Iran Condemns Egypt's Sectarian Killings As "Contradicting Islam"

[Pak-Americanos]

Seriously, can you imagine if there was a Wahhabi comedian? it would really soften the image of Wahhabism.

Everybody has a comedian inside of him. The timing is the critical part.

 

[iranigirl2]

Everybody has a comedian inside of him. The timing is the critical part.

You have the perfect timing.

 

[SQ8]

Sir have you read his Book? His most famous book is called "Kitabul Tawheed" (Book of Monotheism) which I have read. Have you read any? you should not judge a Man by what others say. You should judge him by his beliefs or any books he has authored. When we debate with other sects. We always quote from their books and literature. Noting comes from our own sources. I hope you do the same with Him.

Absolutley, A copy of it sits in my main drive. His books and quotes seem to state the following. If you look at "Kashf al Shubuhat"

1- The four madhabs that have stood for Islam for over 600 years are invalid.
2.For 600 years all Muslims have been unbelievers
3. There is no room for Taqlid.
4.Any differences among Ulema are a curse , hence men of understanding are not required in Islam and only his(Ibn-Ab al Wahhab's ijtehad is valid)
5. Al-Busiri was a Kafir(Al-Iyazo billah).

His approach is not "Monotheism".. its "Monomania".. a Paranoid ideal that has all the reflections of the Kharjite movement that plagued the fourth Caliph.. Ironically.. it has its mirror in the other ideology it opposes.. And so the two twins.. are generating Fitna and Fasad within the Muslim world.

 

[Pak-Americanos]

Absolutley, A copy of it sits in my main drive. His books and quotes seem to state the following. If you look at "Kashf al Shubuhat"

1- The four madhabs that have stood for Islam for over 600 years are invalid.
2.For 600 years all Muslims have been unbelievers
3. There is no room for Taqlid.
4.Any differences among Ulema are a curse , hence men of understanding are not required in Islam and only his(Ibn-Ab al Wahhab's ijtehad is valid)
5. Al-Busiri was a Kafir(Al-Iyazo billah).

His approach is not "Monotheism".. its "Monomania".. a Paranoid ideal that has all the reflections of the Kharjite movement that plagued the fourth Caliph.. Ironically.. it has its mirror in the other ideology it opposes.. And so the two twins.. are generating Fitna and Fasad within the Muslim world.

Sir, I have this copy.
http://pdfcast.org/download/kashf-ush-shubuhat.pdf

I don't know where you got this accusations from unless you are saying "Intersession" i.e. asking (Baba Kale or Baba Khadari, Baba who ever) is permissible for the Muslims in the past 600 years. It would be better if you just quote the whole paragraph because I am lost to what you are referring to. Thanks

 

[al-Hasani]

Absolutley, A copy of it sits in my main drive. His books and quotes seem to state the following. If you look at "Kashf al Shubuhat"

1- The four madhabs that have stood for Islam for over 600 years are invalid.
2.For 600 years all Muslims have been unbelievers
3. There is no room for Taqlid.
4.Any differences among Ulema are a curse , hence men of understanding are not required in Islam and only his(Ibn-Ab al Wahhab's ijtehad is valid)
5. Al-Busiri was a Kafir(Al-Iyazo billah).

His approach is not "Monotheism".. its "Monomania".. a Paranoid ideal that has all the reflections of the Kharjite movement that plagued the fourth Caliph.. Ironically.. it has its mirror in the other ideology it opposes.. And so the two twins.. are generating Fitna and Fasad within the Muslim world.

I am not sure how you even came to all those conclusions? Do you have the original Arabic source? From whom did your download your disc?

Your first claim makes no sense btw. "4 madahib that have stood for Islam for over 600 years are invalid"?

All 4 Sunni madahib are at least 1150 years old. When Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Tamimi was born they were all at least 850 years old. Nowhere does he say anything about it being wrong to follow a madhab. How could he when you consider his own teachings a distinct madhab? That's quite a contradiction.

2. Nonsense. Where do those 600 years come from? Why 600 years and not 1300 years?

3. Really? Again a striking contradiction when he himself studied under various suyuh and studied all 4 Sunni madahib which his father did not like being a descendent of a very long line of Hanbali clerics. Also again a striking contradiction against his opponents claim of him "forming" a distinct madhab.

