India's Orwellian drift

[jayron]

Pakistan doesn't need any justification for its creation, it has already been created. Pakistan doesn't need anything from Indian Muslims. Trust me, you don't want to go down the 'Pakistan and the Blasphemy Law' route again, read what happened in the 'Muslims in the Indian Army' thread when trolls like you diverted the main topic.

I don't see any other reason for your rather silly argument . But still you are better than the other guy who thanked God for creation of Pakistan because Indians do not allow public slaughter of cows.

 

[53fd]

Because I actually have family in India, and I am an ethnic Indian Bihari. My mother is actually from Patna, & she hadn't even visited Pakistan before her marriage. My father was born in Ranchi, & he moved to Pakistan when he was 3. My mother's family stayed. Our lands in Khujwa were brutally taken away from us by Hindu mobs before 1947 (btw, we are not Zamindars, or involved in politics in any kind of way, we belong to an educated Shia family), which is why my mother's side had to move from Khujwa to Patna. And after 1947, they also had to move from Patna to other cities like Lucknow & Delhi. I also have extended family in Amroha, UP. I have been to India twice, & I've been to Delhi, Patna, Amroha, Lucknow. My family has been in Bihar since the early 1500's, so I know what the situation in Bihar & UP (where my extended family lives) is. It is not the same situation that Muslims in Delhi or Hyderabad have. Muslims in Delhi are prosperous, but the majority Indian Muslims (like my family) that live in places like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand are discriminated and treated horribly on every level, from the Hindu mobs to the state level. These things have a personal meaning to me. I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying.

 

[toxic_pus]

No one's asking for an exact ratio. However, it is troubling news when almost every 1/3rd prisoner of a jail in Maharashtra is a Muslim. It shows specific discrimination against them.

I am not sure what you mean by 'discrimination' in this particular context. Are you suggesting that Indian police shoves the Muslims into prison willy-nilly?

And like I have exposed before, the Malegaon attacks & many other attacks in Maharashtra for which Muslims were convicted were actually done by Hindutva terrorists, yet they were never convicted.

And whose investigations revealed this Hindutva terror link? Indian agencies or Indian agencies?

 

[LaBong]

Kerala has 20% Muslims, but only 10.4% of government employees are Muslim. In Karnataka, Muslims form 12.23% of populace and 17.5% of those imprisoned. Muslims form only 10.6% of the population in Maharashtra , but 32.4% of the prison inmates there are Muslims.

Are you trying to show Muslims are more prone to crime than other religious groups?

 

[53fd]

Yes, the Hindutva terror link has been exposed. Follow the Swami Aseemanand's (ex-RSS leader) verbal testimonies & documented evidence of the elaborate planning of Hindutva groups of terrorist activities in Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, Haryana and other states of India; and getting the Muslims blamed for these terrorist activities.

 

[jayron]

Because I actually have family in India, and I am an ethnic Indian. My mother is actually from Patna, and she hadn't even visited Pakistan before her marriage. My father was born in Ranchi, and he moved to Pakistan when he was 3. My mother's family stayed. Our lands in Khujwa were brutally taken away from us by Hindu mobs before 1947, which is why my mother's side had to move from Khujwa to Patna. And after 1947, they also had to move from Patna to other cities like Lucknow and Delhi. I also have extended family in Amroha, UP. I have been to India twice, and I've been to Delhi, Patna, Amroha, Lucknow. My family has been in Bihar since the early 1500's, so I know what the situation in Bihar & UP (where my extended family lives) is. It is not the same situation that Muslims in Delhi or Hyderabad have. Muslims in Delhi are prosperous, but the majority Indian Muslims (like my family) that live in places like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand are discriminated and treated horribly on every level, from the Hindu mobs to the state level. These things have a personal meaning to me. I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying.

Those people are discriminated not because they are muslims but because they are generally poor. In UP, Bihar the muslims are usually converted from lower caste landless peasants. So they still are oppressed and backward. Muslims of Hyderabad, Delhi belonged to the ruling or land owning classes. So they are more prosperous. Most South Indian ie, Tamil, Malayali muslims converted because of Arab trade and hence are quite well off.

 

[53fd]

I am not sure what you mean by 'discrimination' in this particular context. Are you suggesting that Indian police shoves the Muslims into prison willy-nilly?


Yes, I believe the Indian police does that.

 

[KS]

Because I actually have family in India, and I am an ethnic Indian. My mother is actually from Patna, and she hadn't even visited Pakistan before her marriage. My father was born in Ranchi, and he moved to Pakistan when he was 3. My mother's family stayed.

Fair enough.

Our lands in Khujwa were brutally taken away from us by Hindu mobs before 1947

Tough luck. But the same thing happened to Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan. It was not exactly a one way street.

(btw, we are not Zamindars, or involved in politics in any kind of way, we belong to an educated Shia family), which is why my mother's side had to move from Khujwa to Patna. And after 1947, they also had to move from Patna to other cities like Lucknow and Delhi. I also have extended family in Amroha, UP. I have been to India twice, and I've been to Delhi, Patna, Amroha, Lucknow. My family has been in Bihar since the early 1500's, so I know what the situation in Bihar & UP (where my extended family lives) is. It is not the same situation that Muslims in Delhi or Hyderabad have. Muslims in Delhi are prosperous, but the majority Indian Muslims (like my family) that live in places like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand are discriminated and treated horribly on every level, from the Hindu mobs to the state level. These things have a personal meaning to me. I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying.

