Iran: Purchase of Russian Su-30 fighters on agenda

[Hack-Hook]

Wha..??,actually it was rouhani and zarifs choice to do this not mine.
What they should have done was had the arms embargo lifted as part of the nuclear deal but rouhani and zarif couldnt seem to care less about acquiring very badly needed new weapons,instead they seem more concerned with buying western airliners than badly needed modern fighters.

well by making that choice they have shown they are mature and practical.
you knew why USSR fall , they tried to match USA and NATO airplane to airplane , bombs to bombs , missile to missile tanks to tanks and they had no means to sustain that.

why you think we need fighter jets more than Airliners , why you think we cant wait until we made our own design ? then whats the use of spending so much on developing technologies and infrastructure needed for a new fighter .
look at India with its Hal-Tejas it uses a single 54kn engine and didn't we announced soon we will have a 50kn engine why not use the money on that engine and project like Shafaq and Qaher ?
you must ask yourself we want to use those Su-30 against whom ? KSA? USA? UAE? Israel ? you think for example how long those SU-30 can stand against USA F-22 or Israel and Turkey F-35?
what about Silent eagle that KSA is gonna get ? you see we have no unlimited fund if we buy something its for the next 30 years at least and for that we need something with at least some minimum stealth feature .the stop gap argument is useless if we wanted to buy SU-30 we must have bought it 15 years ago not now .right now we need something to be detected 40km away not 200km away ,believe me you don't want to try and dodge AIM-120 before you even beware of the presence of the enemy fighters in area

 

[OldTwilight]

Wha..??,actually it was rouhani and zarifs choice to do this not mine.
What they should have done was had the arms embargo lifted as part of the nuclear deal but rouhani and zarif couldnt seem to care less about acquiring very badly needed new weapons,instead they seem more concerned with buying western airliners than badly needed modern fighters.

َAccording of Our Highest Military ranked General , They only gave 20 % supposed Army budget in this year to them ... that mean our Army barely can pay salaries to its personal ( and average of Iran's military member salari is 550$ !!! ) ....

well by making that choice they have shown they are mature and practical.
you knew why USSR fall , they tried to match USA and NATO airplane to airplane , bombs to bombs , missile to missile tanks to tanks and they had no means to sustain that.

why you think we need fighter jets more than Airliners , why you think we cant wait until we made our own design ? then whats the use of spending so much on developing technologies and infrastructure needed for a new fighter .
look at India with its Hal-Tejas it uses a single 54kn engine and didn't we announced soon we will have a 50kn engine why not use the money on that engine and project like Shafaq and Qaher ?
you must ask yourself we want to use those Su-30 against whom ? KSA? USA? UAE? Israel ? you think for example how long those SU-30 can stand against USA F-22 or Israel and Turkey F-35?
what about Silent eagle that KSA is gonna get ? you see we have no unlimited fund if we buy something its for the next 30 years at least and for that we need something with at least some minimum stealth feature .the stop gap argument is useless if we wanted to buy SU-30 we must have bought it 15 years ago not now .right now we need something to be detected 40km away not 200km away ,believe me you don't want to try and dodge AIM-120 before you even beware of the presence of the enemy fighters in area

you are just playing with words ... did we try to mach USA or Nato !? the answer is NO ... so don't bring this nonsense for 1000 times .... our Ground force and Airforce is not match for Afghanistan or Iraq anymore .... so don't compare us with USSR and repeat " do you know why USSR fall " ....

well , in next 10 years , our Air force can't even operate against some Terrorist groups because you can't use F4 and F5 and F14 for more than 50 years ( and these F4 passed a 8 years long wars )

 

[AmirPatriot]

Sadly he has very good reason to be

I know that, but he is being overly pessimistic. I for one am neither pessimistic or optimistic, I hate predicting these things so I will just wait to see the outcome.

rouhani and zarif allowed the arms embargo to remain in place for another 5 years

If I remember correctly that was because Khamenei himself, who is often the most conservative on these issues, said that the and embargoes could remain for a few more years. The lifting of the economic sanctions was the biggest aim.

well Sukhoi PAK-FA is single seat Mig-29k is single seat

We don't really know their capabilities very well. And the latest variants of the MiG-29K are in fact twin seat.

