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Indian opinion on CPEC

Hindu won't even talk about implementation of UN resolutions. And cried to UN to stop Pakistan then :lol:

If India can't and won't give up that area against the wishes of Kashmiri people then bring on the war and take our side by force or shut the f*** up about roads going through GB.

You are hated by the population in your controlled area and we are loved by those in our controlled. And you can't handle that and roads.

Please refrain from using the word 'Hindu' for Indians; it adds a communal tinge to the discussion.

I have nothing to say about the merit of the rest of your arguments, and do not want to get into a discussion on that, but do want to ask you to be restrained on this very small point.

Kashmir is a Muslim majority state that as per partition wishes to be part of a independent Muslim state outside the influence of a Hindu India.

The kashmiris do not wish to be as dickless and de-balled as Indian Muslims



Credible strength has nothing to to with it,

The people of a Muslim majority Kashmir just want freedom from being under the occupation of a hindu India, they want partition that was denied them the right to separate and not have to live with Hindus

Forcing them has created emnity in south asia

Please check your facts.

The Muslim League sought ONLY Bangladesh, Sindh, Punjab, and NWFP as Muslim majority provinces, not states, for Pakistan.

States was a term used for the regions ruled by princes under the suzerainty of the British Crown. The meetings of the rulers of the states was a separate body from anything that existed for the governance of British India. There were conditions attached to the choice of the princes.

NO partition was promised to the people of ANY state.

Your language against Muslim Indians is deplorable. I leave it to one of them to take it up with you.
 
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You are just romanticizing. Major language in Pakistan is Punjabi. Urdu is just official language. Pakistan is a Sunni nation. May be there is Sufi influence. But Sufism is not true Islam.

Just like Punjabi is major language in india. Don't try to be over smart and troll me.

Pakistan is a Muslim nation with Sufism it's fundamental and culture formed by Sufism Islamic values. You saying Sufism is not true Islam is like me calling London is not Britain.

No, it's a name given to the river Indus which flows through India and then through Pakistan Originating in Tibet.


Sindh is another name derived from Sanskrit word Sindhu meaning river. Indio/India was the name given by the greeks, and formalized by the Iranians, like the name Hindu which went further derivations to form India. Although every name was connected to the River.


India never held referendums in Hyderabad. We invaded Hyderabad and seized control. Those were princely states, that is why they refused to join the union. Similarly Pakistan invaded the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir. He seeded territory to India, we stopped your invasion. How difficult is to understand?

lol, you need to get proper education not your army or media propaganda.

India is derived from Sindh. All these names such as Hind, Hindu, Hindustan, India, Indus are derived from my home province of Sindh. India held refrendum in Junagadh and Manvadar after occupying those states. India occupied Hyderabad Deccan citing Hindu majority. Pakistan on the other hand never attacked any princely state. In Kashmir when Kashmiris started rebellious movement against Dogra's decision to stay independent instead of merging with Pakistan, Dogra's army decided to massacre and rape them. Kashmiris called Pakistanis for help and Pushtun tribals from FATA and Waziristan entered Kashmir, with the support of locals they thrashed Dogra forces throughout Gilgit Baltistan and western Kashmir, aft er which Dogra asked india for help, indian cunning politicians forced dogra to merge the state with india before india send troops and dogra agreed. India then invaded Kashmir and tried pushing back the Kashmiris and tribal from liberated territories, Pakistan then entered and stop indian advancements. Fierce battles were being fought by Pakistani and Indian troops after which india begged UN to help after which UN negotiated a ceasefire between both nations. How difficult is it to enter this in your skull?
 
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Just like Punjabi is major language in india. Don't try to be over smart and troll me.

Pakistan is a Muslim nation with Sufism it's fundamental and culture formed by Sufism Islamic values. You saying Sufism is not true Islam is like me calling London is not Britain.
I can't start an argument on that. But I can tell you this, prophet (SAW) never said anything about singing songs to praise almighty. Or do celebrations on mawlid. I have huge respect for their culture though.
India is derived from Sindh. All these names such as Hind, Hindu, Hindustan, India, Indus are derived from my home province of Sindh. India held refrendum in Junagadh and Manvadar after occupying those states. India occupied Hyderabad Deccan citing Hindu majority. Pakistan on the other hand never attacked any princely state. In Kashmir when Kashmiris started rebellious movement against Dogra's decision to stay independent instead of merging with Pakistan, Dogra's army decided to massacre and rape them. Kashmiris called Pakistanis for help and Pushtun tribals from FATA and Waziristan entered Kashmir, with the support of locals they thrashed Dogra forces throughout Gilgit Baltistan and western Kashmir, aft er which Dogra asked india for help, indian cunning politicians forced dogra to merge the state with india before india send troops and dogra agreed. India then invaded Kashmir and tried pushing back the Kashmiris and tribal from liberated territories, Pakistan then entered and stop indian advancements. Fierce battles were being fought by Pakistani and Indian troops after which india begged UN to help after which UN negotiated a ceasefire between both nations. How difficult is it to enter this in your skull?
I suggest you read more books rather than your history books. I'm pretty sure it's not Sindhus valley civilization.
And giving name doesn't mean anything, it's only an identity.

