Indian stock market overtakes France; becomes sixth biggest

[magra]

Why put money in the bank. Why not start a Business?

That is not my question. My question is do you have a bank account with any money in it?

 

[jamahir]

In this world, only North Korea has no stock market.

Then it is doing good.

As already mentioned, in govt run banks, the incentive for hardwork is less and so are consequences to officials for less hardwork. Hence, in general, private banks perform better. Nationalizing private banks would mean degrading their performance.

If by "incentive for hard work" you mean bank officers refusing people for loans then wasn't it you who said that stocks offering in stock markets should exist because banks can refuse loans to companies ? Else what do you mean by "incentive for hard work" ?

Moreover, what you are suggesting is that there should be only one bank - SBI - in the nation. That means monopoly. Monopolization breeds complacency and lack of innovation which drives down performance further.

The only reason for the existence of the bank should be to give out loans, have records for money transactions and have records for monthly loan repayments. Why then will be a need for 20 different banks to exist ? What can be innovation in this context ? And performance ?

Forget about profit, how will it even get any funds to give out if it does not give interest to people depositing money within the bank.

Money is an artificial construct. If you read my thread you will see that the money there simply is a monthly recycling amount for each citizen. It need not be deposited in a bank ( a savings account ) but primarily exist within the citizen's personal wearable computer in a secure digital storage. However, when citizens do financial transaction, whether on personal reasons or a B2B or B2C transaction, the amount is deducted in the personal computer and is also securely recorded by the bank so that not only is any loan amount repayment seriousness known but also political criminals ( assassins, saboteurs etc ) and anti-social criminals are not able to transact.

The "funds" in such a context are just numbers. They exist in the citizen's computer and the bank's computer.

Do you know any place where such a system is running on a national scale for a number of years without losses?

The Libyan Jamahiriya until its NATO+GCC invasion in 2011.

Having simple weddings is an entire different topic. I do agree on the concept of simple weddings, but we cannot enforce that as people should have the freedom to spend their money as they like on a grand wedding if they so choose to do. If that freedom is taken away, then the incentive to work hard for money is also taken away.

Nice that you agree on the concept of simple weddings but it is not a different topic. Many of the Indian suicided farmers borrowed from the organized finance companies and individual money lenders for the sake of conducting grand weddings especially for their daughters even if they were poor. And they borrowed on interest and the loan was to be repaid through the only income source they had - farming - which could fail. And some farmers borrow one more loan to repay the first. It's a vicious cycle which many times ends in the farmer committing suicide. Add to that the culture of dowry giving. Addition of that too in the loan.

Many middle class people may not commit suicide but even in these modern times they start collecting money and jewelry from the early years of their daughter's life. Some borrow too for the wedding. They do this instead of investing in starting a company. And many taking such loans become middle class poor.

The richer class conducts weddings on an even more obscene level. In 2004 Subrato Roy, the former chairman of Sahara Group, for the dual wedding of his two sons spent 552 crores on the wedding ! But to deflect any criticism for this spending he did this :

Not content with lavishing hospitality on his rich associates and friends, Mr Roy is feeding 140,000 poor people across India for a day and will give the equivalent of £2,000 to 101 local couples who want to marry but cannot afford to do so.

Further :

To ferry guests, Mr Roy chartered 27 of his company jets whose seats were strewn with orchids and carnations. In-flight entertainment consisted of games where the prizes were bundles of gold coins.

A fleet of 200 Mercedes cars whisked guests from the airport to the wedding. Awaiting them were "mountains of food" created by chefs specialising in Mexican, Chinese, Lebanese and Indian cuisine.

The garish festivities are set in one of the world's most penurious places. About 8% of the world's poor, some 60m people, live in Uttar Pradesh. Its health and literacy levels rank with the most poverty-stricken African countries.

 

[magra]

Then it is doing good.

In what world is North Korea doing good. It is one of the world's worst managed nation.

If by "incentive for hard work" you mean bank officers refusing people for loans then wasn't it you who said that stocks offering in stock markets should exist because banks can refuse loans to companies ? Else what do you mean by "incentive for hard work" ?

Bank officers have to give out loans only upto an acceptable risk level as they are playing with others' money. In stock market, you play with your own money and are free to take more risk if you want.

