Indo-China war Inevitable ?
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GHATAK
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If you have some technical or data based discussions on the Indian and Chinese military, please come up. But if you start talking history, then dont expect others to keep quiet.
So lets keep the discussion to only current data - weapons-training-experience-political environment etc.
Thanks.
x_man
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90% of PLAAF assests/bases are located in north, east and southeast of China.....due to unfriendly terrain/lanscape and worst weather conditions ( for flying) in south China, there are very few Main and Forward operating bases in South or southwest...
Following this link...Scramble on the Web - Chinese Air Forces....then scroll down a bit and click on PLAAF Order of battle....you will see the details of the bases and their locations that you might be interested in...
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mxiong
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That site's info is pretty outdated. China has built quite a few civilian-military dual-use airports in Tibet in recent years. There are no fighters regularly stationed at these airports, but they can be deployed very quickly if situation deteriorates.
Lhasa Airport:
Google Maps
Xigazê Airport:
Google Maps
Qamdo Airport:
Google Maps
Milin Airport:
Google Maps
Ngari Airport: (Under construction till 2009)
P.S. There are also large numbers of military airports in the provinces neighboring Tibet including Yunnan, Sichuan, Qinghai and Xinjiang. PLAAF's modern fighters such as J-10, J-11, JH-7 and H-6 could strike the Sino-Indian border from those bases with or without tankers.
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Myth_buster_1
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Kanwa Asia defence News..
2008/07-15
Ballistic Missile/Nuclear Weapon: China reinforces nuclear and conventional deterrence against india.
Air force news: China reinforces air defence in southwest region.
Air Force News: China deploys more HQ-9 ground-to-air missiles.
2008/07-15
Ballistic Missile/Nuclear Weapon: China reinforces nuclear and conventional deterrence against india.
Air force news: China reinforces air defence in southwest region.
Air Force News: China deploys more HQ-9 ground-to-air missiles.
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Myth_buster_1
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Kanwa Asia defence News..
2008/04/16
Air force News: China to receive last batch of S300MPU2 SAMs
Indicating that China has received four battalions (16 batteries) of S-300MPU2 that it orderd in 2003..
Sinodefence
Myth_buster_1
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JK!
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Kindly share your sources on the status of these projects. Thanks.
Myth_buster_1
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i have already provided latest Kanwa news regarding HQ-9 deployment... Kanwa is the most trust worthy website on Asian Defence similar to janes defence. have to subscribe in order to get full news, online/print magazine, latest pictures and videos.. the best part is its Chinese meaning for us we get full detail J-10 JF-17 F-22p etc coverage!
GHATAK
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There are seven air bases on the Indian side of the border at Mohanbari, Chabua, Guwahati, Hashimara, Jorhat, Tezpur, and Bagdogra.
Mohanbari, Dibrugarh
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=27.483209&lon=95.020403&z=18&l=0&m=a&v=2
Chabua,
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=27.463576&lon=95.118299&z=14&l=0&m=a&v=2
Jorhat,
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=26.730126&lon=94.175062&z=13&l=0&m=a&v=2
Guwahati,
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=26.105735&lon=91.584821&z=13&l=0&m=a&v=2
Tezpur,
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=26.709656&lon=92.782331&z=14&l=0&m=a&v=2
Bagdogra.
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=26.684935&lon=88.325626&z=18&l=0&m=a&v=2
Itanagar,
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=27.587301&lon=93.828521&z=14&l=0&m=a&v=2
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Myth_buster_1
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PLA's rapid reaction capability in Tibet
Hong Kong, China The eruption of riots in Tibet in March reflected an increasingly complicated political situation there, involving both internal and external factors.
Internally, the peaceful and nonviolent approach of the Dalai Lama toward China has encountered greater resistance from the young generation of Tibetans, and the Dalai Lamas political relevance has been gradually marginalized as a result.
Externally, Indias China policy is now at a critical point, and India-China relations are likely to slip backward if they fail to quickly progress. India is adjusting the deployment of its armed forces along its border with China to guard against a Chinese intrusion.
Meanwhile, as the Beijing Olympic Games approach, the faction in Tibet that favors a showdown with the Chinese leadership views the present time as the best opportunity to put greater pressure on Beijing.
Under these circumstances, the Tibet issue is likely to remain the focus of attention by various parties before the Olympic Games, and constant protests by the Tibetans can be expected.