What rebellion? There was no major rebellion in Kashmir, only in the poonch sector they managed to have them attack few military supply lines and start a rebellion. The rebellion was aided and supported by Pakistan army. So, you supply them with weapons. And later the Pashtun tribes invaded the state. With a lot of pathans to fight. These savages wrecked havoc in the state killing hundreds of people.

Nobody called for any help, while Kashmir at the time had a balanced number of Hindu - Muslim.

Do you have any proof that, kashmiri people wanted Pakistan to invade them? Stop spewing BS. In 65 war it was evident when Kashmiri people betrayed you by tipping you off about the presence of Pak army. The covert operation, hoping the Kashmiri people will support and start another rebellion, went down the drain.

The war ended not because of the UN. Because Indians started to get the upper hand in all sectors. Poonch was finally relieved after a siege of over a year. The Gilgit forces in the High Himalayas, who had previously made good progress, were finally defeated. The Indians pursued as far as Kargil before being forced to halt due to supply problems.
Tell me, why would India go to UN at this stage. Even after Pak army joined the fight they couldn't manage any more area. While two third of Kashmir including jammu and Ladakh are with India.

Anyway, the reason you couldn't start war initially is because the British agreed the accession of Kashmir into India and refused to send Pakistan army (at the time commanded by British officers) citing legal accession.

Forget the people of Kashmir, it's a princely state. What legality Pakistan have over Kashmir?
 
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Please refrain from using the word 'Hindu' for Indians; it adds a communal tinge to the discussion.

The problem is actually a Hindu one. The reason for using Hindu is not to paint all Indians (millions of minorities) the same.
 
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I can't start an argument on that. But I can tell you this, prophet (SAW) never said anything about singing songs to praise almighty. Or do celebrations on mawlid. I have huge respect for their culture though.

Certain instruments to praise God is allowed in Islam. When Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.) came to Medina, the people welcomed him with song. There are certain occasions when it is allowed.

Among the entertainments, which may comfort the soul, please the heart, and refresh the ear is singing.
Islam permits singing under the condition that it is not in any way obscene or harmful to Islamic morals. There is no harm in its being accompanied by music, which is not exciting. In order to create an atmosphere of joy and happiness, singing is recommended on festive occasions such as the days of 'Eid, weddings and wedding feasts, births, 'aqiqat (the celebration of the birth of a baby by the slaughter of sheep), and on the return of a traveler.
'Aishah narrated that when a woman was married to an Ansari man, the Prophet (peace be on him) said, " 'Aishah, did they have any entertainment? The Ansar are fond of entertainment.'' (Reported by al-Bukhari.) Ibn 'Abbas said, " 'Aishah gave a girl relative of hers in marriage to a man of the Ansar. The Prophet (peace be on him) came and asked, 'Did you send a singer along with her?' 'No,' said 'Aishah. The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) then said, The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing, 'Here we come, to you we come, greet us as we greet you.' " (Reported by Ibn Majah.)

http://www.islamawareness.net/Music/music_fatwa005.html

I suggest you read more books rather than your history books. I'm pretty sure it's not Sindhus valley civilization.
And giving name doesn't mean anything, it's only an identity.

What rebellion? There was no major rebellion in Kashmir, only in the poonch sector they managed to have them attack few military supply lines and start a rebellion. The rebellion was aided and supported by Pakistan army. So, you supply them with weapons. And later the Pashtun tribes invaded the state. With a lot of pathans to fight. These savages wrecked havoc in the state killing hundreds of people.

Nobody called for any help, while Kashmir at the time had a balanced number of Hindu - Muslim.

Do you have any proof that, kashmiri people wanted Pakistan to invade them? Stop spewing BS. In 65 war it was evident when Kashmiri people betrayed you by tipping you off about the presence of Pak army. The covert operation, hoping the Kashmiri people will support and start another rebellion, went down the drain.