Eurofighter is single seat also Chengdu J-20, Shenyang J-31

Neither of which are Russian, but its funny you mention the Eurofighter which has been criticised for it's lack of anti ground capability. And we don't really know the capability or role of the Chinese fighters, though being 5th gen you'd assume they have more advanced avionics to handle strike ops. Don't forget the Sukhoi is a 40 year old design.

 

[Hack-Hook]

you are just playing with words ... did we try to mach USA or Nato !? the answer is NO ... so don't bring this nonsense for 1000 times .... our Ground force and Airforce is not match for Afghanistan or Iraq anymore .... so don't compare us with USSR and repeat " do you know why USSR fall " ....

well , in next 10 years , our Air force can't even operate against some Terrorist groups because you can't use F4 and F5 and F14 for more than 50 years ( and these F4 passed a 8 years long wars )

not usa and nato but some guys try to make another ksa from our army you still did not answered me how a su-30 can go against f-35 or silent eagle version of f-15.

 

[Fafnir]

not usa and nato but some guys try to make another ksa from our army you still did not answered me how a su-30 can go against f-35 or silent eagle version of f-15.

You could say the same thing about the f14 and mig29 both of which would have far,far worse performance against either of these than would a 4th gen+ fighter like the su30.I mean if you`re going to use this sort of argument then iran might as well just not bother having any airforce at all .The fact of the matter is that an su30 would be an excellent match for any of the current aircraft the gulfies airforces operate and an su30 upgraded with improved avionics such as the su35s irbis e pesa radar or even better aesa raders and operating as part of irans increasingly large and sophisticated integrated air defence network would also be something that an f35 would really have to watch out for.
Heres an article from carlo kopp/air power australia about some of the problems an f35 might have going head to head with an su35
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-05072010-1.html
And heres one on the sukhoi families radars,they have some very impressive capabilities
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html

 

[BlueInGreen]

Since Israel increased its order of F-35 fighter jets to 50, which allows them to have two fully functional F35 squadrons. Iran's purchase will have to sizable in order to combat that threat ( F-35 is a multi-role stealth strike "super" weapon of sorts, only real reason that Israel increased it's order to 50 is because they want to use them for a pre-emtpive attack (Lebanon, Syria and Iran are the only countries that a high ticket weapon like F-35 which cost 110 million per unit, would be used against).

Now, more than ever Iran needs to increase its air force, or anti-air capability 10 fold or even more.

You know, it really needs to be stressed that wars of the 21century are won with Air power primarily. Iran really needs 300-500 fighters to just "defend" itself from all of the aggressor countries in the region.

In my honest opinion this is a do or die situation.

 

[Fafnir]

Since Israel increased its order of F-35 fighter jets to 50, which allows them to have two fully functional F35 squadrons. Iran's purchase will have to sizable in order to combat that threat ( F-35 is a multi-role stealth strike "super" weapon of sorts, only real reason that Israel increased it's order to 50 is because they want to use them for a pre-emtpive attack (Lebanon, Syria and Iran are the only countries that a high ticket weapon like F-35 which cost 110 million per unit, would be used against).

Now, more than ever Iran needs to increase its air force, or anti-air capability 10 fold or even more.

You know, it really needs to be stressed that wars of the 21century are won with Air power primarily. Iran really needs 300-500 fighters to just "defend" itself from all of the aggressor countries in the region.

In my honest opinion this is a do or die situation.

Agreed,well said.
Iran has wasted,and unfortunately still continues to waste precious time and all the while its remaining airforce rots away into obsolescence.Sadly iran has treated its airforce as the red headed stepchild of its military and the results are horribly obvious,iran has gone from having one of the strongest airforces in the region in the 70s/early 80s to one of the weakest and altho irans ballistic missile forces have to some degree compensated for this they are not an alternative to an airforce.Iran needs to start signing deals and spending some serious money to acquire some serious numbers of new aircraft not just a few dozen or so,but because of the idiots who allowed the arms embargo to remain in place its going to be a minimum of five more years before iran can even start receiving or beginning license building new aircraft,frankly I think it is a truly dreadful state of affairs.

 

[BlueInGreen]

Agreed,well said.
Iran has wasted,and unfortunately still continues to waste precious time and all the while its remaining airforce rots away into obsolescence.Sadly iran has treated its airforce as the red headed stepchild of its military and the results are horribly obvious,iran has gone from having one of the strongest airforces in the region in the 70s/early 80s to one of the weakest and altho irans ballistic missile forces have to some degree compensated for this they are not an alternative to an airforce.Iran needs to start signing deals and spending some serious money to acquire some serious numbers of new aircraft not just a few dozen or so,but because of the idiots who allowed the arms embargo to remain in place its going to be a minimum of five more years before iran can even start receiving or beginning license building new aircraft,frankly I think it is a truly dreadful state of affairs.

