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India’s Anti-Terror Troops Despise Their Assault Rifle

I dont know whom you refer to but my interaction is with RR and the Infantry Ghataks/Commandos who are second only to Para.If they dont like something i trust them.

Probably you can ask them why the Infantry soldiers prefer Brens and AKs in RR and LOC deployments if they are in touch with the foot soldiers.

INSAS is a good rifle for Arty,Enginners,signals and other corps who wont actually fight a war.I think our foot soldiers deserve a better rifle and hence the IA is doing what it should have done long back.

Had the INSAS even been a decent rifle the IA wont be ordering AR,LMG and carbines from abroad.

Infantry has been using INSAS widely in the valley as well as for LOC deployements widely. AKs are preferred by RR for the advantage of 7.62 mm rounds in CT scenarios.

And about the statement in bold, you are talking as if IA inducted INSAS yesterday and are replacing them today! INSAS has been in service for IA and other services for more than 15 years! Don't forget that!

And if IA is replacing INSAS due to poor performance , they would've been looking for another rifle of the same class and they could've done the same anytime before, which they didn't. Instead, they are walking through paths not taken by anyother army in the world, looking for MultiCal rifles as standard issue, which clearly points to a change in doctrine.

In short INSAS is being replaced because its a poor performer, but the doctrine of IA is changing from the use of a single caliber to multi caliber.

Correct me if I am wrong but is the INSAS based on a similar design to the Galil?

There are similarities with AKs, FN FALs, HK33s,AUGs and Galils.
 
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To make a terrible weapon worse, the Insas had a habit of spraying oil directly onto the handler’s face and eyes.



Then in 2005, Maoist rebels attacked a Nepalese army base. The Nepalese troops had Insas rifles bought from India. During the 10-hour-long battle, the rifles overheated and stopped working. The Maoists overran the base and killed 43 soldiers.

“Maybe the weapons we were using were not designed for a long fight,” Nepalese army Brig. Gen. Deepak Gurung said after the battle. “They malfunctioned.”


There’s lots of redundant parts and features that seem to serve no purpose except to make the rifle more complicated and expensive to produce. Its plastic hand guard is wobbly. The gas cylinder—which powers the reloading mechanism—is prone to breaking.


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item #2 in and of itself should have been the deal breaker right there....

i've never fired the weapon but from what i hear it requires too much maintenance and cant handle harsh conditions the way an AK47 (which is 7.62mm) would

they also have had issues with INSAS @ Siachen, where indian soldiers were improperly lubricating the barrels...partly to blame for what is called "cold arrest" - could be material failure
 
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XgSQT.jpg


^^ Updated INSAS

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INSAS in CT Ops @ Kashmir
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Have you ever even touched the INSAS?or come remotely close to see someone firing it?
Nope's I haven't fired the Insas, but I have fired quite a few other platforms chambered in 5.56 nato, 7.62 Nato, 7.62 x 54R, .300 AAC blackout, 6.8SPC, 243 Win etc.Build quality of Insas varies over the years. In all I dont think it is that bad of a frankenstien as it is made out to be. If you have any experience on the Insas plz share.

Oil spills,frequent breakdowns and poor build quality is not 5.56 vs 7.62 debate.
That is interesting, because you were the one who complained about hitting power, I am assuming the muzzle velocity is the same as any other 5.56 variant, with similar grain weight for the bullet.
The Assault Rifle Insas didnt have a full auto mode..what kind of a assault rifle is that?And it is more expensive than an AK.

M16A2 entered service with the same configuration of burst, semi and safe, If IA wasnted a full auto, I dont think it would be difficult to accomodate, afterall it's about a lever notch on the breech lock.


As far as the LMG is concerned it has the full auto mode but lacks hitting power and i have doubts on it suppressing enemy targets compared to PKM,Bren,SAW or the Pak Army MG 3

Again, your so called hitting power is in direct reference to the caliber of the weapon unless I am misunderstanding it's application as club. I am not sure which one would do better as that. (j k) I am sure no one is dancing around joyfully when suppression fire is being laid by a Insas, btw M249 is also a LMG chambered in 5.56.

LMG classification is a misnomer as the MMG and LMG lines are quite blur.

