India's Tejas and China's Xiaolong fighters compared

[GURU DUTT]

Dear Sir,plz dnt forget the upgraded F-16 sqns which may not be at par with Blk 52s but arent less potent too.Plus thunders have taken role of effective air policing now so y exclude them.MKIs are no doubt a worthy machine but IAF had long struggled with its Reliability and Serviceability issues so point is that would they be available in greater strength when needed?Yes Mirage 2000s,Mig 29s and Jags are in good shape and doing good though.Our F-7 fleet is a history may be in a couple of years max with being replaced by may b Block II/ III thunders .Plus plz dnt underestimate PAF Mirages as they might come with a big surprise to most of people.Well its never ending debate though but its not me who is pointing this out but rather its IAF and MOD who is in a fix as how to counter for all the emerging requirements in short time and that is why "Made in India" policy was sidelined in case of 36 Rafale deal.

well tell me what is the role intended for tejas in the first place and what do you think about it realitacalli taking into account the other factors which i earlier said thanks

Looks like that bump is hurting you in all the wrong places. LOL





that was aircraft of future in 1980 when you started work on it, and despite failing to fly till today, it is still an aircraft of future.........museum

what "bump" can u explain it i ding get what was your question and about the second part well u can beleve what you want but make no mistake tejasmakes many of anty indians fell jealous otherwise why would they waste there time in demeaning a enemies fighter when they know it cant make any diffrence i wonder what is that fear or insecurity about there future

 

[kaku1]

Get real. Tejas in the larger picture will not/ can not serve post 2025-30. The world is moving to 5th gen aircraft. Even countries like south korea, turkey, japan are working on their independent stealth programmes. Tejas was meant as a Mig-21 replacement back in 1980 and we are in 2015. It's requirement was not to fight 4.5 gen fighters but to replace 3rd gen Mig-21s.

Now with the rapid advancements in fighter technology IAF is desperately trying to upgrade a Mig-21 replacement as much as they could. This is the sole reason for such a long delay. According to original GSQR the LCA should have been inducted by now. The planners of LCA did not figure in the possibility of stealth jets.

Spending billions of dollars on a plane to replace entire fleets of Mig-21 (which is bulk of IAF) and which will ultimately have to be replaced in a decade or so would mean a lot of money going down the drain.

India should forget its ego and concentrate on 5th gen aircraft which is the real aircraft of tomorrow. LCA is good as a tech demonstrator or a advanced jet trainer. As a frontline fighter its role will always be limited due to design constraints.

P.S. - If it helps your ego the the same arguments also hold true for FC-1.

Facepalm, Hindustaan ka kuch nahe ho sakta,

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Facepalm, Hindustaan ka kuch nahe ho sakta,

No mate he is a habitual ; perennial critic
For whom every thing Indian is BAD and everything FOREIGN is good

 

[Indian Patriot]

well tell me what is the role intended for tejas in the first place

Mig-21 replacement, strictly speaking. It was not meant to be an "advanced version" of the mig-21 either. It was intended more like a desi version of the mig-21 and to demonstrate the capability of India to build its own aircraft. Unfortunately somewhere down the road it became a political ego and national pride issue.

You are right on Both counts

But Numbers ALSO matter

Even the most High tech planes have to spend a lot of time in HANGARS for Maintenance

Mig 21 is for Numbers

It take time to build planes ; they cannot be replaced overnight

China's aim is to have an ALL 4 Gen PLAAF by 2020

USAF will replace its older F 16 in a phased manner

First let them sort out their problems with F 35

It is better to have a Mig 21 doing Combat Air Patrol duty in the air
Otherwise if your skies are all clear then
EVEN a Transport plane like AN 32 will come and DROP
5 TONNES of explosives on your head

Numbers are not cheap.

An airforce is not always 100% ready. If any airforce, any airforce, in the world has 100 fighter jets then only 70 (maximum number) can be flown. And since this is the maximum possible number the more realistic scenario is only 50% jets would be war ready at any given time.

Planes need servicing and maintenance, for that they need spare parts and devoted mechanics working round the clock. That is why more experienced critics say that buying a 100 million dollar jet is easy, keeping the 100 million dollar jet flying is the expensive and harder part. Without supplies and spare parts an air force would be rusting on the ground.