4. More nonsense. Maybe the most absurd claim with all due respect.

5. Please find me an direct quotation from his original Arabic book that says so and the context.

Oh, here is apparently an English version of his "Kashf ush-Shubuhaat" book. Not sure how reliable it is compared to the original Arabic version since I have not read it. Nor do I really plan to do it since I prefer the original Arabic versions of every single book since I have bad experiences of the translated works, especially in regards to the teachings of Imam Shafi'i (ra).

http://pdfcast.org/download/kashf-ush-shubuhat.pdf

 

[Pak-Americanos]

The beauty of Imam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab statements is that he always starts off with - Believing in Allah, Worshiping Allah alone and believing in his Asma Wa Sifat in his Books. I learn from this that you start Islam off by knowing who is Allah and his "Worship".

There is no such a thing in Kashf al Shubuhat that says that 600 years ago Muslims became Kaffir or that Madhabs have become Invalid Because Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab was himself a Hanbali Sunni Muslim. He himself went back to the Madhabs when he wrote his Books.

 

[SQ8]

The official fiqh in KSA is that of the Hanbali fiqh, one of the 4 recognized madahib in Sunni Islam - only few minor and cosmetic differences between them, which Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Tamimi, surprise, surprise, also followed.

At the same time we have the most diverse local followings in terms of different madahib. In Hejaz and Tihamah the most popular madahab is the Shafi'i one. In the Eastern Province, among the Sunnis, the Maliki Madhab is the most popular. In the North, around the borders with Iraq and Jordan the Hanafi madhab is the most popular one. In Najd the Hanbali madhab. All 4 major madahib in Sunni Islam.

Among Shias we have the Twelver sect in the Eastern Province and the Zaydi Shia's in Najran Province.

Quite diverse I would say, in fact more diverse than anywhere else.

Nobody calls himself a Shafi'i Muslim do they? Maybe I should do that and most Hejazis and Yemenis who happen to be Sunni Muslims of the Shafi'i fiqh.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Tamimi did not invent anything new and I challenge anyone who says he did to prove that.

We have had this discussion several times and nobody has been able to prove anything. Ironically it has always been the words of a certain tiny minority (Shia Twelvers) who only account to 8% of all the world's 1.7 billion Muslims while we Sunnis, regardless of madahib, account to 90%.

I wonder who has a different interpretation of Islam and who has not....

I believe Islam goes outside Saudi Arabia.. but as you wish.
Your premise that people identify as Shafi Muslims in the first instance shows that you clearly did not grasp the statement or question. You believe that by identifying yourself as a Sunni you will not bother about the merits demerits of eating shellfish and shrimp because then you will not be Sunni??(Since there are different ideals on the consumption of these creatures). In other words, you are repeating the very argument that the schools of thought are invalid and only the ones ratified by the holy government of KSA are valid?
If you argument of cosmetic changes is to be taken as valid.. then the Rafizi argument of(in certain cases) of addition to the Kalimah will also be taken in a wide spectrum to be Cosmetic..and they are Muslims as well. Then whats the disagreement? Why the whole mess in Syria in the first place? why the Fitna?

If there is absolute agreement with the teachings of Imam Hanbl.. then why are there Hanbli's who disagree with Ibn-Abd-Al wahhab?
Your premise to the question itself seems to look at it the wrong end. If there are Shafi's and Hanbli's and Hanfi's and they all are Sunni's.. why do they even care about the Madhab's in the first place?

Hence, if Ibn-Abd-Wahhab who was part of Sunni Islam..and said nothing new.. why they hell did he say it in the first place? Why would his own father and brother disagree with them if they saw nothing new?

As for the proof.. Id leave to better scholars to come up with such explanations.
http://www.seekingilm.com/books/wahhabite.pdf

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

@Oscar

I asked my Pakistani colleague, I asked her what's with Pakistanis and Wahabis? She told me that the ones who oppose Bidaa are called Wahabis, while others mix Islam teachings with their culture and previous religions they had used to adhere to.

 

[Pak-Americanos]

I believe Islam goes outside Saudi Arabia.. but as you wish.
Your premise that people identify as Shafi Muslims in the first instance shows that you clearly did not grasp the statement or question. You believe that by identifying yourself as a Sunni you will not bother about the merits demerits of eating shellfish and shrimp because then you will not be Sunni??(Since there are different ideals on the consumption of these creatures). In other words, you are repeating the very argument that the schools of thought are invalid and only the ones ratified by the holy government of KSA are valid?
If you argument of cosmetic changes is to be taken as valid.. then the Rafizi argument of(in certain cases) of addition to the Kalimah will also be taken in a wide spectrum to be Cosmetic..and they are Muslims as well. Then whats the disagreement? Why the whole mess in Syria in the first place? why the Fitna?

If there is absolute agreement with the teachings of Imam Hanbl.. then why are there Hanbli's who disagree with Ibn-Abd-Al wahhab?
Your premise to the question itself seems to look at it the wrong end. If there are Shafi's and Hanbli's and Hanfi's and they all are Sunni's.. why do they even care about the Madhab's in the first place?

Hence, if Ibn-Abd-Wahhab who was part of Sunni Islam..and said nothing new.. why they hell did he say it in the first place? Why would his own father and brother disagree with them if they saw nothing new?

Sir I hope a person with your intellect and capabilities is able to disseminate a fruitful discussion and analyzes using your own intelligence.

"The reader of Seekingilm.com will notice that this site defends “Sufic” practices. Our administration believes that Tasawwuf, commonly called “Sufism”, is an integral core of Islam. It is our belief that the earliest Muslims practiced and developed this science, just as the other ‘sciences’, such as Fiqh or Hadith, developed by the hands and hearts of the scholars. What follows is a brief introduction of tasawwuf and our take on the issue."

About SeekingIlm | Seeking Ilm.com

You can go to seekingilm all you want Sir but when someone asks you about your faith and if you can back up your claims in real life you won't be able to use seekingilm. So suffice is to say that you haven't gone through his(Imam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab) Books which in this case I invite whole hearty to read, understand, and find the truth yourself. Peace.

Also Sir, if you were alluding that 600 years ago most Muslims in the world were "Sufic" than This is absolutely wrong.

 

[truthseer]

Good that Iran has the guts to call a slave a slave. Egypt has become an Israeli and US puppet, and want Syria to go the same way

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Absolutley, A copy of it sits in my main drive. His books and quotes seem to state the following. If you look at "Kashf al Shubuhat"

1- The four madhabs that have stood for Islam for over 600 years are invalid.
2.For 600 years all Muslims have been unbelievers
3. There is no room for Taqlid.
4.Any differences among Ulema are a curse , hence men of understanding are not required in Islam and only his(Ibn-Ab al Wahhab's ijtehad is valid)
5. Al-Busiri was a Kafir(Al-Iyazo billah).

His approach is not "Monotheism".. its "Monomania".. a Paranoid ideal that has all the reflections of the Kharjite movement that plagued the fourth Caliph.. Ironically.. it has its mirror in the other ideology it opposes.. And so the two twins.. are generating Fitna and Fasad within the Muslim world.

I'm so sorry I misunderstood this one, I thought you are saying that the fourth Khalif is Kariji,. I apologize.

 

[truthseer]

I'm so sorry I misunderstood this one, I thought you are saying that the fourth Khalif is Kariji, I was shocked. I apologize.

So Wahabis have fallen so low they think fourth Caliph is Kariji? :O

@Oscar

I asked my Pakistani colleague, I asked her what's with Pakistanis and Wahabis? She told me that the ones who oppose Bidaa are called Wahabis, while others mix Islam teachings with their culture and previous religions they had used to adhere to.

Not true. Wahabis are from Najd, I believe.
Hadith about Najd

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Ibn Abd al Wahhab-Upstart scholar who was refuted by his brother in a pamphlet written on the behest of his father . "al-Sawaiq al-Ilahiyya fi al-Radd 'ala al-Wahhabiyya".

Wahabbi-> Followers of Ibn Ab Al wahhab's teachings.

Other Sunni's who are not Wahhabis..
followers of Imam-Shafi, Imam Hanbl, Imam Abu Hanifa..

That said, read the post again.. Wahabbi is a subset of Sunni just as A chemical Engineer is a subset of Engineer.
or are you implying that all Engineers regardless of their degree are chemical engineers??

That's good, although we shouldn't care about what his brother says, we only take his beliefs and deeds. Now, tell me one thing in his teachings that go against Islam, with sources plz.

 

[SQ8]

I'm so sorry I misunderstood this one, I thought you are saying that the fourth Khalif is Kariji,. I apologize.

That is fine, Ill try to continue this discussion a little later as more idiotic ramblings of a Business Economics paper calls upon me so hopefully resume this on friday(provided the thread lasts less colloquial discussions).

But to leave at a point.. my core disagreement with your original statement is not that I do not consider the followers of Ibn-Abd-Al-Wahhab's school of thought as Sunnis..but rather that I being a Sunni disagree with his teachings and hence the idea that all Sunnis are Wahhabis is incorrect.

That's good, although we shouldn't care about what his brother says, we only take his beliefs and deeds. Now, tell me one thing in his teachings that go against Islam, with sources plz.

Till the Juma'a then? Please do remind me.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

So Wahabis have fallen so low they think fourth Caliph is Kariji? :O



Not true. Wahabis are from Najd, I believe.
Hadith about Najd

I'm being called Wahabi now by an Indian ..! And this Indian along with some non-Arabs call people of an area Wahabis with fabricating Hadiths about them! Nice..