Wrong - Even the Hindus in UP,Bihar lag behing the Hindus in Gujarat and South India. Does that mean they too are discriminated ? It means the BIMARU (Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and UP) states were traditionally behind most other states in development.

And as for the Hindu mobs - you just made them up..Didnt you ? Cos the state governments in UP is staunchly pro-minority and so was the one in Bihar.

Yes, the Hindutva terror link has been exposed. Follow the Swami Aseemanand's (ex-RSS leader) verbal testimonies & documented evidence of the elaborate planning of Hindutva groups of terrorist activities in Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, Haryana and other states of India; and getting the Muslims blamed for these terrorist activities.

Still not proved chap. Its alleged.

And we do have the confession of Dawood Gilani (David Headly) that he along with LeT plotted the Samjauta blasts. What do ya say to that ?

 

[notsuperstitious]

I am not sure what you mean by 'discrimination' in this particular context. Are you suggesting that Indian police shoves the Muslims into prison willy-nilly?


Yes, I believe the Indian police does that.

Beliefs fall under religion.

 

[LaBong]

I am not sure what you mean by 'discrimination' in this particular context. Are you suggesting that Indian police shoves the Muslims into prison willy-nilly?


Yes, I believe the Indian police does that.

Well we can't argue belief, can we?

 

[53fd]

Are you trying to show Muslims are more prone to crime than other religious groups?

I think Muslims are more prone to being indicted & convicted wrongfully than other groups. The Swami Aseemanand trial, & the exposed Hindutva activities in Rajasthan (Ajmer Sharif), Hyderabad (Mecca Masjid), Malegaon etc & the conviction of Indian Muslims for the actions of Hindutva extremists proves my point.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Because I actually have family in India, and I am an ethnic Indian. My mother is actually from Patna, and she hadn't even visited Pakistan before her marriage. My father was born in Ranchi, and he moved to Pakistan when he was 3. My mother's family stayed. Our lands in Khujwa were brutally taken away from us by Hindu mobs before 1947 (btw, we are not Zamindars, or involved in politics in any kind of way, we belong to an educated Shia family), which is why my mother's side had to move from Khujwa to Patna. And after 1947, they also had to move from Patna to other cities like Lucknow and Delhi. I also have extended family in Amroha, UP. I have been to India twice, and I've been to Delhi, Patna, Amroha, Lucknow. My family has been in Bihar since the early 1500's, so I know what the situation in Bihar & UP (where my extended family lives) is. It is not the same situation that Muslims in Delhi or Hyderabad have. Muslims in Delhi are prosperous, but the majority Indian Muslims (like my family) that live in places like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand are discriminated and treated horribly on every level, from the Hindu mobs to the state level. These things have a personal meaning to me. I don't know if you can understand what I'm saying.

I appreciate the fact that you consider yourself as an ethnic Indian and care enough about your family here to have visited India twice.

Let me tell you about MY family history. We are originally from Multan, but the riots in 1946-47 ensured that the ENTIRE hindu population of that area was systematically cleansed. Almost all hindu families of the area were either burnt or forced to leave for India. As a result, we don't even have a single link left to our past.

Please think twice about treatment of muslims in India, at least they didn't endure complete cleansing like your country. I'm sure there are issues with discrimination and mistreatment, but for the areas that you mentioned (west UP and Bihar), that is very common, even for lower class Hindus. Do not consider yourself as someone who has been singled out brother.

 

[53fd]

Well we can't argue belief, can we?

We can, by quoting specific evidences. I have given you statistical and on ground evidences (Ajmer Sharif, Malegaon, Mecca Masjid) against the Indian authorities when it comes to dealing with Indian Muslims.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Are you trying to show Muslims are more prone to crime than other religious groups?

I think Muslims are more prone to being indicted & convicted wrongfully than other groups. The Swami Aseemanand trial, & the exposed Hindutva activities in Rajasthan (Ajmer Sharif), Hyderabad (Mecca Masjid), Malegaon etc & the conviction of Indian Muslims for the actions of Hindutva extremists proves my point.

You are talking abt one case, where there were no convictions btw, and the case itself was cracked open by not martian, but Indian police.

If that case is your argument, then you are not talking objectively, but only repeating your broken record as nauseam.

 

[KS]

Are you trying to show Muslims are more prone to crime than other religious groups?

I think Muslims are more prone to being indicted & convicted wrongfully than other groups. The Swami Aseemanand trial, & the exposed Hindutva activities in Rajasthan (Ajmer Sharif), Hyderabad (Mecca Masjid), Malegaon etc & the conviction of Indian Muslims for the actions of Hindutva extremists proves my point.

We can, by quoting specific evidences. I have given you statistical and on ground evidences (Ajmer Sharif, Malegaon, Mecca Masjid) against the Indian authorities when it comes to dealing with Indian Muslims.

I have repeatedly said that they are only alleged and not proved in a court of law. And there are confessions from Muslims too about their participation in these very blasts.

Lets the courts decide and then we shall talk. Till then stop this BS.