More or less, Iran's air force will be it's undoing. If the enemy is allowed unquestioned rule over Iranian air space or rule over where Iran is operating outside of Iranian territory, then the war is lost. Not to mention all enemy states have to do is bomb government buildings and institutions and there goes Iran as a country, decent into civil war as enemy states grab what they can and influence local populations for their own interests and agendas (not saying Iran is prone to this sort of fragility when it comes to national unity but the point still stands).

Time is against Iran when it comes to air force. Man..... This really needs to be top priority for Iran regardless of anything, cancel useless projects and focus on anti air and air force.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You could say the same thing about the f14 and mig29 both of which would have far,far worse performance against either of these than would a 4th gen+ fighter like the su30.I mean if you`re going to use this sort of argument then iran might as well just not bother having any airforce at all .The fact of the matter is that an su30 would be an excellent match for any of the current aircraft the gulfies airforces operate and an su30 upgraded with improved avionics such as the su35s irbis e pesa radar or even better aesa raders and operating as part of irans increasingly large and sophisticated integrated air defence network would also be something that an f35 would really have to watch out for.
Heres an article from carlo kopp/air power australia about some of the problems an f35 might have going head to head with an su35
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-05072010-1.html
And heres one on the sukhoi families radars,they have some very impressive capabilities
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html

I don't say those planes will have better performance , I say won't waste money on things that will be useless ,spend money on things tat can be useful ,F-14, Mig-29, SU30 , F-15,.... are meaningless spending of money , 15 years ago you could rationalize it but now ??
if you go for SU-35 then our air-force will be on par with what GCC will have in future go with SU-30 and we will be a lot weaker than their air-force

 

[AmirPatriot]

Agreed,well said.
Iran has wasted,and unfortunately still continues to waste precious time and all the while its remaining airforce rots away into obsolescence.Sadly iran has treated its airforce as the red headed stepchild of its military and the results are horribly obvious,iran has gone from having one of the strongest airforces in the region in the 70s/early 80s to one of the weakest and altho irans ballistic missile forces have to some degree compensated for this they are not an alternative to an airforce.Iran needs to start signing deals and spending some serious money to acquire some serious numbers of new aircraft not just a few dozen or so,but because of the idiots who allowed the arms embargo to remain in place its going to be a minimum of five more years before iran can even start receiving or beginning license building new aircraft,frankly I think it is a truly dreadful state of affairs.

I thoroughly agree with your and @BlueInGreen's posts, the military leadership has neglected the air force for far too long. I've been saying all this for years, the leadership need to get their shit together and spend serious money on the IRIAF.

But Fafnir if I may have 1 caveat with your post, even Khamenei the most conservative influential person in the leadership said the arms sanctions did not need to be lifted immediately. Besides there are less than 4 years of it remaining. Consider that in those 4 years Iran has to negotiate with the Russians, then work out the technical requirements (like what version of Su-30 with what options, what missiles, how much domestic production and TOT and so on and so forth). Then the Russians will probably deliver some Russian made planes at first like they did with India, which means we'd have to wait for them to actually make them (bear in mind the RuAF has priority for delivery above export orders), flight test them, deliver them. Somewhere in that timeframe they have to train hundreds of pilots/co-pilots (bear in mind the Su-30 is twin seat). So I don't think the 4 years left really hurts us much, it's not like the production line is gonna be built immediately and start churning out planes.

I suggest you read a bit more on the Indian purchase/domestic production which I presume is the model Iran will follow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKI

 

[OldTwilight]

you ask Why Iran didn't revived her Airforce till now !? just read comment of JEskandri .... and he is one of supposed reasonable guys in Iran ... there are blockheads people and series of Money Hungry Governments which like JEskandri reasoning as excuse to not give even 1 dollar to IRIGC and Army ....

