Intelligence Report: "My Stand is with Pakistan"

[Pakistani E]

The patriotism of minorities is always questioned. No one dares mentions the duplicity of the majority who get us involved in wars of foreigners or have troops stationed in other countries because they share the same sect with them, or that their religious leaders take their cues from them.

I salute the minorities of Pakistan. They stick with Pakistan even after being treated suspiciously and sometimes with out right hostility.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And if Saudi Arabia took a leaf from Iran and managed to combine revered religious personalities with political personalities - then what?

I don’t know - depends on how such a hypothetical Saudi Religious Leadership would sell itself.

The Ayatollahs have done a great job of promoting themselves and have had many, many decades to build influence.

The patriotism of minorities is always questioned. No one dares mentions the duplicity of the majority who get us involved in wars of foreigners or have troops stationed in other countries because they share the same sect with them, or that their religious leaders take their cues from them.

I salute the minorities of Pakistan. They stick with Pakistan even after being treated suspiciously and sometimes with out right hostility.

Agreed - the Pakistani Shia are being criticized by some people just because they respect Iran & the Ayatollahs. The Shia haven’t attacked or spoken out against Pakistan but some people are either so insecure or prejudiced that they are going hysterical with their hypothetical scenarios in attacking the Shia.

 

[TMA]

I don’t know - depends on how such a hypothetical Saudi Religious Leadership would sell itself.

The Ayatollahs have done a great job of promoting themselves and have had many, many decades to build influence.


Agreed - the Pakistani Shia are being criticized by some people just because they respect Iran & the Ayatollahs. The Shia haven’t attacked or spoken out against Pakistan but some people are either so insecure or prejudiced that they are going hysterical with their hypothetical scenarios in attacking the Shia.

Do you have any ideas on how Pakistan can counter the influence of foreign religico-political figures on some Pakistani Shia without it becoming a sanguine effusion?

The Ayatollahs are no doubt more intelligent and united than the Saud Family but no less sinister to Pakistan and her people. Something that many Pakistanis do not realise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

By the way, there are some Pakistani Shia on this forum who have clearly stated that while they respect Iran, there is no question that they would fight for Pakistan if there was Iran-Pakistan conflict.

So all those questioning the loyalty & patriotism of Pakistani Shia can just shove it where the sun don’t shine.

Stop spreading sectarian hatred in Pakistan.

 

[TMA]

By the way, there are some Pakistani Shia on this forum who have clearly stated that while they respect Iran, there is no question that they would fight for Pakistan if there was Iran-Pakistan conflict.

So all those questioning the loyalty & patriotism of Pakistani Shia can just shove it where the sun don’t shine.

Stop spreading sectarian hatred in Pakistan.

But the question still stands for those Pakistanis who would fight for foreign states as non state actors/ mercenaries?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pardon my ignorance about religious matters, Can a Pakistani become a Ayatollah or its something reserved for the Persians? I strongly believe, that if Pakistan has to lead, which it will, it has to grab the bull by its horns and become the seat of power for both Sunni and Shia schools of thoughts.

I have a feeling that the Iranians have bit off more than they can chew. Once the inevitable collapse of Iran happens, from the combination of external and internal forces, Pakistan can use this time to create a new narrative of Sunni-Shia unity which is badly needed in this world.

Actually we are the only nation in the world which can promote such an ideology considering that we are both the second largest Sunni population and the second largest Shia population in the Muslim world.

 

[Pakistani E]

Agreed - the Pakistani Shia are being criticized by some people just because they respect Iran & the Ayatollahs. The Shia haven’t attacked or spoken out against Pakistan but some people are either so insecure or prejudiced that they are going hysterical with their hypothetical scenarios in attacking the Shia.

Some people in Pakistan need to be constantly reminded that Pakistani isn't just a state for Sunnis. It's for all Pakistanis. Trying to marginalize or holding millions of people responsible for the acts of a few miscreants is the height of stupidity. If that is the measure of justice, then it can easily be applied to other communities, including the "majority".

We are a very diverse nation, we should celebrate this diversity, instead of dividing people between patriots and traitors. Didn't really work out well for us in 1971. Not sure why people don't learn from history.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But the question still stands for those Pakistanis who would fight for foreign states as non state actors/ mercenaries?

Oh bhai, they don’t view that as fighting against Pakistan. There are different levels of identity for people. If the Iranians recruited for Hamas & Hezbollah to fight Israel, don’t you think that both Sunnis and Shia would volunteer? That doesn’t make them less loyal to Pakistan, they’re just fighting what they see as another enemy.

That said, I don’t agree with ANY Pakistani group fighting in a militia abroad, and please keep in mind that the number of Pakistani Shia that fought for Iran was very small compared to the overall population, and they primarily were recruited from poor and terrorism affected communities in Balochistan & FATA. The Iranians leveraged the violence & poverty in those areas very successfully - it is up to us to fix those issues in those areas so the Iranians can’t recruit. Why is it that the Iranian recruitment had very little success in the middle class Shia population in Punjab and elsewhere?

I have a feeling that the Iranians have bit off more than they can chew. Once the inevitable collapse of Iran happens, from the combination of external and internal forces, Pakistan can use this time to create a new narrative of Sunni-Shia unity which is badly needed in this world.

Actually we are the only nation in the world which can promote such an ideology considering that we are both the second largest Sunni population and the second largest Shia population in the Muslim world.

The Iranians have been lucky that Pakistan hasn’t responded the way it could have in Iran as a response to Iranian provocations. Pakistan doesn’t want to open another front with Iran, otherwise Iran (certainly parts of it) would be on fire if Pakistan actually wanted to retaliate.

 

[TMA]

Oh bhai, they don’t view that as fighting against Pakistan. There are different levels of identity for people. If the Iranians recruited for Hamas & Hezbollah to fight Israel, don’t you think that both Sunnis and Shia would volunteer? That doesn’t make them less loyal to Pakistan, they’re just fighting what they see as another enemy.

That said, I don’t agree with ANY Pakistani group fighting in a militia abroad, and please keep in mind that the number of Pakistani Shia that fought for Iran was very small compared to the overall population, and they primarily were recruited from poor and terrorism affected communities in Balochistan & FATA. The Iranians leveraged the violence & poverty in those areas very successfully - it is up to us to fix those issues in those areas so the Iranians can’t recruit. Why is it that the Iranian recruitment had very little success in the middle class Shia population in Punjab and elsewhere?

Some Pakistanis did not see the NATO armed ISIS as an enemy to Pakistan or even the PTM-TTP. Does it make them less loyal to Pakistan?
Whilst poverty has a great role, ideology also has its role. To concentrate on one to the detriment of the other would be foolish. As they say, it takes two to tango....

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

You think that Iran will collapse?

The patriotism of minorities is always questioned. No one dares mentions the duplicity of the majority who get us involved in wars of foreigners or have troops stationed in other countries because they share the same sect with them, or that their religious leaders take their cues from them.

I salute the minorities of Pakistan. They stick with Pakistan even after being treated suspiciously and sometimes with out right hostility.

By minority you mean in the religious sense or ethnic or both?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

You think that Iran will collapse?

According to Hadith, yes Persians, followed by Arabs are going to vanish. We are going to see a new war, it is likely soon. Allahu Alim.

If you watch Orya Maqbool Jan or Dr. Shahid Masood, they quote these hadith regularly.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some Pakistanis did not see the NATO armed ISIS as an enemy to Pakistan or even the PTM-TTP. Does it make them less loyal to Pakistan?
Whilst poverty has a great role, ideology also has its role. To concentrate on one to the detriment of the other would be foolish. As they say, it takes two to tango....

Ideology has a role, but if it had a dominant role the majority of the recruitment wouldn’t be from communities that I mentioned that suffer from specific issues.

And ISIS & the PTM directly attack the State of Pakistan so it’s not a good comparison, not yet at least. It remains to be seen how many Pakistani Shia would support Iran were Iran to take a more offensive role in Pakistan and it were highlighted in the media properly.

 

[BATMAN]

I’d like independent confirmation/evidence of a DELIBERATE missile attack in Mecca by the Iranians - you haven’t provided any independent confirmation/evidence.

I have already stated it's your personal choice.... but your logic of Iran being a liar makes Saudi a liar is not so convincing and require some ground.

Saudi Arabia is not a closed state like Iran, neither it's banana, not all of the reports coming from Saudi issued by state. Every one report as they witness.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499756/saudi-arabia

link to the video was provided on pdf many times at the time of incidence, i posted earlier in my previous posts and now here again few video links on internet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1130296231513796608

Americans have confirmed that missiles fired on KSA are of Iranian origin. Saudi report was never declared wrong, debris were displayed to international audience:

Independent analysis on missiles fired upon Iran:
https://maps.southfront.org/missiles-and-drones-a-close-look-at-houthis-new-weapons/

Attacks on Mecca were repeated attempts; record starting from 2016:
https://www.spa.gov.sa/viewstory.php?lang=en&newsid=154686
Than in July 2017 and last time in 2019:
http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/566760

Argument:
Shia of Yemen, have no known missile and drone development program, although Iran has repeatedly denied those were Iranian missiles.
Even Iran it self use Ukrainian, Russian, North Koreans, Europeans and Pakistanis for missile /drone technology transfer.
Every world media reported it, if it was fake they would have raised questions. Iran would have dragged Saudis in litigation, there would have a never ending propaganda campaign against Saudis on pdf.
Rest @Khafee can add.

 

[Pakistani E]

By minority you mean in the religious sense or ethnic or both?

I'd say it's mostly religious these days. Although we still do have some people who label entire ethnic communities as traitors or foreign agents sometimes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have already stated it's your personal choice.... but your logic of Iran being a liar makes Saudi a liar is not so convincing and require some ground.

Saudi Arabia is not a closed state like Iran, neither it's banana, not all of the reports coming from Saudi issued by state. Every one report as they witness.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1499756/saudi-arabia

link to the video was provided on pdf many times at the time of incidence, i posted earlier in my previous posts and now here again few video links on internet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1130296231513796608

Americans have confirmed that missiles fired on KSA are of Iranian origin. Saudi report was never declared wrong, debris were displayed to international audience:

Independent analysis on missiles fired upon Iran:
https://maps.southfront.org/missiles-and-drones-a-close-look-at-houthis-new-weapons/

Attacks on Mecca were repeated attempts; record starting from 2016:
https://www.spa.gov.sa/viewstory.php?lang=en&newsid=154686
Than in July 2017 and last time in 2019:
http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/566760

Argument:
Shia of Yemen, have no known missile and drone development program, although Iran has repeatedly denied those were Iranian missiles.
Even Iran it self use Ukrainian, Russian, North Koreans, Europeans and Pakistanis for missile /drone technology transfer.
Every world media reported it, if it was fake they would have raised questions. Iran would have dragged Saudis in litigation, there would have a never ending propaganda campaign against Saudis on pdf.
Rest @Khafee can add.

The only thing in question is the missile attack on Mecca, which the Houthi's have denied and no one outside of the Saudis is claiming and I have yet to see any credible evidence supporting the Saudi claim of an attempted deliberate missile attack on Mecca.

With respect to the attacks elsewhere in Saudi Arabia, when you enter an unnecessary war as the Saudis have done in Yemen, then you pay the consequences. The Saudis have caused massive civilian casualties in Yemen - they shouldn't be whining about being attacked by the Houthis in return.

Pakistan warned the Saudis & Emiratis against entering this war - they refused to listen and instead maligned and attacked Pakistan and gave the genocidal maniac running the government in India their 'Highest State awards'.