The only reason for the existence of the bank should be to give out loans, have records for money transactions and have records for monthly loan repayments. Why then will be a need for 20 different banks to exist ? What can be innovation in this context ? And performance ?

May be 20 banks are not needed. But at least half a dozen are needed for good competition and keeping each bank on its toes. Also, you have not yet explained me how does a bank get funds to give in a no-interest regime.

The Libyan Jamahiriya until its NATO+GCC invasion in 2011.

How were they getting funds in a no-interest environment. Who was funding the banks?

Nice that you agree on the concept of simple weddings but it is not a different topic. Many of the Indian suicided farmers borrowed from the organized finance companies and individual money lenders for the sake of conducting grand weddings especially for their daughters even if they were poor. And they borrowed on interest and the loan was to be repaid through the only income source they had - farming - which could fail. And some farmers borrow one more loan to repay the first. It's a vicious cycle which many times ends in the farmer committing suicide. Add to that the culture of dowry giving. Addition of that too in the loan.

We need more social messaging to reduce the cost of weddings and end dowry culture. Also, we need to go back to organic farming as inorganic farming requires farmers to buy seeds, pesticides, fertilizers etc for which they need to borrow.

 

[MH.Yang]

Then it is doing good.

Do you know North Korea?
They still live in the 1980s.

 

[SuperStar20]

Do you know North Korea?
They still live in the 1980s.

View attachment 778829

Nothing wrong in living in 1980's as long as everyone's basic needs are met and wealth distributed equally.

 

[magra]

Nothing wrong in living in 1980's as long as everyone's basic needs are met and wealth distributed equally.

Definition of basic needs have evolved over the centuries as the world has become more prosperous.

Earlier it was just - sufficient food, clothing and a safe place to live.
Then electricity was added, then phone connection, education, now internet.

In today's age, will you be okay to live in a society with just the 1st three basic needs - food, clothing, shelter?

 

[jamahir]

Do you know North Korea?
They still live in the 1980s.

View attachment 778829

Unlike Chinese the North Koreans don't have to go to India to get medical treatment.

And you posted a picture of some people with the same, regimented dress. There are vids and pics of North Koreans with colorful dress too. And it is so nice that private cars and two-wheelers are generally absent there.

Nothing wrong in living in 1980's as long as everyone's basic needs are met and wealth distributed equally.

Yes, they have free healthcare, free public transport, free education etc.

And they have modern amenities like LED TVs too.

In what world is North Korea doing good. It is one of the world's worst managed nation.

Please see above.

May be 20 banks are not needed. But at least half a dozen are needed for good competition and keeping each bank on its toes.

As I said, money is an artificial construct which should just exist in a computer. Even in Capitalist America it is like this. A bank has should have no other function than giving loan, keeping track of loan repayment and recording transaction. Is there a need for half a dozen banks to exist to do these three things ?

How were they getting funds in a no-interest environment. Who was funding the banks?

The funds came from sale of oil. Given time they would have perhaps adopted an evolved idea of money like the one I described.

We need more social messaging to reduce the cost of weddings

But why not have the most simplest of weddings in the court with a maximum attendance of five ? All well-wishers can later send their greetings over phone or email.

and end dowry culture.

In India the police seriously raid weddings where so-called child marriages are going on. It is another discussion that 16-year-old girls are also called children in recent India but if the police and "social activists" can raid such weddings in all seriousness and arrest the wedding arrangers then why can't they seriously raid weddings where dowry is being given and taken and arrest them ?

Also, we need to go back to organic farming as inorganic farming requires farmers to buy seeds, pesticides, fertilizers etc for which they need to borrow.

Organic Farming can be used but it has to be done in conjunction with two modern techniques - Vertical Farming and general Urban Farming.

Vertical Farming generally uses the crops being held in a holder / tray arrangement and the trays having recyclable water-based nutrient solution ( the hydroponics technique ) and above the holders will be electric LED lamps providing the light to the crops with the lamp light tunable to replicate the sunlight cycle and it seems that blue light that can be emitted by tunable LED lamps is better for plant growth. And these trays being stacked up to multiple levels in each floor of a building of five storeys. And the nutrient solution, the lamps and the plant growth monitored and controlled by computer. Even the farm's temperature can be controlled. You can potentially grow any type of crop ( say cauliflower, wheat and mango ) in a Vertical Farm.