I don't say those planes will have better performance , I say won't waste money on things that will be useless ,spend money on things tat can be useful ,F-14, Mig-29, SU30 , F-15,.... are meaningless spending of money , 15 years ago you could rationalize it but now ??
if you go for SU-35 then our air-force will be on par with what GCC will have in future go with SU-30 and we will be a lot weaker than their air-force

عزیز دلم ، شما می خوای دولتی که تا برج 9 فقط 20 درصد بودجه ی نظامی رو ارتش داده ( سپاهی ها که می گند که امسال اصلا بودجه ی درست و حسابی بهشون نداده و حتی طلب قرارگاه خاتم الانبیا رو هم نمی ده ) بیاد خرج خرید مستقیم 120 الی 200 تا سوخو 35 کنه !؟
کارد چنان به استخوان رسید که مجبور شدند این موضوع رو توی تریبون عمومی اعلان کنند !!!


شما چرا خودت رو به نفهمی می زنی !؟
امنیت ملی رو هم داری برای اهداف سیاسی نابود می کنی !؟

 

[Muhammed45]

Which variant of Su-30?

License production of SU-30-SM technologically similar to Su-35's elementary versions which Indonesia requested, corrected , a couple of years ago.

عزیز دلم ، شما می خوای دولتی که تا برج 9 فقط 20 درصد بودجه ی نظامی رو ارتش داده ( سپاهی ها که می گند که امسال اصلا بودجه ی درست و حسابی بهشون نداده و حتی طلب قرارگاه خاتم الانبیا رو هم نمی ده ) بیاد خرج خرید مستقیم 120 الی 200 تا سوخو 35 کنه !؟
کارد چنان به استخوان رسید که مجبور شدند این موضوع رو توی تریبون عمومی اعلان کنند !!!


شما چرا خودت رو به نفهمی می زنی !؟
امنیت ملی رو هم داری برای اهداف سیاسی نابود می کنی !؟

نرود میخ آهنین در سنگ. ولش کن. من سعی مو کردم قبول نمیکنه

 

[OldTwilight]

If we produce Su-30 in our country , later we can upgrade its avnoic , but if we just buy some Su-35 , we have to ask Russians to upgrades them and from worldwide experiments , Russians prefere to sell new fighters rather than upgrade current fighters for their customers ( in short words ; They won't upgrade Su-35 avnoics for Iran ) ...

anyway , I doubt we buy anything from Russia at all , current Government is living in lala land and see there is no threat for Iran at all ...

 

[Max]

finally it seems Iranians are comming out of "we have got amaizing ballistic and air defence missiles, hence we dont need advance air force" shit..

Good, i think 4 years period of sanction is good for talks, building facilities for new jets, training of pilots etc.

 

[Hack-Hook]

you ask Why Iran didn't revived her Airforce till now !? just read comment of JEskandri .... and he is one of supposed reasonable guys in Iran ... there are blockheads people and series of Money Hungry Governments which like JEskandri reasoning as excuse to not give even 1 dollar to IRIGC and Army ....




عزیز دلم ، شما می خوای دولتی که تا برج 9 فقط 20 درصد بودجه ی نظامی رو ارتش داده ( سپاهی ها که می گند که امسال اصلا بودجه ی درست و حسابی بهشون نداده و حتی طلب قرارگاه خاتم الانبیا رو هم نمی ده ) بیاد خرج خرید مستقیم 120 الی 200 تا سوخو 35 کنه !؟
کارد چنان به استخوان رسید که مجبور شدند این موضوع رو توی تریبون عمومی اعلان کنند !!!


شما چرا خودت رو به نفهمی می زنی !؟
امنیت ملی رو هم داری برای اهداف سیاسی نابود می کنی !؟

اگه خرج خرید جنس درست و حسابی نمیکنه پس خرج جنسی که در برخورد با اف 35 و اف15 به روز شده فرقی با اف4 نداره هم نکنه همون بهتر که به جای اینکه چند میلیارد خرج جنسی بکنی که فقط به درد مبارزه با داعش و طالبان بخوره بریم و شفق و قاهر خودمان رابسازیم لااقل اونجوری یک چیزی یاد میگیریم نه اینکه فقط پول نفت بدیم هواپیم بگیریم که اگه پسفردا با روسیه دعوایمون شد هواپیماها سه سال رو زمین بمون تا بفهمیم چی به چی هستش
شمااطلاع دارید که روسیه هنوز دفترچه های فنی میگ 29 را که برای نگهداری و تعمیرات اونها لازم بوده به ایران نداده یا اطلاع دارید خلبانهایی که برای آموزش به روسیه رفته بودن بعد از پایان دوره آموزش هر چیزی را که یادداشت کرده بودند و جزوه هایشون را ازشون گرفته بودند