Correct me if I am wrong but is the INSAS based on a similar design to the Galil?
I am not a big fan of Insas, But I think it is a decent rifle, In the past I too have been critical of this rifle.

Insas rifle system has been a very effective low cost solution that utilized the best to offer from three rifle systems, viz. AK47, FN FAL, and the M16.

The action, long stroke gas system, rotating bolt, and stamped steel receiver gives it the ruggedness and reliability of an AK47, the Gas regulator from the FAL give it the ability to cycle rounds, even if the rifle’s gas piston is clogged. Although It has a stamped receiver, the tolerances are kept significantly tight along with the lesser reciprocating breach axis offset compared to AK, gives it reliable accuracy.

Although 5.56x 45 Nato attracts a lot of flak from critics, it is the most flat shooting round upto 300 yards, and is effective up to 600 yards. The 7.62 x 39, the AK round has better terminal ballistics, the rounds justs drops too much. When 7.62 x 39 is zeroed at 100 yards, the compensation at 400 yards is nearly 60 inches making the target nearly disappear from the sight picture( which is the engagement range for IA positions in LOC), With a 5.56 you will have to compensate lesser, but compromise on terminal ballistics which a fair tradeoff, as you are hitting the target (if not completely neutralizing him).

Insas is controllable in full auto like the m16, whereas FAL becomes an ack ack in full auto and with and ak47 "you spray and pray". When the Insas was introduced, there was no 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 grendel options hence 5.56 was lesser of evil when it came to developing a battle rifle.All these mix and match features gave you a reliable, low cost, accurate rifle borrowing on best features of contemporaries and minimizing drawbacks of the each mentioned systems.


INSAS assault rifle (India)
 
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It would be better to equip your CPRF with .303 rather than giving them this ugly INSAS ...that too older versions ...!


Don't worry. The terrorists on this side of the border drop down like flies nonetheless.
 
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...t but the issues were there till 2011..
Wrong - most issues were resolved by 2002-03.

Let's be clear - INSAS isnt the best rifle in the world. Newer ones like Tavor are definitely better. But calling INSAS a shitty rifle only indicates that you are parroting the foreign lobby.

Also, you really need to figure out why you hate the INSAS. First it was polymer cracks and Oil leaks. Then it was 7.62 vs 5.56. Then LMG. and now Tavor. You are shifting goalposts every time you are getting proved comprehensively wrong. You should really give up now.
 
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It would be better to equip your CPRF with .303 rather than giving them this ugly INSAS ...that too older versions ...!

We have sent many Jihadist to so called Heaven with the help of INSAS ...And you looks unhappy with INSAS...
 
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Lets talk about the pics you posted.

1st pic is i dont know from where.

2nd pic is from Commando School in Madhya Pradesh----NO CT Ops there.

3rd pic is of a Infantryman...check his epaulette.

4th pic is again of a infantry battalion.

In Infantry battalion the GHATAKS use AK and the regulars use INSAS.Big statement as i say but you guys are nowhere what i call being neutral.
 
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Nope's I haven't fired the Insas, but I have fired quite a few other platforms chambered in 5.56 nato, 7.62 Nato, 7.62 x 54R, .300 AAC blackout, 6.8SPC, 243 Win etc.Build quality of Insas varies over the years. In all I dont think it is that bad of a frankenstien as it is made out to be. If you have any experience on the Insas plz share.


That is interesting, because you were the one who complained about hitting power, I am assuming the muzzle velocity is the same as any other 5.56 variant, with similar grain weight for the bullet.


M16A2 entered service with the same configuration of burst, semi and safe, If IA wasnted a full auto, I dont think it would be difficult to accomodate, afterall it's about a lever notch on the breech lock.




Again, your so called hitting power is in direct reference to the caliber of the weapon unless I am misunderstanding it's application as club. I am not sure which one would do better as that. (j k) I am sure no one is dancing around joyfully when suppression fire is being laid by a Insas, btw M249 is also a LMG chambered in 5.56.

LMG classification is a misnomer as the MMG and LMG lines are quite blur.


I am not a big fan of Insas, But I think it is a decent rifle, In the past I too have been critical of this rifle.

Insas rifle system has been a very effective low cost solution that utilized the best to offer from three rifle systems, viz. AK47, FN FAL, and the M16.

The action, long stroke gas system, rotating bolt, and stamped steel receiver gives it the ruggedness and reliability of an AK47, the Gas regulator from the FAL give it the ability to cycle rounds, even if the rifle’s gas piston is clogged. Although It has a stamped receiver, the tolerances are kept significantly tight along with the lesser reciprocating breach axis offset compared to AK, gives it reliable accuracy.

Although 5.56x 45 Nato attracts a lot of flak from critics, it is the most flat shooting round upto 300 yards, and is effective up to 600 yards. The 7.62 x 39, the AK round has better terminal ballistics, the rounds justs drops too much. When 7.62 x 39 is zeroed at 100 yards, the compensation at 400 yards is nearly 60 inches making the target nearly disappear from the sight picture( which is the engagement range for IA positions in LOC), With a 5.56 you will have to compensate lesser, but compromise on terminal ballistics which a fair tradeoff, as you are hitting the target (if not completely neutralizing him).

Insas is controllable in full auto like the m16, whereas FAL becomes an ack ack in full auto and with and ak47 "you spray and pray". When the Insas was introduced, there was no 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 grendel options hence 5.56 was lesser of evil when it came to developing a battle rifle.All these mix and match features gave you a reliable, low cost, accurate rifle borrowing on best features of contemporaries and minimizing drawbacks of the each mentioned systems.


INSAS assault rifle (India)

The INSAS is not a low cost option.It is quite expensive.The thing is that the Army messed it up initially by ordering something which does not match their requirements.There are numerous instances of it breaking down or terrorists being hit but standing up again and firing.By god you can ask someone in the Army if you dont trust me.

As far as i know 5.56 doesnt mean that enemy should get up and fire back at you.Coz this is not what happens if you get hit by a Tavor.Indian soldiers had to go for head shots to neutralise a threat.I blame this on the Indian Army.

Now coming on the part where it breaks down.As recent as 2011 the problems continued.I believe either it was the earlier models which didnt get replaced or the newer one having the same problem.Either ways the soldier suffered and this is something which cannot be blammed on the Army.

When you make a rifle you want it to be rugged.This rifle is such that if you drop it then you brake the magazine specially in cold regions.

There is a reason the Army special units do not use this rifle.Infantry battalions even after having INSAS prefer AK for GHATAKS.CRPF rejected it.GARUDS rejected it.

I guess you gotta trust a soldier at the end of the day even if you prefer not being neutral.

Wrong - most issues were resolved by 2002-03.

Let's be clear - INSAS isnt the best rifle in the world. Newer ones like Tavor are definitely better. But calling INSAS a shitty rifle only indicates that you are parroting the foreign lobby.

Also, you really need to figure out why you hate the INSAS. First it was polymer cracks and Oil leaks. Then it was 7.62 vs 5.56. Then LMG. and now Tavor. You are shifting goalposts every time you are getting proved comprehensively wrong. You should really give up now.

I am from the neutral lobby.DRDO didnt pay me to spread a propoganda.Sorry.

And i have fired this gun in 2009.The problems continued.

Either i am wrong who has fired the rifle and interacted with many ex RR and Ghatak guys or you are right who hasnt even come close to the rifle and believes whatever he reads on the internet posted by some guys who prefer losing precious lives over fake pride because none of their family members life would be at stake with this rifle.
 
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@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro, a lot of what you are talking about is to do with he inherent issues of the 5.56mm vs the 7.62mm and this one can hardly blame the INSAS rifle for that. The INSAS does what it was meant to do- replace the FAL as the army's battle rifle and be as cheap (with no frills) as possible when doing so.
 
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INSAS was a good choice thats why IA bought it in million plus no. But its high time to replace it.
 
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We have sent many Jihadist to so called Heaven with the help of INSAS ...And you looks unhappy with INSAS...
Not me ...your guys get their face blackened with it ...if they love celebrating this kinda Holi with it ...no problem !

Don't worry. The terrorists on this side of the border drop down like flies nonetheless.
:omghaha:
 
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