Having numbers only would mean that finance which would have been otherwise dedicated to buying/making MKI spare parts will now also have to be diverted to LCA.

India should not take china as a role model and if they do then take it the full way. China makes her own weapons. It does not matter whether china begs/borrows/steals/copies foreign design. The thing is china makes everything on her own. India needs to do that as well.

USAF has problems with F-35 yes but they have a bidget of 700 billion dollars and multiple aeronautical companies. Even if F-35 is scrapped they will come up with another design. Their ultimate goal is an all stealth fighter air force.

What good is Mig-21 for CAP? That way you might as well have a armed drone flying in the sky.

IAF needs to induct quality instead of quantity. A 240 MKI + 240 Rafale air force would be far superior than having a 100 of every MKI, Rafale, Mig-21, LCA, mIG-27, Jaguar, Mig-29 etc.

In real war the aircraft other than MKI and Rafale would be useless. India does not have more than 55 Mirage which is too few.

 

[shah1398]

well tell me what is the role intended for tejas in the first place and what do you think about it realitacalli taking into account the other factors which i earlier said thanks


what "bump" can u explain it i ding get what was your question and about the second part well u can beleve what you want but make no mistake tejasmakes many of anty indians fell jealous otherwise why would they waste there time in demeaning a enemies fighter when they know it cant make any diffrence i wonder what is that fear or insecurity about there future

Well Sir since 1983 role of Tejas have changed a multiple times.At the beginning it was all about developing a local made in India fighter jet which has now been destined as a replacement of Bisons and to compensate for fast depleting fighter sqns of the IAF.Plz correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Some of you Indian fanboys are an embarrassment who need to wake up to reality. Having national pride is one thing and being delusional and cut off from reality is something else.

 

[kaku1]

No mate he is a habitual ; perennial critic
For whom every thing Indian is BAD and everything FOREIGN is good

Bhai, aap sai naa ho payega, rehne do.

Okey, seems like I need to burst your bubbles.
How many countries planning in how many numbers about 5th gen fighters? And how many countries still planning 4.5 gen fighter with how many numbers? And India not planing 5th gen fighters at all?

Or you want to make whole IAF of 5th Gen fighters? Bhai apne facts check kar liya karo, yun majak mat banwaya karo apana.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Well Sir since 1983 role of Tejas have changed a multiple times.At the beginning it was all about developing a local made in India fighter jet which has now been destined as a replacement of Bisons and to compensate for fast depleting fighter sqns of the IAF.Plz correct me if I am wrong.

Tejas was intended as a replacement for Mig-21.

But for various reasons the planned induction of LCA could not take place when required and air force technology evolved at a rapid pace. Today you have jets like Typhoon and Rafale while Tejas is still in progress. Thus to make Tejas air-worthy new and new requirements have been set down which is further adding to the delay.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Mig-21 replacement, strictly speaking. It was not meant to be an "advanced version" of the mig-21 either. It was intended more like a desi version of the mig-21 and to demonstrate the capability of India to build its own aircraft. Unfortunately somewhere down the road it became a political ego and national pride issue.



Numbers are not cheap.

An airforce is not always 100% ready. If any airforce, any airforce, in the world has 100 fighter jets then only 70 (maximum number) can be flown. And since this is the maximum possible number the more realistic scenario is only 50% jets would be war ready at any given time.

Planes need servicing and maintenance, for that they need spare parts and devoted mechanics working round the clock. That is why more experienced critics say that buying a 100 million dollar jet is easy, keeping the 100 million dollar jet flying is the expensive and harder part. Without supplies and spare parts an air force would be rusting on the ground.

Having numbers only would mean that finance which would have been otherwise dedicated to buying/making MKI spare parts will now also have to be diverted to LCA.

India should not take china as a role model and if they do then take it the full way. China makes her own weapons. It does not matter whether china begs/borrows/steals/copies foreign design. The thing is china makes everything on her own. India needs to do that as well.

USAF has problems with F-35 yes but they have a bidget of 700 billion dollars and multiple aeronautical companies. Even if F-35 is scrapped they will come up with another design. Their ultimate goal is an all stealth fighter air force.

