What's new

INS Vikramditya, India's second aircraft carrier, out at sea again

Do Indian navy aircraft take off from it regularly?

The Russians did test out the Mig 29's on it quite frequently, Indian navy pilots must surely have tried their hands on it too.

i agree with u! that's the part where the j-10b come's in.

J10 is again a single engined aircraft - what's it's operational range? and what does "B" denote?
 
@Dillinger, @Abingdonboy - in this day and age is it possible to take out an aircraft carrier battle group using just land based fighter jets? purely based on a limited number of planes of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Dillinger
DF-21D (CSS-5 Mod-4) Anti-ship ballistic missile
China has reportedly developed and tested the world's first anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) called DF-21D, with a maximum range of around 2,700 kilometres (1,700 mi),[10] in 2005, according to the US Department of Defense. It is estimated to have reached initial operating capability in 2007 or 2008. The guidance system is thought to be still in an evolutionary process as more UAV and satellites are added.The DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missile itself is assumed to have entered active service by 2009.
The US Department of Defense has stated that China has developed and reached initial operating capability of a conventionally armed[15] high hypersonic[16] land-based anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-21. This would be the world's first ASBM and the world's first weapons system capable of targeting a moving aircraft carrier strike group from long-range, land-based mobile launchers. These would combine maneuverable reentry vehicles (MaRVs) with some kind of terminal guidance system. Such a missile may have been tested in 2005-6, and the launch of the Jianbing-5/YaoGan-1 and Jianbing-6/YaoGan-2 satellites would give the Chinese targeting information from SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) and visual imaging respectively. The upgrades would greatly enhance China's ability to conduct sea-denial operations to prevent US carriers from intervening in the Taiwan Strait.
United States Naval Institute in 2009 stated that such a warhead would be large enough to destroy an aircraft carrier in one hit and that there was "currently ... no defense against it" if it worked as theorized.
The United States Navy has responded by switching its focus from a close blockade force of shallow water vessels to return to building deep water ballistic defense destroyers. The United States has also assigned most of its ballistic missile defense capable ships to the Pacific, extended the BMD program to all Aegis destroyers and increased procurement of SM-3 BMD missiles. The United States also has a large network optimized for tracking ballistic missile launches which may give carrier groups sufficient warning in order to move away from the target area while the missile is in flight.
Use of such missile has been said by some experts to potentially lead to nuclear exchange, regional arms races with India and Japan, and the end of the INF Treaty between the United States and the Soviet Union, to which the People's Republic of China is not a party.
Some have also suggested China could develop a "MIRVd" DF-21D with multiple independent missiles.China has recently launched a series of satellites to support its ASBM efforts:
Yaogan-VII electro-optical satellite - 9 December 2009
Yaogan-VIII synthetic aperture radar satellite - 14 December 2009
Yaogan-IX Naval Ocean Surveillance System (NOSS) constellation (3 satellites in formation) - 5 March 2010.
Yaogan-XVI Naval Ocean Surveillance System (NOSS) constellation - 25 November 2012
China is reported to be working on an Over-the-horizon radar to locate the targets for the ASBM.[28]
An apparent test of the missile has been made against a target in the Gobi desert.

i agree with u! that's the part where the j-10b come's in.

A conventionally armed IRBM derivative which will promptly run up against the SM-3 interceptor, lights out! The Aegis got updated to go full on ABM for this specific reason. And yet again trying to deploy foreign strategic systems will get you shafted. The Gwadar is closer to the Gulf and the US/Brit/French fleet presence than ours, enjoy their attention afterwards. Secondly, did you bother to check the coverage area of the Yoagan sats?

