Information Pool & Analysis on Pakistan's AF Aspiration for Su-35 / Su-35S - FLANKER-E

[SQ8]

Indeed. There are big-ticket opportunities in Pakistan for Russia, though maybe not as flashy as Su-35, they're valuable in their own way.

For example, I am sure the Russians would love to push their attack helicopters. For one thing, we are not short of options in this department (hence our interest is not entirely borne from desperation), but a sale to us - i.e. an active COIN user (and budding COIN expert via ACE) - is a major stamp of credibility for the winning platform.

Ditto for small arms, light armour, that Ratnik soldier system etc.

The long-term necessity of the JF-17 is another area; should the Russians offer the RD-33MK, then Klimov would have secured a major market for the long and very long-term.

Attack choppers are going the way of the Hind. the Mi-28NE was proposed but that was still not found suited to the tempo the PA wanted. The Z-10 was (for the lack of a softer word)shoved down the Army AV throats by vested interests in the PA leadership but as such it is a Russian design if not for its appalling power to weight ratio.
So at the end, in terms of vertical lift the interest remains in more Mi-17s.

What might be a future purchase is either more Midas or perhaps another airlift like the An-70 or otherwise as the C-130 ages(although EDA C-130s are more favoured).

We have zero interest in the Mig-29 since both it and the Su-27 were evaluated in their base days and the performance of these aircraft vis-a-vis their serviceability and avionics was found inferior as an overall package to western jets.

 

[Signalian]

Their Su-30s are in-operational given their budget problems

Doesnt matter. They dont have any active conflicts also. Acquisition was made, spare parts are clear of embargo.

 

[wiseone2]

Doesnt matter. They dont have any active conflicts also. Acquisition was made, spare parts are clear of embargo.

who are they going to fight ? it is utter waste of money

 

[The SC]

Yes but our enemy capabilities have also gone up 5 times more than us we must act alone JF 17 and F 16 can't handle the heat of 5 different type of jets and in numbers from India

Pakistan must have 36 to 50 SU 35

5TH generation jet is 20 years ahead we need stop gape SU 35


Why rafale deal deny on our SU 35 negotiating it's make no sense what you are saying

If even delay how much Max 5 years india will get rafale but Pak can't get Chinese 5th generation jet till next 15 to 20 yrs

FC-31 is going to be operational and ready by 2020, Even if Pakistan buys the SU-35 it will have to wait till at least 2019/2020 for delivery..My guess will be 2/3 sq of SU-35 and the 3 + sq of J-31as soon as they are available, Also I don't think India can succeed in convincing the Russians not to sell 36 SU-35 to PAF while they have 300 SU-30 MKI and super SU on top of trying to get 36 Rafale..Gripen, F-16 viper, French and American engines and so on..They have thus paved the way for Pakistan to get what it wants and needs from Russia..
The world has become like a super market for weapons, no one can go there and say I'll buy all your milk but do not sell you cheese to that guy!

 

[Viper0011.]

I hope this train doesn't break down

With the speed its moving at, the breakdown might not happen. If it does, it will be after reaching the destination. Mechanics can easily fix it in that case

 

[IceCold]

It will die at Putin's desk who wants to keep India on.

I hope they choke on that and die and the deal happens over their rotten corpses.

 

[jupiter2007]

Either Russia will sell the Su-35 directly to Pakistan or transfer the Su-35 from China to Pakistan. Russian is willing to sell the helicopter, Tank, Air defence system to Pakistan.

Pakistan shopping list/interested from Russia.
Fighter: Su-30 used, Su-35, Su-37, Chinese J-11D

Engine: for Jf-17 (local production)
Helicopter: Mi-17, Mi-35M and Mi-28NE
Tank: T-14 Armata, T-90 Bhishma
Heavy IFV: T-15 Armata
Air Defence system: PANTSIR S 2 and BUK M3 and S-300/S-400

 

[aliyusuf]

I remember Pakistan talking about the Erieye AEW&C in 2003-2004. The contract was signed in 2006. This is in the case of a country with whom we've had more or less neutral to semi-positive defence ties. Whether it's Su-35 or not, to expect Russia to warm up to big-ticket arms sales so soon is not wise. If the sale is to happen, it'll be a few years before it's inked, IMO.

