India’s Anti-Terror Troops Despise Their Assault Rifle

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Let me get this right, you are saying hitting power (also known as terminal ballistics) of the same cartridge when fired from two different platforms is different.

the only scenario in which that is possible if the breach block is not sealing effectively causing excess headspace in that case cartridge if fired will rupture and I atleast have never heard of that. now as Insas has the same rotating bolt as the AK, thus if the breach doesn't seal then the round will not cycle and cause will cause the cartridge to tear everytime and will be unsafe. From the factory it will reject on the headspace gauge.

No to address the thoery of different terminal ballistics of the same round fired from a Tavor and a Insas.

Terminal ballistics rely on two prime criterions, Velocity and Diameter of the projectile. As the round in context for both rifle systems is the 5.56 x 45 Nato, the diameter is constant, so the obvious culprit you are pointing to is the velocity though both the rounds.

muzzle velocity is determined by the quality (burn speed, expansion) and quantity of the propellant, the mass of the projectile, and the length of the barrel. Length of the barrel on insas rifle is 18.3 in compared to a 18.1 in a Tavor.
Assuming you are using the same round on both system with same propellent and samr grain bullet, Insas will actually give you slightly better muzzle velocity than the Tavor.


The only way your argument is correct is if the tavor teams you identified in your posts are using better match grade ammunition compared to the regular insas contingents.

Also you might have inadvertently brought about good point for the Insas system, If the forces are consistently taking head and neck shots with the Insas, it definitely is damn accurate system,

Look man,I am not a qualified expert on small arms to get into technicalities like you.I shared what was told to me by the soldiers who carry it.

However,about your point on accuracy.I havent ever come across anyone saying that INSAS is not accurate.So which means it is obviously doing good with the accuracy thing.

 

[acetophenol]

^^^INSAS with Carl Zeiss Reflex sight

^^ The same with Sikh LI Ghataks at joint exercise with China

^^Scopeless INSAS with Sikh LI regulars at the same exercise.

So what are yoiu trying to imply..that IA uses INSAS..Yes it does man.

Is it anywhere near a decent AR..Nope.

The video i posted was to show you that only 1 or 2 guys out of the entire GHATAK sqaud use INSAS.If you cant see that mate i am sorry i am talking to someone with a blinded logic.

I have even given you the timings where I've spotted INSAS, and for sure its more than "1 or 2 guys".

And instead of blindly parroting "INSAS is a not a decent rifle", prove it bro.

IA using them in CT Ops, Ghataks are using them, BSF is using them , MARCOS is using them and that too in the most challenging condtions.And still if you are claiming INSAS is not a decent rifle, you have to prove it without loop holes.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The video i posted was to show you that only 1 or 2 guys out of the entire GHATAK sqaud use INSAS.If you cant see that mate i am sorry i am talking to someone with a blinded logic.

Bro, much of what you are saying is again down to the 7.62mm vs 5.56mm issue and not a debate on the capabilities of the INSAS as a decent rifle.

The reason AKs are preferred by the IA in a COIN environment are down to the round it fires not because the INSAS is an inferior weapon.

For COIN the IA sees it as 7.62mm > 5.56mm simple as that. And for that the INSAS can hardly be blamed, it fires the round it was designed to fire as outlined by the IA.

 

[MilSpec]

Look man,I am not a qualified expert on small arms to get into technicalities like you.I shared what was told to me by the soldiers who carry it.

However,about your point on accuracy.I havent ever come across anyone saying that INSAS is not accurate.So which means it is obviously doing good with the accuracy thing.

Point taken! I will try and talk some friend to get some info. thanks

Actually, rounds exitng INSAS does have a better muzzle velocity as compared to the Tavor-21, about 5 m/s, even though the standard round fired by the INSAS is 64-grains. The Tavor uses the Israeli supplied ammunition btw, eiher the 55 grain or the 62 grain, I'm not certain.

I was about to post the same rational arguments you stated about the ballistic performance of the INSAS, but then realised it's not worth the time to try and explain senior school physics to people blinded by ignorance.