Imagine if in the current Indian rural landscape the population of 20 villages is gathered and given a new township that has five Vertical Farms at neighborhood-level and the former village farmers retrained for this more scientific way of agriculture. And the township having every facility that modern cities have - malls, parks, cinema halls, free WiFi, restaurants etc and no former village culture is allowed to continue. Imagine such new townships dotting all over India. The country will be food-secure hugely. Side effect will be evolution of the former villagers. Imagine it many of the current Indian city dwellers are given such new townships with a few of the neighborhood's citizens designated to work in the Vertical Farm for a time per week in rotation. This is an article on an Indian website speaking on VFs.

Vertical Farming is the future of agriculture. It not only makes food-security in the world, eliminating threat by flood, drought, pest attack, hailstone, snow, storm and soil exhaustion, thus eliminating hunger. VF will also serve for food production on spacecraft and on other worlds.

About my mention of general Urban Farming it is in two senses - growing crops in empty / unused spaces in current cities and doing this as a temporary step towards VFs. Below picture is from Caracas city, capital of Venezuela :

 

[lightoftruth]

You say that banks should give loans but charge no interest. How will this work? How will banks pay salaries to its employees or pay rent on the building etc. In fact, how will they get funds to give loans since no one will deposit money in a bank without getting an interest on it.

Even if we assume that any company can take loan from bank, banks do need certain collateral as mandated by govt. Small firms often have little to offer as collateral, plus their level of risk is high enough for banks to decline loans. For these firms, stock markets are the best source to gain funds. Even large firms need to at times manage their debt levels, so they go for stock funding. I do not understand the harm in it.

He is talking about Islamic baking, most of these commies run their islamic agenda in the garb of social justice.

Their is no logic to it.

 

[jamahir]

He is talking about Islamic baking, most of these commies run their islamic agenda in the garb of social justice.

Their is no logic to it.

Yes, Islamic banking is one of the things I spoke about but do you have any rational and logical objection to it ?

 

[lightoftruth]

Yes, Islamic banking is one of the things I spoke about but do you have any rational and logical objection to it ?

Anyone who knows finance & knows how banks run will never accept it.

If you know what is WACC , Tax implications of no interest , hedging in banking institutions you will never talk such nonsense.

 

[jamahir]

Anyone who knows finance & knows how banks run will never accept it.

Were Prophet Isa, Prophet Muhammad and Marx graduates of the London School of Economics to have produced wonderful ideas on socio-economics ? Even I am not yet I have written down some sensible ideas.

If you know what is WACC , Tax implications of no interest , hedging in banking institutions you will never talk such nonsense.

I don't know what are WACC and hedging nor want to know them ( let's keep things simple in such an artificial construct as money ) and wasn't it BJP MP Subramanian Swamy himself who once spoke about wanting India to abolish income tax ?

 

[INS_Vikrant]

and wasn't it BJP MP Subramanian Swamy himself who once spoke about wanting India to abolish income tax ?

He's a loose mouth nutcase thats why he wasn't given finance ministry or any cabinet portfolio

 

[jamahir]

He's a loose mouth nutcase thats why he wasn't given finance ministry or any cabinet portfolio

Nevertheless he was right on this issue at least. Take one aspect of India as example. The government collects income taxes but doesn't even provide high-quality free healthcare and education. Why collect IT for then ?

 

[prashantazazel]

India has been extremely Capitalist for the last 3000 years and this must be changed.

We are extremely socialist. Government spends a lot on free food/subsidised food/free education/ free healthcare.
You still want more. Percentage wise, that is hard to be done. Because you need capital to be able to distribute it.
India is run on the back of the top 10 percent. People at the bottom don't care about anything more then basic existence.
Even middle class people lack in ambition.
So if your disrupt the upper classes by trying to capture their wealth, Indian economy will crash.
Remember, we don't lack farmers.
We lack businessmen.

A basic thing about most human beings= they won't work harder than they currently do, unless the reward is much bigger.


Further, you seem to want more state monopolies. Bad idea. In that case, the leadership of the country will become totalitarian, and will start enjoying all the perks you associate with industrialists.
Eg- Gaddafi.

 

[Mentee]

^^ I was expecting the commie to make the exact post. LOL! Never cease to amaze.

I take it as an "exonertaing" statement to not to blame The Lord when God forbid your stock end up losing value over night and also for the subsequent socio economic repercussions which comes with it.