I totally agree with you on the time frame.

However, India is not going to allow this to happen sitting idle. So in the end, this really may or may not happen.

In fact the only way I see this happening is the Chinese influence on Russia. In very simplistic terms its in China's interest that Pakistan become stronger and work as a bulwark for Chinese interests in the region. Helping Pakistan acquire more military muscle is it's interests. So if Chinese influence can counter the Indian influence on Russia, only then is it a possibility.

But I agree with @Oscar that there may be other smaller ticket goodies that may come Pakistan's way ... like better engines for JF-17, Surface To Air missiles, maybe even Krasukha-4 mobile EW like systems etc.

Furthermore, as a food for thought, if Russia declines to sell the SU-35, would China be still held to their tacit agreement of not offering their re-designed and home built Flankers for export? If such an arrangement could be reached ... then J-11D or J-16 like platforms can prove to be quite attractive alternatives.

 

[chalHat]

On the Contrary I really wish to see Su35 on the Pakistani side

Maybe this will be eye opener for us and push us to finally make some substantial investment in 5 gen birds

 

[aliyusuf]

russians want hard cash. su-35 is going to be marked at $100 million a piece
you rejected f-16 because it is $80 million

That could precisely be the reason why they did not go ahead with the F-16 deal. Who would buy an F-16 for USD 80 million when they can get an SU-35 for USD 100 million? Maybe Pakistan was feeling up beat about it's chances on signing a deal for SU-35? So they may have thought that it was better to pay USD 100 million for the Flanker-E than to spend USD 80 million for the F-16s? Also from what I have gleaned from other forums is that the initial order could comprise of only 6 planes. The plan is to build the fleet in small increments.

 

[wiseone2]

That could precisely be the reason why they did not go ahead with the F-16 deal. Who would buy an F-16 for USD 80 million when they can get an SU-35 for USD 100 million? Maybe Pakistan was feeling up beat about it's chances on signing a deal for SU-35? So they may have thought that it was better to pay USD 100 million for the Flanker-E than to spend USD 80 million for the F-16s? Also from what I have gleaned from other forums is that the initial order could comprise of only 6 planes. The plan is to build the fleet in small increments.

unless you have long term plans for building a large flanker fleet i would take the 8 F-16s any day

 

[aliyusuf]

@F.O.X
Sir, could you kindly reveal the reason for giving me a -ve rating for my post #503?
In order to not repeat the mistake in the future I must know what it was in the first place.
At the moment I am clueless.

 

[F.O.X]

@F.O.X
Sir, could you kindly reveal the reason for giving me a -ve rating for my post #503?
In order to not repeat the mistake in the future I must know what it was in the first place.
At the moment I am clueless.

Pressed it by mistake on my phone. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Either Russia will sell the Su-35 directly to Pakistan or transfer the Su-35 from China to Pakistan. Russian is willing to sell the helicopter, Tank, Air defence system to Pakistan.

Pakistan shopping list/interested from Russia.
Fighter: Su-30 used, Su-35, Su-37
Engine: for Jf-17 (local production)
Helicopter: Mi-17, Mi-35M and Mi-28NE
Tank: T-14 Armata, T-90 Bhishma
Heavy IFV: T-15 Armata
Air Defence system: PANTSIR S 2 and BUK M3 and S-300/S-400

Russia is simply not going to sell any offensive platform that challenges Indian conventional superiority in the sub continent, at best we can except some tailored made chinese alternatives and slowly push for indigenous subsystems no matter how minuscule they are.

Tailored made JF17 is a step in right direction, still a long way to go, goodday

 

[PakEye]

SU-35 might be placed in Sargodha and I wish to see F-16s coming to Pasni...

I think it will be use for deep sea strike and maritime mission .