Until and unless the bullet exiting Tavor suddenly turns into the god-damned Hulk, it will have the same effect as the INSAS on the target if it hits it. Please do note that this logic only works in the world of physics, not in the world of vendetta and ignorant tripe. If people had complained about the accuracy of the INSAS, I'd probably consider it a worthwhile bone of contention, but to state that the same round

I don't think @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has anything against the Insas, his opinion is based on his interaction with the users. That is fine.

I dont claim to be any expert, I am just a firearms enthusiast. In my experience the true nature of a system can only be evaluated by comprehensive testing, and not by testimonials.

That is the nature of testimonials, lets not forget Army doesn't give free passes to D-psu's either. They have consistently rejected Ofb Rifles such as the kalantak, amogh, minsas etc. There is no reason to assume that Army would induct a rifle system that doesn't pass it's criterion.

And then in a close knit organisation like army contingents, one opinion can to travel fast. This is what happened to M16A2 in vietnam, M249 in Iraq and the m1carbine in WWII.

So testimonials are good feedback, but not the sole source for evaluation.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Bro, much of what you are saying is again down to the 7.62mm vs 5.56mm issue and not a debate on the capabilities of the INSAS as a decent rifle.

The reason AKs are preferred by the IA in a COIN environment are down to the round it fires not because the INSAS is an inferior weapon.

For COIN the IA sees it as 7.62mm > 5.56mm simple as that. And for that the INSAS can hardly be blamed, it fires the round it was designed to fire as outlined by the IA.

Bro,just got on the phone with my friend.the problem he told me is that..

Firstly,the firing pin breaks easily.

piston head goes back and you got to hit the butt on the ground to get it sorted...cocking handle needs releasing with more force because the piston head get stuck.

The range of Tavor is 700m while of INSAS is 400mtrs.

The bullet sometimes leaves the casing inside and the next round get stuck or burst.
I am not qualified to talk on technical terms but this is what i got to hear.Its upto you to trust a soldier or senior high school physics.

@sandy_3126

 

[MilSpec]

Bro,just got on the phone with my friend.the problem he told me is that..

Firstly,the firing pin breaks easily.

piston head goes back and you got to hit the butt on the ground to get it sorted...cocking handle needs releasing with more force because the piston head get stuck.

The range of Tavor is 700m while of INSAS is 400mtrs.

The bullet sometimes leaves the casing inside and the next round get stuck or burst.
I am not qualified to talk on technical terms but this is what i got to hear.Its upto you to trust a soldier or senior high school physics.

@sandy_3126

Hi,

From what your friend is saying, it seems like a head space issue. I would recommend using a head space gauge to check the spacing. Range again is a misnomer, here same barrel lengths with same cartridge and same twist ratio will shoot more or less the same distance. The key differnce being what type of optics are used.

AR15's shoots the same range as a tavor or the Aug, the accuracy might differ.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Hi,

From what your friend is saying, it seems like a head space issue. I would recommend using a head space gauge to check the spacing. Range again is a misnomer, here same barrel lengths with same cartridge and same twist ratio will shoot more or less the same distance. The key differnce being what type of optics are used.

AR15's shoots the same range as a tavor or the Aug, the accuracy might differ.

One more thing he told me which i forgot to add is that there is some gas problem which causes recoil problem..He says sometimes the charge is more and sometimes its less.

Sorry for the desi language but he is a soldier(ex RR best rifleman award winner and Ghatak currently).Getting info out of officers is difficult.

 

[MilSpec]

One more thing he told me which i forgot to add is that there is some gas problem which causes recoil problem..He says sometimes the charge is more and sometimes its less.

Sorry for the desi language but he is a soldier(ex RR best rifleman award winner and Ghatak currently).Getting info out of officers is difficult.

That is a ammunition issue, If there is inconsistent charge in the the cartridge that will happen.

One product of the OFB i can openly criticize is their ammunition. I have heard numerous instances where the charge has been seriously inconsistent.