By the time you induct the J-10, we'll be flying BARCAPS with FGFAs (the beuty of that beast, the combat radius allows us to base it out of an IN air base and still have it fly persistent BARCAPs across the Arabian Sea), again not a good day for a J-10 driver. Besides you might want to check on the status of that induction- there is no official move and according to your senior members- "Lets put it this way about Pakistan's financial situation and its current credibility and Ive stated this before. The PAF(under the umbrella of the Defense Ministry) signed loans with China to provide funds for the JF-17 program and the SAAB Erieye. Currently.. as finances stand.. there is not enough money in the PAF coffers after the usual expenditures of day to day flying(increased due to the participation in WoT), admin costs etc.. to even pay the premium on these loans.. let alone spend on new equipment."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Dillinger, @Abingdonboy - in this day and age is it possible to take out an aircraft carrier battle group using just land based fighter jets? purely based on a limited number of planes of course.
Well, naturally, this is all dependent on the side operating the ACC and their tactics. If the IN wants to stay 500-600kms off the Pakistani coast then shore-based fighters are not going to be in a position to touch the ACC, if the IN puts their ACCs 100-200KMs off the Pak coast then that is a different story. Naturally Indian naval strategists aren't fools, they will draw up plans that keep their assets as safe as possible when engaging in any conflict.

But,of course, every military operation carries risks and nothing is "impossible"- it is all about mitigating risk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Dillinger, @Abingdonboy - in this day and age is it possible to take out an aircraft carrier battle group using just land based fighter jets? purely based on a limited number of planes of course.

Lots of planes, good range so as to steer around any BARCAP, swarm of ALCMs with at least 700-800 Km range and sustained hypersonic cruise, add swarm logic, one missile rising up from the cruise profile- providing a decoy for the interceptor radars and passing on data through links to the rest.

After all of that sure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, naturally, this is all dependent on the side operating the ACC and their tactics. If the IN wants to stay 500-600kms off the Pakistani coast then shore-based fighters are not going to be in a position to touch the ACC, if the IN puts their ACCs 100-200KMs off the Pak coast then that is a different story. Naturally Indian naval strategists are fools, they will draw up plans that keep their assets as safe as possible when engaging in any conflict.

But,of course, every military operation carries risks and nothing is "impossible"- it is all about mitigating risk.

Of course, if it is lined up quite close to the shore than even land based anti ship missiles and aircrafts pose a risk - what i am talking about is mid sea where a squadron takes off to take down a battle group.

Lots of planes, good range so as to steer around any BARCAP, swarm of ALCMs with at least 700-800 Km range ans sustained hypersonic cruise, add swarm logic, one missile rising up from the cruise profile- providing a decoy for the interceptor radars and passing on data through links to the rest.

After all of that sure.

So it a No right now. I don't see that scenario happening until we are up against the USN.
 
Of course, if it is lined up quite close to the shore than even land based anti ship missiles and aircrafts pose a risk - what i am talking about is mid sea where a squadron takes off to take down a battle group.



So it a No right now.

Umm. sustained supersonic cruise will do too..so its actually a yes..just not for most nations of the world.

Oh and the DF-21 probably can sink a carrier with a sub-kiloton warhead even though its never officially been tested. Well as long as Aegis doesn't get a shine-on.

@RAMPAGE and if ever we hit Gwadar it won't be with a CBG launching strike aircraft, probably with MKIs angling out into the sea and opting ingress from the south to avoid your ADGE with stand-off weapons, well that or missile boats ala Op Python style.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Of course, if it is lined up quite close to the shore than even land based anti ship missiles and aircrafts pose a risk - what i am talking about is mid sea where a squadron takes off to take down a battle group.

Well in that case there are many facets to this and no on factor can be treated in isolation, rather one has to talk specifics and look at the entire picture. So if we are talking about a Pak vs Ind conflict and an IN ACC then we are talking about a JF-17 vs MIG-29K (at the least as, unlike the PAF/PN, the IN WILL be getting more advanced and capable aircraft in the not too distant future) which, as I've said, is an incredibly unfair fight. As @Dillinger as mentioned the Thunders will have to get around the BARCAP, IN AEW radar systems (let's leave out the IAF's shore-based AWACS with IFR capability and the IN's open requirements for such shore-based AWACS) and will have to avoid being detected by the ACC's MF-STAR/BARAK-2 equipped escorts. For now it seems like a foregone conclusion but I'll let you come to the conclusion that you see fit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Umm. sustained supersonic cruise will do too..so its actually a yes..just not for most nations of the world.

