Iran attempts to steal US Navy unmanned naval vessel, then departs after US response

[Daylamite Warrior]

exactly those who understand it are those who spend their life studying it , like clerics not me so i follow their interpretation . and their interpretation is that its allowed. case closed

If their interpretation of this verse, and all the verses condemning the people of Lūt, is that it is still permissible to change your gender and be gay, then they have gone directly against the Quran and is an act of kufr. I can read Arabic and my scholars say that gender realignment falls into this prohibition. The verses are clear cut and mohkamat, which you clearly dont know what it means. Case open until day of Judgement!

 

[Hack-Hook]

If their interpretation of this verse, and all the verses condemning the people of Lūt, is that it is still permissible to change your gender and be gay,

people of lut didn't change their gender . the male of the city had sex with male and female with female.

I can read Arabic and my scholars say that gender realignment falls into this prohibition.

and my scholar say its allowed.

The verses are clear cut and mohkamat, which you clearly dont know what it means. Case open until day of Judgement!

and you still failed to bring me a verse that say its not allowed to change gender, as faras im concerned the case is closed

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

people of lut didn't change their gender . the male of the city had sex with male and female with female.

and my scholar say its allowed.

and you still failed to bring me a verse that say its not allowed to change gender, as faras im concerned the case is closed

But a man who arbitrarily decides to cut their penis off, or do whatever to appear as a "woman", will be having sex with another man regardless. So in his mind he may be deluded to think that he is a woman, but biologically he is still a man...so in the eyes of Allah he is still a man having sex with another man i.e. totally haram. Add to the fact he/it changed the creation that was given to him/it, then that is compounded sin. End of discussion.

Then your scholars have commited an act of kufr, and need to be diligently advised before a verdict of takfir is given upon them. To make what is haram halal and vice versa is kufr akbar. May Allah protect us from this! Ameen

There also isn't a verse that says narcotics are haram, but the conditions of khamr (wine) are still met i.e. they make you miss prayer, no khushoo in prayer, fall into other sins, forget thikrollah, fighting other people, stealing etc etc. So by sound ijtihad we can say that narcotics are haram, just like khamr (wine).

We Sunnis also look at authentic hadeeth and the Prophet (alyahi salaatu wa salaam) and ahlul bayt (raziAllahu anhuma) hated effimate men and masculine women:

Ibn ‘Abbās (radiyallāhu ‘anhumā) said:

“Allah’s Messenger (salallāhu ‘alaihi wasallam) cursed the men who resemble and imitate women; and the women who resemble and imitate men.” (Sahih Al-Bukhāri, no. 5885)

I challenge you to bring a single narrations of ahlul bayt from Shia muhad'ditheen that allows homosexuality or anything represented by LGBTQ.

 

[Hack-Hook]

But a man who arbitrarily decides to cut their penis off, or do whatever to appear as a "woman", will be having sex with another man regardless. So in his mind he may be deluded to think that he is a woman, but biologically he is still a man...so in the eyes of Allah he is still a man having sex with another man i.e. totally haram. Add to the fact he/it changed the creation that was given to him/it, then that is compounded sin. End of discussion.

as i said phenotype is important in fiqh not genotype .

Then your scholars have commited an act of kufr, and need to be diligently advised before a verdict of takfir is given upon them. To make what is haram halal and vice versa is kufr akbar. May Allah protect us from this! Ameen

well thank god, that he still decide that who is Kafir and who is Muslim and didn't let others decide on that. as i said you are walking a very thin line as Khavarij and ISIS also had that certainity on who is Kafir and who is not

We Sunnis also look at authentic hadeeth and the Prophet (alyahi salaatu wa salaam) and ahlul bayt (raziAllahu anhuma) hated effimate men and masculine women:

thats why the sex reassignment surgery come , after it they are not effeminate men or Masculinne women . they are just women and men

“Allah’s Messenger (salallāhu ‘alaihi wasallam) cursed the men who resemble and imitate women; and the women who resemble and imitate men.”

that is a transvestite not transgender, they are different. he say i am a man who want to mimic a woman , the later say i'm a woman trapped in the body of a man
one acknowledge that he is a man , one say no and claim she is a woman

I challenge you to bring a single narrations of ahlul bayt from Shia muhad'ditheen that allows homosexuality or anything represented by LGBTQ.

and i newer ever claimed homosexuality or any part of LGBQT except the T part is allowed so why i must bring a hadith that say Homosexuality is permissible

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

as i said phenotype is important in fiqh not genotype .

well thank god, that he still decide that who is Kafir and who is Muslim and didn't let others decide on that. as i said you are walking a very thin line as Khavarij and ISIS also had that certainity on who is Kafir and who is not

thats why the sex reassignment surgery come , after it they are not effeminate men or Masculinne women . they are just women and men

that is a transvestite not transgender, they are different. he say i am a man who want to mimic a woman , the later say i'm a woman trapped in the body of a man
one acknowledge that he is a man , one say no and claim she is a woman

and i newer ever claimed homosexuality or any part of LGBQT except the T part is allowed so why i must bring a hadith that say Homosexuality is permissible

A phenotype is part of the gene, so it is pure demneted subjectivity to assert an attribute of a male gene is female. Unless they are a hermaphrodite, you have no argument.

No, making legitimate takfir is a part of Islam and has nothing to do with the khawarij and Isis. You dont even know what Khawarij is or how Isis came about. If someone is commiting an act of kufr and are hell bent on doing it then they are a kaafir. Going against the Quran knowingly is one of the biggest acts of kufr. He can think what he likes but he will have to stand in front of Allah. Im just giving you the warning.

No they are men who change their gender to women, artificially which is changing the creation and haram. Doesn't matter how you explain it.

Both are nuanced mental health issues which are not valid excuses for sane doctors and so called sheikhs to allow them to do it. If someone is divoone and wants to cut their forearms off and become a fish, that doesnt mean they are allowed to do it. However if they are crazy enough to want it then they may be forgiven since mental people who have no faculty to think will have mercy. However those doctors who facilitate and sheikhs that make permissible this are commiting a sin which will be difficult to get out of.

I said ANY aspect of LGBTQ, which the T you're referring to is included. So it seems you have nothing from the Ahlul Bayt! Ahlul bayt are free from this evil!

 

[Hack-Hook]

A phenotype is part of the gene, so it is pure demneted subjectivity to assert an attribute of a male gene is female. Unless they are a hermaphrodite, you have no argument.

No, making legitimate takfir is a part of Islam and has nothing to do with the khawarij and Isis. You dont even know what Khawarij is or how Isis came about. If someone is commiting an act of kufr and are hell bent on doing it then they are a kaafir. Going against the Quran knowingly is one of the biggest acts of kufr. He can think what he likes but he will have to stand in front of Allah. Im just giving you the warning.

No they are men who change their gender to women, artificially which is changing the creation and haram. Doesn't matter how you explain it.

Both are nuanced mental health issues which are not valid excuses for sane doctors and so called sheikhs to allow them to do it. If someone is divoone and wants to cut their forearms off and become a fish, that doesnt mean they are allowed to do it. However if they are crazy enough to want it then they may be forgiven since mental people who have no faculty to think will have mercy. However those doctors who facilitate and sheikhs that make permissible this are commiting a sin which will be difficult to get out of.

I said ANY aspect of LGBTQ, which the T you're referring to is included. So it seems you have nothing from the Ahlul Bayt! Ahlul bayt are free from this evil!

if there is Ijma then perhaps you are wrong on understanding the matter as there is no hadith or Quranic verse to ban the T part of LGBQT

 

[SalarHaqq]

except the one in central asia and balkan is done by ottomans themselves . and the one in algeires by theit governor there

Addressed at the beginning of my response. It was not the norm in Islamic history.

all aside this discussion is mute Shia fiqh distinguished between sexual identification disorder and homosexuality and when it come to decide on being man or woman look at phenotype and majority of shia clerics have allowed the gender reassignment and acknowledged their right. and i don't feel like continuing the discussion as the ones who must decide its permissible or not have made their minds and its acceptable

Your interjection to my comment was moot from the outset because I did not discuss the permissibility of gender reassignment nor the conditions under which it's permissible.

I countered a cheap shot taken against the Iranian military which consisted in portraying it as effeminate. To which I responded - and rightly so, that if a person wishes to see effeminate male soldiers, they don't need to look further than the USA military, because the latter is prominently featuring transsexual, transvestite and homosexual males, all of whom are or tend to be effeminate.

if there is Ijma then perhaps you are wrong on understanding the matter as there is no hadith or Quranic verse to ban the T part of LGBQT

Shia clerics restricted it to very marginal and rare cases in of otherwise incurable mental illness, which is very far removed from the western practice of fashionable transgenderism "by choice", which the so-called LGBT lobby is promoting. There's strictly no relation, and the Holy Qur'an as well as ahadith do not endorse this sort of ideology at all.

and i newer ever claimed homosexuality or any part of LGBQT except the T part is allowed so why i must bring a hadith that say Homosexuality is permissible

No, what the LGBT lobby has imposed on western nations is not covered by the fatwas of Shia clerics. In fact the underlying rationale stand in opposition to each other.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

if there is Ijma then perhaps you are wrong on understanding the matter as there is no hadith or Quranic verse to ban the T part of LGBQT

There clearly is no need for ijma when the Quran and Sunnah is clear as day, though there is consensus amongst Sunni scholars and I can bring you Shia scholars who agree that it is haram too. Just fringe liberals who make what is haram halal to please their western masters.

 

[Stryker1982]

The constant arguing here is why so many people have left this forum.

 

[lydian fall]

@waz

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

The constant arguing here is why so many people have left this forum.

This is a forum, full of guys talking about sensetive and divisive issues. To add to that there is tribalism and racism here which only adds to the toxicity. If this was a gardening forum then the toxicty would be non-existent. To add to that, nobody has been contributing to this ancient thread so naturally things will go out of hand. However I will never stop refuting falsehood when it is being shoved down my throat.

 

[lydian fall]

@waz @WebMaster

 

[lydian fall]

All these members plus serpentine and rmi5 have left for years and @Hack-Hook is still trolling against all of Iran's achievements 24/7

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

View attachment 876791
View attachment 876792

All these members plus serpentine and rmi5 have left for years and @Hack-Hook is still trolling against all of Iran's achievements 24/7

Shall I just put hack on the ignore list? Because it seems he has to have the last say and it's just hard letting him get away with it every time just because of keeping things calm.

 

[Type59]

The reality is that the Cold War never ended. The US is waiting for the next contender -- China -- to enter the ring.

Reign supreme abroad, but domestically situation is not as rosy.

The US does not have the resources to simultaneously tackle issues on all fronts.