India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal

[LeGenD]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/11051426

Bhai meray, it is more a tool of making money by providing a false sense of security than an actual interceptor. I'm sure it can make SOME interceptions if the icbm missile flying from continent to continent but it largely is a tool of making money by providing a false sense of security. Kinda like that drug truvada that promises to prevent hiv infection, it just provides a very expensive false sense of security.

Bro,

Nothing can overcome cook-the-book arguments because they are mostly grounded in wild imaginations, and borderline stupid.

A product is judged on the basis of its advertised operational parameters, not on the basis of human imagination.

THAAD is not the endgame of BMD missions. Much like any other man-made product in history, THAAD is designed to provide security under a given set-of-circumstances, but it is an excellent product and will deliver as advertised.

 

[amardeep mishra]

and making ballistic missiles change trajectories isn't rocket science...it's been done to as a measure to defeat interception, not rocket science (no pun intended).

Hi @GumNaam
I am afraid you're talking about MaRV- maneuvering RVs. I'd like to point out that MaRV is very different from MIRVs. MaRV does have capability to change course however realizing such a system is very complex. Only a hand full of countries have actually demonstrated a MaRV capability as against MIRV capability. In Indo-Pak scenario this is non starter because neither India nor Pakistan has demonstrated MaRV.
Also a MaRV is indeed a rocket science- a very complex indeed. The reason for that are manifolds, for instance in order to initiate even a slightest of turns at lets say mach 10(to avoid the interceptor) would put enormous pressure on the warhead structure. Since we are talking about MaRVs, it implies there will be some sort of terminal guidance strategy. This in turn implies that lateral acceleration based PN guidance suite will be used. The commanded lateral acceleration to meet the requirement of LoS should be within the structural limits. Now imagine making even a slight yaw of lets say 5degrees at mach 10 or higher.
In the case of India and Pakistan, we are concerned with either unitary warheads or MIRVs. And with every passing time, the interception capability of India is only getting better. For instance in this launch test there were a lot of new things-
1) There were fins on the nose
2) The interceptor was launched from a cannister.
3) The interceptor could for the first time discriminate between actual target and decoy.
Now the reason why interceptors can discriminate between target and decoy is because of "beta coefficient" of actual warhead and decoy. A decoy generally has beta coefficient different from the actual warhead. In order to make a decoy with beta coeff same as that of actual warhead one would need to fabricate the decoy in such a manner that it resembles the warhead in not only in shape and size but also "weight". The last criteria will restrict how many RVs a bus can carry and thus nullify the very purpose of MIRV.
I am actively working in nonlinear and intelligent control, GNC etc.

And finally, the huffpost article you quoted is not written by an "expert" but rather by someone who is from humanities and I take anything written by social activists with a pinch of salt. Here is that guy's linked in profile-
https://www.linkedin.com/in/asiainstituteculturetech/
As a final note, kindly learn to proof cite your comments.

 

[420canada]

I dont see that india is bluffing or just bosting. If its indiginous that very good for them.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Hi @GumNaam
I am afraid you're talking about MaRV- maneuvering RVs. I'd like to point out that MaRV is very different from MIRVs. MaRV does have capability to change course however realizing such a system is very complex. Only a hand full of countries have actually demonstrated a MaRV capability as against MIRV capability. In Indo-Pak scenario this is non starter because neither India nor Pakistan has demonstrated MaRV.
Also a MaRV is indeed a rocket science- a very complex indeed. The reason for that are manifolds, for instance in order to initiate even a slightest of turns at lets say mach 10(to avoid the interceptor) would put enormous pressure on the warhead structure. Since we are talking about MaRVs, it implies there will be some sort of terminal guidance strategy. This in turn implies that lateral acceleration based PN guidance suite will be used. The commanded lateral acceleration to meet the requirement of LoS should be within the structural limits. Now imagine making even a slight yaw of lets say 5degrees at mach 10 or higher.
In the case of India and Pakistan, we are concerned with either unitary warheads or MIRVs. And with every passing time, the interception capability of India is only getting better. For instance in this launch test there were a lot of new things-
1) There were fins on the nose
2) The interceptor was launched from a cannister.
3) The interceptor could for the first time discriminate between actual target and decoy.
Now the reason why interceptors can discriminate between target and decoy is because of "beta coefficient" of actual warhead and decoy. A decoy generally has beta coefficient different from the actual warhead. In order to make a decoy with beta coeff same as that of actual warhead one would need to fabricate the decoy in such a manner that it resembles the warhead in not only in shape and size but also "weight". The last criteria will restrict how many RVs a bus can carry and thus nullify the very purpose of MIRV.
I am actively working in nonlinear and intelligent control, GNC etc.

And finally, the huffpost article you quoted is not written by an "expert" but rather by someone who is from humanities and I take anything written by social activists with a pinch of salt. Here is that guy's linked in profile-
https://www.linkedin.com/in/asiainstituteculturetech/
As a final note, kindly learn to proof cite your comments.

We don't need marvs against you

 

[Mrc]

Same thing people used to say about ISRO...
Slowly but surely we are achieving the goals and objectives... And you are here just to troll and to derail the thread... That's all you have got

First operational tank was made in 1913...