Oh and the DF-21 probably can sink a carrier even though its never officially been tested. Well as long as Aegis doesn't get a shine-on.

We will have to go up against the USN to find out if it's possible...not with what we have as our adversaries right now.

and if ever hit Gwadar it won't be with a CBG launching strike aircraft, probably with MKIs angling out into the sea and opting ingress from the south to avoid your ADGE with stand-off weapons, well that or missile boats ala Op Python style.

That brings up one more interesting question, what happens if IN hits Gwadar and there are a few Chinese and a few Chinese vessels around which take a hit? does it become an issue for us with the chinese? @RAMPAGE
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well in that case there are many facets to this and no on factor can be treated in isolation, rather one has to talk specifics and look at the entire picture. So if we are talking about a Pak vs Ind conflict and an IN ACC then we are talking about a JF-17 vs MIG-29K (at the latest as, unlike the PAF/PN, the IN WILL be getting more advanced and capable aircraft in the not to distant future) which, as I've said, is an incredibly unfair fight. As @Dillinger as mentioned the Thunders will have to get around the BARCAP, IN AEW radar systems (let's leave out the IAF's shore-based AWACS with IFR capability and the IN's open requirements for such shore-based AWACS) and will have to avoid being detected by the ACC's MF-STAR/BARAK-2 equipped escorts. For now it seems like a foregone conclusion but I'll let you come to the conclusion that you see fit.

You know eventually someone will plonk a high hyper-sonic ALCM with appreciable range (China definitely will), the Barak won't always cover us. We should have moved with the proposal to turn the AAD into the Ashwin SAM/ABM system. :hitwall:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Umm. sustained supersonic cruise will do too..so its actually a yes..just not for most nations of the world.

Oh and the DF-21 probably can sink a carrier even though its never officially been tested. Well as long as Aegis doesn't get a shine-on.

We will have to go up against the USN to find out if it's possible...not with what we have as our adversaries right now.



That brings up one more interesting question, what happens if IN hits Gwadar and there are a few Chinese and a few Chinese vessels around which take a hit? does it become an issue for us with the chinese? @RAMPAGE
how do u think IN will hit Gwadar and what'll be the reason ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well in that case there are many facets to this and no on factor can be treated in isolation, rather one has to talk specifics and look at the entire picture. So if we are talking about a Pak vs Ind conflict and an IN ACC then we are talking about a JF-17 vs MIG-29K (at the latest as, unlike the PAF/PN, the IN WILL be getting more advanced and capable aircraft in the not to distant future) which, as I've said, is an incredibly unfair fight. As @Dillinger as mentioned the Thunders will have to get around the BARCAP, IN AEW radar systems (let's leave out the IAF's shore-based AWACS with IFR capability and the IN's open requirements for such shore-based AWACS) and will have to avoid being detected by the ACC's MF-STAR/BARAK-2 equipped escorts. For now it seems like a foregone conclusion but I'll let you come to the conclusion that you see fit.

I was imagining a Pak vs Ind or a PLAN vs IN in an Indian Ocean scenario going by the fact that the Chinese just have one aircraft carrier right now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Umm. sustained supersonic cruise will do too..so its actually a yes..just not for most nations of the world.

Oh and the DF-21 probably can sink a carrier even though its never officially been tested. Well as long as Aegis doesn't get a shine-on.

We will have to go up against the USN to find out if it's possible...not with what we have as our adversaries right now.



That brings up one more interesting question, what happens if IN hits Gwadar and there are a few Chinese and a few Chinese vessels around which take a hit? does it become an issue for us with the chinese? @RAMPAGE

In Op Python and Trident we sank a foreign ship or two so not exactly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom