Intelligence Report: "My Stand is with Pakistan"

[Ali Tariq]

Even DG ISIS or MI might struggle to answer the question

DG ISI*

 

[S.Y.A]

he Shia militias haven't engaged in the same kind of barbaric terrorism in Pakistan as the TTP, LeJ, JUA etc so why should the Pakistani State do to them what was done to the TTP?

what did the ttp do before the operation started in mushi's time?

you, yourself have said that the COAS apologized to the protestors, what if he hadnt done that, and the protestors had been shot at? what if, all of the arrested had been killed by the army? what if the village of the protestors had been bombed by artillery and jets? what would they have done?

Remember the madarsa that was bombed by US droneskilling 50 plus students? the one with no links to ttp or militant organizations? did anyone apologize for that? or was anyone held accountable for that?

the ttp, for all they claim, werent Islamic. This isnt to support them. simply to show that people dont take kindly to innocents being killed, by the state or by state's involvement, and no one being held accountable after that.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Oh bhai, even in the US people have a surface level understanding of complex domestic issues (forget complex geo-political issues), and this is in a society that is highly educated and has access to a wide array of media platforms. Mainstream media, Twitter, Facebook - informs the views of many. Most are focused on careers, sports, socializing etc.

How on earth can you expect Pakistanis to have this deep understanding of complex geo-political issues? Hell, we can barely have civil, rational debates on this forum which is designed for debates and you want the Pakistani Shia to somehow to engage in some deep, thought provoking geo-political analysis and come to the conclusions you want.

It's not going to happen.

Pakistanis, Shia or Sunni, will continue to largely be the same as people all over the world - they are focused on their lives, earning a living, watching sports, celebrating holidays etc etc. The vast majority (Shia & Sunni) will continue to get their information from, and their views molded by, the view presented on media, family, friends, acquaintances etc.

Lastly, you throw out this claim that there is 'silence' - who determines the yardstick for measuring 'lack of silence or silence'? What empirical sources are you using to claim silence or lack of silence on behalf of anywhere from 20 million to 50 million Shia in Pakistan?

Come on buddy, Americans are the most ignorant people when it comes to geopolitics. You are using a wrong example here.

There is nothing deep here. Just hammering home common sense in respective communities. If your Mullahs is telling you Iran, Iran, Iran, or Saudi, Saudi, Saudi, tell him to shut the fk up and tell us about Pakistan, Pakistan Pakistan. Shed these ideas that Iran or Saudi are the custodian of Islam and keep them at arms length so we can detach ourselves from their toxic ideologies and sectarian trash.

Lastly, its not MY CONCLUSION. Its a matter of common sense, really.

As for silence, lets ignore me or any other Sunni, hands on heart, when was the last time you heard a Shia curse Iran?

 

[GumNaam]

Just watch these two videos Below and dont bother with the rest of the Thread

You Ignored my Request. ok settle down, grab a drink or two because its a long one


Nothing has threatened and harmed us more than the scourge of TTP and its affiliates.

they tried breaking our will through their attacks on schools, shrines, markets and places of worship. they made videos of beheading of soldiers and civilians but we remained defiant and our resolve persevered.

today they are reduced to dust and their remnants are hiding like rats in Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Pakistan has a unique make-up of ethnicity and faith. predominantly Muslims we have the Most Sunnis after Malaysia and the most Shias after Iran and this unique combination has seen the tests of times right from the times of Zia's Islamization to fight the super powers proxy war in Afghanistan, Iran -Iraq war, our own war in tribal areas, Sawat and rest of Pakistan to war in Syria and Yemen.


where others failed, their armies disbanded, we rallied and we united. our country is represented by both faiths in politics, media, showbiz, philosophers, armed forces and sports. what was a weakness for countries like Syria and Iraq proved to be a unifying force instead just like Jinnah and Iqbal.


so my dears, current Iran and American conflict has no chance to disrupt our social, political or religious fabric. those that were all smug and full of themselves to turn our constitution square into Khooni chowk of Sawat are defeated.


dont exaggerate or panic over speeches of some shia clerics they are in no league of Abdul Aziz or red mosque or Sufi Mohammad of Sawat. they both ate dirt and licked their spits. And so will anyone else who will bring our country's security at risk.


our focus should remain on those who went to join Daesh but after its routing have returned back and have recently committed an atrocity in a Mosque in Quetta.



whats with the title you say?

its an extract from an intelligence report that has been purposefully shared with me knowing well that I am part of the team and constant poster on this forum and I knew what I was supposed to do


so this is about a very private shia gathering of elders in Karachi which had representation from other parts of the country there were opinion makers and community leaders with large following. the talk moved to possible involvement of Pakistan in Iran- American war through pressure from America and Saudis and what side the Pakistani shias must take and one gentleman declared that he will stand with Pakistan and to that there was a unanimous roar of Approval and Nara e Haideris.


its outcome has been corroborated multiple times at similar gatherings and gossips across the country despite few rants by some shia leaders who are on Iranian stipend just like their Deobandi counterparts who support their big bellies and lavish SUV's through Arabian stipends.

my footnote is. I hope Iran is not invaded because it is our brotherly neighbor and shares a relatively calm border and if the conflict does start then we cant remain neutral and we will have to take a side and that side should be with Pakistan. we must do and say what suits us best. if we keep worrying about Saudis, Americans and Iranians then we will only end up hurting ourselves and wont get any sympathy from them either.

man, can anyone just gimme a quick synopsis of all this? Don't feel like watching, listening OR reading... -_-

 

[S.Y.A]

Which is why I oppose the piece of shit blasphemy law.

Unfortunately for you, the law is very Islamic, and will continue to be a part of our penal code.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As for silence, lets ignore me or any other Sunni, hands on heart, when was the last time you heard a Shia curse Iran?

I don't go around asking people on this forum what their sect is, but I can use my own example for when the Iranians were bitching about Pakistan after the attacks in Iran, or when the Iranians fired shells across the border into Pakistan.

But what you're asking for is anecdotal accounts - that's not a scientific means of measuring the opinion of 20-50 million Shia. Hence my repeated points that discussions on Iran shouldn't drag in Pakistani Shia - debate Iran & Saudi Arabia on their own merits without dragging in the sectarian angle.

Unfortunately for you, the law is very Islamic, and will continue to be a part of our penal code.

It's very un-Islamic, and will hopefully be reformed or overturned one day.

If your Mullahs is telling you Iran, Iran, Iran, or Saudi, Saudi, Saudi, tell him to shut the fk up and tell us about Pakistan, Pakistan Pakistan. Shed these ideas that Iran or Saudi are the custodian of Islam and keep them at arms length so we can detach ourselves from their toxic ideologies and sectarian trash.

This, I absolutely agree with!

what did the ttp do before the operation started in mushi's time?

Sheltered foreign terrorists.

you, yourself have said that the COAS apologized to the protestors, what if he hadnt done that, and the protestors had been shot at? what if, all of the arrested had been killed by the army? what if the village of the protestors had been bombed by artillery and jets? what would they have done?

Remember the madarsa that was bombed by US droneskilling 50 plus students? the one with no links to ttp or militant organizations? did anyone apologize for that? or was anyone held accountable for that?

I didn't say that, another poster did. With respect to the protesters being shot at - the tribes in Parachinar were not sheltering foreign terrorists. Yes, there would have been tension for a while, but unlike the TTP, the Shia tribes in Parachinar didn't have some overarching goal to create a bastardized version of a Shariah State so there wouldn't have been any need for long term security operations.

The Army apologized in person for its mistaken strike on a compound that killed innocent tribesmen. As far as apologies for US strikes, you'll have to ask them. They didn't even want to apologize for the Salala bombing that killed dozens of Pakistani soldiers.

the ttp, for all they claim, werent Islamic. This isnt to support them. simply to show that people dont take kindly to innocents being killed, by the state or by state's involvement, and no one being held accountable after that.

I agree that the TTP weren't Islamic, but they were barbaric terrorists and their campaign against the military was because of their refusal to expel foreign terrorists and prevent the military from exercising control in the Tribal areas. We are not revising history to paint the TTP as victims.

 

[S.Y.A]

I agree that the TTP weren't Islamic, but they were barbaric terrorists and their campaign against the military was because of their refusal to expel foreign terrorists and prevent the military from exercising control in the Tribal areas. We are not revising history to paint the TTP as victims.

on that, my approach is what IK believes in. The way that the military approached the entire situation was wrong to begin with. That is what landed us with the whole ttp mess. Bombing entire villages because of a few militants will earn the militants more followers. simple as that. that is what you are not understanding. also, before the operation, I dont remember anyone claiming to impose sharia in pakistan. once the operation started, that was used as another slogan to win over followers to their side.

had the situation been approached in a different manner, there would have been no ttp. even if there would have been, it would have been only limited to fata, much like bla in balochistan. not the entire bombing spree they went on.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This whole thing about 'Iran influencing Pakistani Shia' is about as exaggerated as Saudi Arabia influencing Pakistani Sunni - yes, there are organizations and groups and individuals on both sides that are influenced by Iran and Saudi Arabia, but the vast majority of Shia and Sunni don't really give a damn about the geo-political games being played here. They're all worried about everyday life.

The overwhelming Shia majority of Pakistan are not the problem, and they never will be.

Here we started talking about Liwa Zanabiyoun, their recruiters, agents, and fighters. It is a Shia militia fighting Sunnis in Syria and Iraq under Iranian orders, which consists of Pakistani nationals.

Eventually this snake is going to come back and bite Pakistan, you don't have to be a political analyst to figure that out.

Our state and public is opposed to any sectarian wars of any kind. This kind of sentiment which is popular in Iran, GCC, and other places is deeply unpopular in Pakistan.

We love our fellow Pakistanis, whether Sunni, Shia, or any other faith, we won't let anyone come in-between us.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

It was war, shit happens. Not really insane when you calm down and think about it from a neutral perspective. What would you do if someone kills your family? Same thing that ttp did, in the beginning, and same thing that the army did after aps. Do the same to shia areas, we will see their response, then we will talk.

you are talking liberty and exaggerating the hypothetical synario. TTP was not a family turned against state but bunch of opportunists who saw an opening for themselves due to chaos of war in Afghanistan and inflow of refugees in Pakistan they formed TTP in Sawat and had their writ while they had sympathies from MMA government. , LeJ, Al Qaeda and Ghazi group of Red mosque joined them when they picked up arms against the state.

govt only reacted with army operation not the other way round. so the basis of question is wrong on how shias will hypothetically react if the state levels their homes. why would it? its not a religious mafia that will antagonize its population.

in extreme hypothetical sense yes, even if Christians or Hindus or shias or any other faith is pushed to the wall then it might retaliate in some shape or form. but not all of its members.
NOT all tribesmen joined TTP and fought the army, Army didnt level every Tribesman home and bombed its family as was claimed by the misinformation war.

we moved the discussion out of scope here. the purpose of this thread was to stay vigilant and united and watch out all those foes within us and outside that might try different tactics to create misgivings and suspicions and we can defeat them only together.

We should learn from Syria Libya Iraq etc and must think like one nation, if we really wants to thwart the evil designs. We all know that our enemies failed numerous times just because we stood steadfast and without any difference of religion, creed, caste or sect at all which were whole bunch of options for them to divide us, weaken and then kill us. The Pakistan is all we need and have to stand with, to deter hostiles on every level.


Together we stand, divided we fall.

the warnings are very stark and examples are plenty for all communities and members from both faith groups to watch out and take heed.
there is simply no room a mistake. we have stood together in worse times and we will Inshallah prevail in current and future challenges thrown at us

 

[The Eagle]

Yeah - Iran has extremely rarely been a topic of conversation in my family, nor has it been a topic of conversation when we go to our villages (which are Shia dominated) and hang out at the Dera and meet various people.