What good is Mig-21 for CAP? That way you might as well have a armed drone flying in the sky.

IAF needs to induct quality instead of quantity. A 240 MKI + 240 Rafale air force would be far superior than having a 100 of every MKI, Rafale, Mig-21, LCA, mIG-27, Jaguar, Mig-29 etc.

In real war the aircraft other than MKI and Rafale would be useless. India does not have more than 55 Mirage which is too few.

What exactly are you trying to say

That we should junk all Mig 21 IMMEDIATELY
and leave GAPING holes in our air defences

As I said It takes time to build new planes

Once we have replacements we can junk them

AN armed drone cannot shoot down an intruder

An Air force is all about balancing needs

Since we have to take on PAF and PLAAF we need similar if not better planes

 

[Tipu7]

If it helps your ego the the same arguments also hold true for FC-1.

agree............. both Tejas and Thunders are fast replacement of old Mig 21 based air crafts. after 2020 their initial blocks will no longer be able to pose any threat to any modern air craft.

 

[kaku1]

agree............. both Tejas and Thunders are fast replacement of old Mig 21 based air crafts. after 2020 their initial blocks will no longer be able to pose any threat to any modern air craft.

Seriously? Then you are way wrong.

 

[Indian Patriot]

What exactly are you trying to say

That we should junk all Mig 21 IMMEDIATELY
and leave GAPING holes in our air defences

As I said It takes time to build new planes

Once we have replacements we can junk them

AN armed drone cannot shoot down an intruder

An Air force is all about balancing needs

Since we have to take on PAF and PLAAF we need similar if not better planes

Calm down you fool. I am saying India cannot afford to junk down its Mig-21 because of lack of funds. Capiche?

India still flying Mig-21s does not mean the mig-21 is a good aircraft or that IAF is doing a very smart thing. No sensible air force with access to money will be flying the migs.

An air force is not about balancing needs, whatever the hell that means?, but having the best possible aircraft. On one hand you are building/buying 5th gen aircraft and on the other hand you want to keep plying junk like Mig-21 because of your perceived notions of "balancing needs". LOL!!

 

[Stephen Cohen]

both Tejas and Thunders are fast replacement of old Mig 21 based air crafts. after 2020 their initial blocks will no longer be able to pose any threat to any modern air craft.

Tejas and Thunders can square off against each other

Neither India can deploy Su 30 MKI on 24/ 7 basis NOR can Pakistan
deploy F 16 on a 24/ 7 basis

The skies and air space is very vast ; Patrolling such a vast air space
on a 24 /7 basis is not easy that is why you need low cost planes

Similarly Army also needs close Air support

There too low cost planes are useful

 

[kaku1]

Tejas was intended as a replacement for Mig-21.

But for various reasons the planned induction of LCA could not take place when required and air force technology evolved at a rapid pace. Today you have jets like Typhoon and Rafale while Tejas is still in progress. Thus to make Tejas air-worthy new and new requirements have been set down which is further adding to the delay.

Okey, if Star Trek ships replace Mig-21, still you undermine that plane?

Tejas and Thunders can square off against each other

Neither India can deploy Su 30 MKI on 24/ 7 basis NOR can Pakistan
deploy F 16 on a 24/ 7 basis

The skies and air space is very vast ; Patrolling such a vast air space
on a 24 /7 basis is not easy that is why you need low cost planes

Similarly Army also needs close Air support

There too low cost planes are useful

Yes,

Even US can say lets make all air force of F-22 and F-35?

Why the hell they need F-16s?

 

[Indian Patriot]

agree............. both Tejas and Thunders are fast replacement of old Mig 21 based air crafts. after 2020 their initial blocks will no longer be able to pose any threat to any modern air craft.

I doubt if they would pose any threat even today. A Typhoon or Rafale would smoke them.

The thing is IAF, PAF and to an extent even PLAAF are all poor air forces who cannot afford the money to buy bigger and better planes. LCA is by no means a modern aircraft but against FC-1 of PAF it has a fighting chance just like it has a reasonable chance against PLAAF Mig-21 variants.

In the context of the enemy air forces planes like LCA are a decent enough option.