Chinas handling of the Tibet riots was very similar to the way it dealt with the 1989 demonstrations in Tiananmen Square. In the early phase, a large number of regular troops from the Peoples Liberation Army were sent to the scene to deter the protesters.
Within 48 hours of the start of the riots in Lhasa, T-90/89 armored personnel carriers and T-92 wheeled infantry fighting vehicles appeared on the streets as the 149th Division of the No. 13 Group Army under the Chengdu Military Region was dispatched to Lhasa.
This rapid troop deployment indicates that with the completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railroad in 2006, the rapid reaction capability of the Chinese armed forces in the Tibet region, particularly the ability to quickly maneuver heavy equipment, has been greatly enhanced.
This is indicated by the fact that the PLA soldiers on the T-90/89 vehicles on the streets of Lhasa were all wearing the leopard camouflage uniforms specifically designed for mountain warfare operations. These uniforms have appeared in video footage of the 149th Division during exercises.
When unrest occurred in Tibet in 1989 and a curfew was imposed in Lhasa, the 149th Division was also the first PLA combat unit to arrive on the scene. At that time, the army troops entered Tibet via the Sichuan-Tibet highway.
The 149th Division is based at Leshan in Sichuan province. As for the T-92 armored vehicles that appeared in Lhasa, the No. 52 Mountain Brigade of the Tibet Military Region received the vehicles around 2000.
The military value of the Qinghai-Tibet railway has thus been demonstrated in the rapid reaction of the PLA armed forces to the Lhasa riots.
Should China-India relations deteriorate to the verge of military confrontation and the riots in Tibet spread extensively, the first combat units of the PLA to be called to action would be the No. 52 and No. 53 Mountain Brigades under the Tibet Military Region.
The No. 52 Brigade, stationed at Linzhi, is highly mechanized and armed with T-92 wheeled armored vehicles and HJ-8/9 anti-tank missiles. National highway 318 directly connects Linzhi and Lhasa; thus it is logical to conclude that the T-92 wheeled armored vehicles on the streets of Lhasa were from this brigade. The No. 52 Mountain Brigade is stationed at Milin and is also the PLA combat unit stationed closest to the city of Lhasa.
National highway 318 is in fact the southern route of the Sichuan-Tibet highway. In the event of war or future large-scale riots in Tibet, the highway will be the key passageway for combat troops from the Chengdu Military Region to enter Tibet.
However, this key highway runs across the Minjiang River and the Daduhe River in a region with an average altitude of 4,250 meters (around 14,000 feet) above sea level, and thus is very susceptible to attack by the Indian Air Force or assault by organized rioters. Most of the highways within the Tibet region will be within striking range of the Su-30MKI fighters soon to be deployed in the No. 30 Squadron of the Indian Air Force at Tezpur.
If the T-90/89 armored personnel carriers used in Lhasa were indeed from the 149th Mechanized Rapid Reaction Division of the Chengdu Military Region, they were most likely transported first from Chongqing to Xining, then to Golmud to connect to the Qinghai-Tibet railway and continue on to Lhasa. The whole journey would take about 48 hours.
Such troop movements would be much faster and cheaper than before. Calculated on the basis of being able to transport most of the heavy equipment of a whole mechanized division within 48 hours it is unlikely that all the divisions equipment would be moved the PLA would be able to transport approximately 10 light mechanized divisions and some heavy mechanized divisions through the railroad to Tibet from the Lanzhou and Chengdu Military Regions within 30 days.
Of course, should there be a military conflict between China and India, the Qinghai-Tibet railway would be a prime target for air strikes by the Su-30MKI fighters of the Indian Air Forces No. 30 Fighter Squadron, the MiG-27 fighters of the No. 22 Squadron at Hashimara and the Jaguar attackers of the No. 5 Squadron at Ambala.
The only obstacle to this mass movement of regular armed troops and equipment would be the capacity of Qinghai-Tibet railway and the number of available trains. China once claimed that the annual transport capacity of the railway was 5 million tons, an average of 13,888 tons per day.
The average load capacity of one Chinese train car is normally 60 tons, with about 20 cars in each cargo train. This would mean that each train could transport 1,200 tons, and thus 11 trains traveling both ways would be enough for each day. In time of war, the actual number of trains running on the railroad could double to roughly 20 trains both ways each day.
