what ever reason then I would have just made them bigger.…...

Iran's Air Force has no one to blame but it's self in that regard

Slower than AIM-54, and honestly no body knew if the missile is good or bad

When you have a good air defense, you wont need kowsar for point defense or any BVR mission. that's why the main mission of Kowsar is close support (air to ground).

but if necessary, even Kowsar can carry Fakour or any other missile and use external data link for target acquisition,
the point is capability, not common role.

well to me it seems when they talked about Kowsar Radar capabilities , all the thing they talked smelled like Air to Ground mission.

In fact I expect the usual payload of the Kowsar be two AIM-9 or something like it on its wing tip and one Fuel tank under body , and then 8 Azaraksh missile in cluster of two on the remaining 4 pylon for ground attack or instead of them something like cluster of Sadid Bombs

or Some Bina Missile

or cluster of small bombs

 

[VEVAK]

When you have a good air defense, you wont need kowsar for point defense or any BVR mission. that's why the main mission of Kowsar is close support (air to ground).

but if necessary, even Kowsar can carry Fakour or any other missile and use external data link for target acquisition,
the point is capability, not common role.

Iran could have 100 S-300 PMU-2 but without an interceptor to back them & a retaliatory capability that would prevent or reduce further attack's it really wouldn't matter because even if they didn't possess the capability to Jam your radars, they can simply overwhelm your SAM in time and keep firing on them from beyond their range....

And the ONLY thing that would protect Iran in an all out war against the U.S. is Iran's offensive capabilities and against a well equipped military Iran's Air Defense systems are mainly meant to give you enough protection to get your offensive capabilities going.

Which makes CAS fighters like the Q-313, Azarakhsh, Kowsar,... practically useless against the U.S., Israel or even Saudi Arabia which are the MAIN conventional military threats Iran faces!

Today U.S. F-35's can fry your radars and will likely be escorted with mid-high altitude jet powered UCAV's equipped with jamming pods as decoy that will disrupt your ability to target airborne threats plus U.S. special forces armed with small suicide drones will be deployed against fixed Air Defense sites that will use suicide drones like the switchblade to target un-bunkered radars, plus cruise missiles, plus EMP's, air launch swarm,.....

And it doesn't matter what you do because slow moving & fixed ground targets will always be easier to target and hit then a high speed moving aircraft in the Air! And in a country the size of Iran, low ranged, low payload fighter jets ARE USELESS in an all out war against a modern military!

And given Iran's relatively limited Human resources(compared to U.S., China, Russia or the EU), tools and facilities putting manhours in the development and production of platforms like the Q-313 or the Kowsar or the F-5 and production of useless powerplants like the J-85 is NOTHING BUT an absolute waist of time and resources!

 

[mohsen]

Iran could have 100 S-300 PMU-2 but without an interceptor to back them & a retaliatory capability that would prevent or reduce further attack's it really wouldn't matter because even if they didn't possess the capability to Jam your radars, they can simply overwhelm your SAM in time and keep firing on them from beyond their range....

And the ONLY thing that would protect Iran in an all out war against the U.S. is Iran's offensive capabilities and against a well equipped military Iran's Air Defense systems are mainly meant to give you enough protection to get your offensive capabilities going.

Which makes CAS fighters like the Q-313, Azarakhsh, Kowsar,... practically useless against the U.S., Israel or even Saudi Arabia which are the MAIN conventional military threats Iran faces!

Today U.S. F-35's can fry your radars and will likely be escorted with mid-high altitude jet powered UCAV's equipped with jamming pods as decoy that will disrupt your ability to target airborne threats plus U.S. special forces armed with small suicide drones will be deployed against fixed Air Defense sites that will use suicide drones like the switchblade to target un-bunkered radars, plus cruise missiles, plus EMP's, air launch swarm,.....

And it doesn't matter what you do because slow moving & fixed ground targets will always be easier to target and hit then a high speed moving aircraft in the Air! And in a country the size of Iran, low ranged, low payload fighter jets ARE USELESS in an all out war against a modern military!

And given Iran's relatively limited Human resources(compared to U.S., China, Russia or the EU), tools and facilities putting manhours in the development and production of platforms like the Q-313 or the Kowsar or the F-5 and production of useless powerplants like the J-85 is NOTHING BUT an absolute waist of time and resources!

War isn't a one sided game, jammers, suicide drones, missiles, they have it, and we have them too.

contrary to what you said, only their first wave of attack can be overwhelming, after that, it's Iran's missiles which will overwhelm their ships, bases and air defense systems. we wont allow any safe gathering points for them.

and about American ground forces, they wont even reach Iranian borders, they will be engaged in an endless proxy war against Iranian allies in the middle east, again, contrary to your comment, logistics and human resources would be the thing which U.S would lack most of all, to the point that American soldiers will think their country has abandoned them! as general Suleimani said, even his forces are enough to neutralize American aggressions.

in such a war, even F5 has it's uses.

 

[scimitar19]

@mohsen

You really think that first attack will be just overwhelming, it will not be overwhelming it will be devastating. We are not talking about conventional attack by US we are talking about all out scale nuclear stand off. Americans do know that conventional war will be too costly for them and will yield very little results for them but nuclear attack is something they put their faith in. US hawks will never indulge in conventional fair war against Iran and I believe IRGC knows the nature of US doctrine in future conflict hence building underground missile silos and infrastructure that comes with it.

 

[WordsMatter]

Oh wait, IRI shows a 1960s F5 as a "brand-spanking new indigenous" fighter and this forum suddenly becomes how IRI can withstand the US behemoth... please. Stop drinking the cool-aid, it doesn't help with your sense of reality.