This whole thing about 'Iran influencing Pakistani Shia' is about as exaggerated as Saudi Arabia influencing Pakistani Sunni - yes, there are organizations and groups and individuals on both sides that are influenced by Iran and Saudi Arabia, but the vast majority of Shia and Sunni don't really give a damn about the geo-political games being played here. They're all worried about everyday life.

Unfortunately, most of people are missing the bigger picture here. The real influence or allow me to say much bigger threat is all those so-called Youtube warriors & FB etc experts. On the ground, no one cares who is Sunni or Shia or Christian or Hindu but when it comes to the few misguided ones that are under influence of the most foul mouths (I am saying for the both sides) merely looking for a short cut to heaven; are the real fuel of this fire.

Just because media has so much projection and usage like be it print, electronic or even Internet; people tends to fall for it instead of more research on the topic. Most of the people that do care about Religion & Motherland; doesn't even talk about it except those who are part & parcel of all this ethnic/sectarian dividing game. I do have friends from different ethnicity, sects & minorities and I never felt anything like this which is only limited to the online world.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Do the Paks have any other choice??? Look at the Indian Muslims!! The least said the better!! In their ghettos of the perpetual sorrow deaths are celebrated, and births are cursed....

And, look at the Muslims in BD!! They are the “outlaws” in their land by/for/of the Hindus!! And, that too on a permanent basis without a single ray of hope for the emancipation of this absolute subjugation....

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I don't go around asking people on this forum what their sect is, but I can use my own example for when the Iranians were bitching about Pakistan after the attacks in Iran, or when the Iranians fired shells across the border into Pakistan.

But what you're asking for is anecdotal accounts - that's not a scientific means of measuring the opinion of 20-50 million Shia. Hence my repeated points that discussions on Iran shouldn't drag in Pakistani Shia - debate Iran & Saudi Arabia on their own merits without dragging in the sectarian angle.

Not in this forum but in your personal experiences. You go to Majlis, to Imam Bargah. you meet people. I have Shia friends back home, never heard anyone bad mouthing Iran. Infact people go on defensive when Iran is mentioned. I am sure I am not the only one who has experienced this rather odd phenomena.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The overwhelming Shia majority of Pakistan are not the problem, and they never will be.

Here we started talking about Liwa Zanabiyoun, their recruiters, agents, and fighters. It is a Shia militia fighting Sunnis in Syria and Iraq under Iranian orders, which consists of Pakistani nationals.

Eventually this snake is going to come back and bite Pakistan, you don't have to be a political analyst to figure that out.

Our state and public is opposed to any sectarian wars of any kind. This kind of sentiment which is popular in Iran, GCC, and other places is deeply unpopular in Pakistan.

We love our fellow Pakistanis, whether Sunni, Shia, or any other faith, we won't let anyone come in-between us.

If you haven't read it yet, this is a good article explaining Iranian recruitment from Pakistan. Note that the piece quotes from interviews from recruited Pakistani fighters:

https://www.iranobserver.org/pakistani-shias-being-trained-by-iran-for-a-regional-fighting-force/

Not in this forum but in your personal experiences. You go to Majlis, to Imam Bargah. you meet people. I have Shia friends back home, never heard anyone bad mouthing Iran. Infact people go on defensive when Iran is mentioned. I am sure I am not the only one who has experienced this rather odd phenomena.

But I don't hear people badmouthing Saudi Arabia in everyday life either - usually the subject of discussion is domestic politics and occasionally India.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

But I don't hear people badmouthing Saudi Arabia in everyday life either - usually the subject of discussion is domestic politics and occasionally India.

I do, infact, if you haven't noticed, many members on this forum who happen to be Sunnis are staunch critics of Saudia Arabia/GCC.

 

[ghazi52]

Agree .