Suppose the total weight of the equipment and combat material needed for one rapid reaction division of the Chinese army was around 15,000 tons, the Qinghai-Tibet railway could transport a whole rapid reaction division on one average day. In other words, within every one-and-a-half to two days, China could move one rapid reaction division from the Chengdu Military Region or one rapid reaction division from the Lanzhou Military Region to Tibet.
Chinas air transport capability also needs to be taken into consideration. Additional airborne troops, rapid reaction troops and armed police could be directly delivered to Lhasa from the air. Since airdrop operations would take place in the Tibet region, there would be no need for ground-based air defense firepower. Thus, the No. 15 Airborne Division could be airdropped to Tibet, and equipment such as airborne fighting vehicles could be put to use.
In recent years, China has made great effort to revamp the Qinghai-Tibet highway and the Sichuan-Tibet highway. National highways 214, 317 and 109 the shortest routes into Tibet by land are now all asphalted. If China were to have a military confrontation with India, highway transport could be more reliable should the Qinghai-Tibet railway be damaged.
The railway would allow the 61st Plateau Rapid Reaction Motorized Division of No. 21 Group Army under the Lanzhou Military Region and the 149th Rapid Reaction Motorized Division of the Chengdu Military Region to quickly enter Tibet.
Hong Kong, China The eruption of riots in Tibet in March reflected an increasingly complicated political situation there, involving both internal and external factors.
Internally, the peaceful and nonviolent approach of the Dalai Lama toward China has encountered greater resistance from the young generation of Tibetans, and the Dalai Lamas political relevance has been gradually marginalized as a result.
Externally, Indias China policy is now at a critical point, and India-China relations are likely to slip backward if they fail to quickly progress. India is adjusting the deployment of its armed forces along its border with China to guard against a Chinese intrusion.
Meanwhile, as the Beijing Olympic Games approach, the faction in Tibet that favors a showdown with the Chinese leadership views the present time as the best opportunity to put greater pressure on Beijing.
Under these circumstances, the Tibet issue is likely to remain the focus of attention by various parties before the Olympic Games, and constant protests by the Tibetans can be expected.
Chinas handling of the Tibet riots was very similar to the way it dealt with the 1989 demonstrations in Tiananmen Square. In the early phase, a large number of regular troops from the Peoples Liberation Army were sent to the scene to deter the protesters.
Within 48 hours of the start of the riots in Lhasa, T-90/89 armored personnel carriers and T-92 wheeled infantry fighting vehicles appeared on the streets as the 149th Division of the No. 13 Group Army under the Chengdu Military Region was dispatched to Lhasa.
This rapid troop deployment indicates that with the completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railroad in 2006, the rapid reaction capability of the Chinese armed forces in the Tibet region, particularly the ability to quickly maneuver heavy equipment, has been greatly enhanced.
This is indicated by the fact that the PLA soldiers on the T-90/89 vehicles on the streets of Lhasa were all wearing the leopard camouflage uniforms specifically designed for mountain warfare operations. These uniforms have appeared in video footage of the 149th Division during exercises.
When unrest occurred in Tibet in 1989 and a curfew was imposed in Lhasa, the 149th Division was also the first PLA combat unit to arrive on the scene. At that time, the army troops entered Tibet via the Sichuan-Tibet highway.
The 149th Division is based at Leshan in Sichuan province. As for the T-92 armored vehicles that appeared in Lhasa, the No. 52 Mountain Brigade of the Tibet Military Region received the vehicles around 2000.
The military value of the Qinghai-Tibet railway has thus been demonstrated in the rapid reaction of the PLA armed forces to the Lhasa riots.
Should China-India relations deteriorate to the verge of military confrontation and the riots in Tibet spread extensively, the first combat units of the PLA to be called to action would be the No. 52 and No. 53 Mountain Brigades under the Tibet Military Region.
The No. 52 Brigade, stationed at Linzhi, is highly mechanized and armed with T-92 wheeled armored vehicles and HJ-8/9 anti-tank missiles. National highway 318 directly connects Linzhi and Lhasa; thus it is logical to conclude that the T-92 wheeled armored vehicles on the streets of Lhasa were from this brigade. The No. 52 Mountain Brigade is stationed at Milin and is also the PLA combat unit stationed closest to the city of Lhasa.
National highway 318 is in fact the southern route of the Sichuan-Tibet highway. In the event of war or future large-scale riots in Tibet, the highway will be the key passageway for combat troops from the Chengdu Military Region to enter Tibet.
However, this key highway runs across the Minjiang River and the Daduhe River in a region with an average altitude of 4,250 meters (around 14,000 feet) above sea level, and thus is very susceptible to attack by the Indian Air Force or assault by organized rioters. Most of the highways within the Tibet region will be within striking range of the Su-30MKI fighters soon to be deployed in the No. 30 Squadron of the Indian Air Force at Tezpur.
If the T-90/89 armored personnel carriers used in Lhasa were indeed from the 149th Mechanized Rapid Reaction Division of the Chengdu Military Region, they were most likely transported first from Chongqing to Xining, then to Golmud to connect to the Qinghai-Tibet railway and continue on to Lhasa. The whole journey would take about 48 hours.
Such troop movements would be much faster and cheaper than before. Calculated on the basis of being able to transport most of the heavy equipment of a whole mechanized division within 48 hours it is unlikely that all the divisions equipment would be moved the PLA would be able to transport approximately 10 light mechanized divisions and some heavy mechanized divisions through the railroad to Tibet from the Lanzhou and Chengdu Military Regions within 30 days.
Of course, should there be a military conflict between China and India, the Qinghai-Tibet railway would be a prime target for air strikes by the Su-30MKI fighters of the Indian Air Forces No. 30 Fighter Squadron, the MiG-27 fighters of the No. 22 Squadron at Hashimara and the Jaguar attackers of the No. 5 Squadron at Ambala.
The only obstacle to this mass movement of regular armed troops and equipment would be the capacity of Qinghai-Tibet railway and the number of available trains. China once claimed that the annual transport capacity of the railway was 5 million tons, an average of 13,888 tons per day.
The average load capacity of one Chinese train car is normally 60 tons, with about 20 cars in each cargo train. This would mean that each train could transport 1,200 tons, and thus 11 trains traveling both ways would be enough for each day. In time of war, the actual number of trains running on the railroad could double to roughly 20 trains both ways each day.
Suppose the total weight of the equipment and combat material needed for one rapid reaction division of the Chinese army was around 15,000 tons, the Qinghai-Tibet railway could transport a whole rapid reaction division on one average day. In other words, within every one-and-a-half to two days, China could move one rapid reaction division from the Chengdu Military Region or one rapid reaction division from the Lanzhou Military Region to Tibet.
Chinas air transport capability also needs to be taken into consideration. Additional airborne troops, rapid reaction troops and armed police could be directly delivered to Lhasa from the air. Since airdrop operations would take place in the Tibet region, there would be no need for ground-based air defense firepower. Thus, the No. 15 Airborne Division could be airdropped to Tibet, and equipment such as airborne fighting vehicles could be put to use.
In recent years, China has made great effort to revamp the Qinghai-Tibet highway and the Sichuan-Tibet highway. National highways 214, 317 and 109 the shortest routes into Tibet by land are now all asphalted. If China were to have a military confrontation with India, highway transport could be more reliable should the Qinghai-Tibet railway be damaged.
The railway would allow the 61st Plateau Rapid Reaction Motorized Division of No. 21 Group Army under the Lanzhou Military Region and the 149th Rapid Reaction Motorized Division of the Chengdu Military Region to quickly enter Tibet.
Why do you assume that PLAAF would not have an AEW capability in place? They already have been working on it for a while and even flew this capability to Pakistan.
Yes and I am sure they will just let India off the hook for trying something like this. Lest you forget, they already are a superpower any which way you look at them. They can sustain a war longer, put pressure for longer, keep international pressure off for longer, veto the hell out of all international attempts to stop the war etc. etc.
60 odd MKIs and an assumed one-sided AEW capability will not make much difference when you are talking about teaching China a lesson.
Goodperson
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I cannot stop thinking how you got dragged into this, here are my 2 cents
True China has developed AEW capability after US pressured Israel not to sell Phalcons to China.
China knows the implications of War. War never happens between major powers after WWII.
Even though China is supposed to be a Superpower India cannot be ignored, Also China needs to worry about US , Russia and Japan.
True China has developed AEW capability after US pressured Israel not to sell Phalcons to China.
China knows the implications of War. War never happens between major powers after WWII.
Even though China is supposed to be a Superpower India cannot be ignored, Also China needs to worry about US , Russia and Japan.
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