Word is operational arjuna

 

[Fawadqasim1]

3) The interceptor could for the first time discriminate between actual target and decoy.

How this is something which even americans can't do

 

[HariPrasad]

I dont see that india is bluffing or just bosting. If its indiginous that very good for them.

For last few years, we have stopped putting the videos of our test on net. Videos of our old test are already there on net including actual video and infrared images which anybody can see. Second, which country would have given us the technology to single out decoy and kill it?

 

[axisofevil]

U guys have shittiest record in world for weapons development and claims come out of all holes day and night .... that's what's that comment was about

Do you realistically have an idea the impact we suffered under arms embargoes, tech denial, etc?

 

[dilpakistani]

India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal.

Zachary Keck
,
The National Interest•August 13, 2018

Zachary Keck" data-reactid="18" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Zachary Keck

Security, Asia" data-reactid="19" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Security, Asia

India’s efforts to build a homegrown ballistic missile defense system achieved a major success.
India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal.

India’s efforts to build a homegrown ballistic missile defense system achieved a major success.

On August 2nd, India tested its Advanced Area Defence (AAD)/Ashvin Advanced Defense interceptor missile against decoy targets for the first time.


The Diplomat speculates that this was the first test of the new indigenous imaging infrared (IIR) seeker, which was developed to help the interceptors distinguish warheads from decoy/dummies.


The use of decoys are a more cost effective way to try to confuse missile defense systems enough so that the warheads get through to their target. Either way, though, India’s missile defense systems will need to be able to engage multiple targets simultaneously.

The most recent test was overseen by the Defense Research Development Organization (DRDO), the premier defense technology agency within India’s Ministry of Defense. It took place at Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha in the Bay of Bengal.

The AAD is a single-stage solid-fueled hit-to-kill interceptor missile that destroys hostile missiles in the terminal phase of flight. The press release says it is capable of destroying targets at altitudes of 15 and 25 kilometers.

The AAD had been tested at least five times before this most recent one. Those include tests in December, March and February 2017 as well as one a piece in 2016 and 2015.

The Diplomat’s Gady says the earlier tests were all against Prithvi-II or III short-range ballistic missiles. Given the range cited in the press statement, the test this month was against a different and more powerful missile." data-reactid="31" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">The Diplomat’s Gady says the earlier tests were all against Prithvi-II or III short-range ballistic missiles. Given the range cited in the press statement, the test this month was against a different and more powerful missile.


Besides trying to build its own missile defense systems, India is also looking to purchase them from abroad. For years there have been reports that India is interested in buying Russia’s S-400 air and missile defense system.



Recommended: Forget the F-35: The Tempest Could Be the Future

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Around the same time, Viktor N. Kladov, director for international cooperation and regional policy of Rostec, a massive Russian conglomerate, made similar comments, saying that negotiations over the S-400 had reached a “very profound stage.”


India also recently announced it would spend $1 billion to purchase a National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System-II (NASAMS-II) to protect the capital city of Delhi. Built by the U.S. firm Raytheon and the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defense and Aerospace, India intends to use the NASAMS to deal with cruise missile and other aerial threats against the capital.

Times of India[/a], referring to the AAD and Prithvi systems, “it will be deployed to protect cities like Delhi and Mumbai... The NASAMS, in turn, is geared towards intercepting cruise missiles, aircraft, and drones.”

Washington, DC is also protected in part by the NASAMS.

Zachary Keck (@ZacharyKeck) is a former managing editor of The National Interest.

Image: Reuters. " data-reactid="45" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Image: Reuters


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...n-now-take-decoys-thats-really-big-deal-28627

Normally what is the counter to such a system? i have read a bit about it ... no particular counter to this kinda technology is available so far.... other than the opposite side should also have the similar system to balance it out.

 

[amardeep mishra]

How this is something which even americans can't do

Read my post once again especially the part where it say "beta coefficient". Thanks in advance.
Also it is nearly impossible to detect an actual warhead and decoy with same ballistic coeff(beta coeff).

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Read my post once again especially the part where it say "beta coefficient". Thanks in advance.
Also it is nearly impossible to detect an actual warhead and decoy with same ballistic coeff(beta coeff).

how can an iir sensor data determine the beta coefficient of all the targets in space.

 

[khanmubashir]

That's why India is most ignorunt country in world
Small in size Decoys r designed to make similar radar and thermal signature of real warhead
It's a bs claim that u can differentiate between em

U can stack several decoy with each warhead
It's more bs propaganda to fool bhagats
For coming elections

 

[Fawadqasim1]

the only useful type of data is high resolution x band radar data which is used for tracking and painting the targets as well as determining their ballistic trajectories using high-speed computers. Humy mamoo bna rahe ho

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Please ignore any topic from Nationalinterest.

This website has Indian writers and most of the topics are pro Indians with anti-Pakistan rhetoric all the time. The quality of their write ups is also deplorable so any topic coming from this website should not be taken seriously. This has been established in the past as well by old members but don't know why people keep coming up with threads from this source.

 

[aman_rai0007]

First operational tank was made in 1913...


Word is operational arjuna

Okk... From Tejas you have shifted to Arjun on a missiles defence thread...
As said earlier... Senior member are here just to derail the thread...