The war ended not because of the UN. Because Indians started to get the upper hand in all sectors. Poonch was finally relieved after a siege of over a year. The Gilgit forces in the High Himalayas, who had previously made good progress, were finally defeated. The Indians pursued as far as Kargil before being forced to halt due to supply problems.
Tell me, why would India go to UN at this stage. Even after Pak army joined the fight they couldn't manage any more area. While two third of Kashmir including jammu and Ladakh are with India.

Anyway, the reason you couldn't start war initially is because the British agreed the accession of Kashmir into India and refused to send Pakistan army (at the time commanded by British officers) citing legal accession.

Forget the people of Kashmir, it's a princely state. What legality Pakistan have over Kashmir?

You need to stop living in bollywood, else you will start thinking like that clip where it shows india is Supa pawa and have white servants.

Persian explorers visited the area even in ancient times, and the Iranian 'h' is cognate with Sanskrit 's'. Thus Sindhu became Hindu.
The name entered Greek from Persian, with the loss of the initial 'h', to become Indos, from which the Greeks derived their name for the region, India. The Latin form of Indos is Indus, the name by which the river system is still known in the West. Its name was given to the entire subcontinent by the Romans, who adapted it to the current India. The word India is the form used by Europeans over the ages.(Credits: Hetal Patel.)

The British ended the lease on August 1, 1947 and the Kashmir government had sent in its governor to Gilgit town but the populace as well as the Gilgit scouts — the main paramilitary force in the region — were unhappy with the move. The commandant of the Gilgit Scouts at that time was the young Major Brown, who helped by his assistant, Captain Matheison, planned a coup in favour of Pakistan if things became unmanageable. Then, as the news of the alleged accession of Kashmir to India reached Gilgit in late October 1947, Major Brown launched a coup on the night of October 31/November 1, 1947, arrested the Kashmir-appointed governor, secured the treasury, protected the minorities, and then sent a cable to the premier of the then NWFP, asking the Pakistani government to take over. While Major Brown was removed from his post in a few months due to his precarious position as a British army officer, it is sufficiently clear from all records that he indeed — rather than all the later claimants — was the person who led the Gilgit area into Pakistan. This was acknowledged officially by the Pakistan government, the erstwhile NWFP government, the first Pakistani political agent of Gilgit and even the Kashmir-appointed governor, Brigadier Ghansara Singh.

Nearly 70 years ago, the people of the Gilgit Wazarat revolted and joined Pakistan of their own free will, as did those belonging to the territories of Chilas, Koh Ghizr, Ishkoman, Yasin and Punial; the princely states of Hunza and Nagar also acceded to Pakistan.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1024253/gilgit-baltistan-part-of-pakistan-by-choice/

"The resistance started with ‘no tax campaign’ soon turning into an armed campaign. It started in Bagh district of Poonch, in the village of Neela Bhat near Dheer Kot, a public meeting was fired upon on 25th August by state forces recounts Qudratulah Shohab [Jammu born ICS officer First Chief Secretary of Pakistan Administered Kashmir (PaK)] in his voluminous Urdu treatise [Shohab Nama page 377]. Allistar Lamb in [Birth of a Tragedy’ Kashmir 1947-page 62] puts the date as 26th August, he doesn’t specify the place, simply mentions a place near township of Bagh. While as Lamb says, Poonch rebels fired back in the meeting itself, Shohab says Sardar Qayoom, who prides in calling himself ‘Mujahid-i-Awal’ organized a guerrilla force and attacked state forces-army and police two days later in Dheer Kot camp and demolished it. Hari Singh took the resistance head on, as guerrilla groups multiplied.
Poonch tribals had sister tribes in Hazara district on NWFP providing succour and support. ‘On 12th September’ writes Owen Bennet Jones [Pakistan-Eye of Storm-pub: Yale university press-2002, Penguin books-2005, page: 66] Pakistan’s Premier Liaquat Ali Khan had become involved in drawing up plans to help the rebels’. Jones [for long BBC’s point man in Pakistan] states emphatically that Pakistan ‘formulated a policy to fight for Kashmir by proxy’ [page 66]. He thus finds Pakistan’s policy at variance with India, which stresses Jones on the same page ‘showed no such inhibition regarding difficult Princely States’. The oblique reference seems to be pointed to police action in Hyderabad.
As J&K tribals were joined by tribes in Hazara District and tribes on the other bank of Jhelum, some bearing the same tribal name, though not bona fide residents of J&K State and as the tribes’ further away to west joined the campaign, what was internal as borne by historical facts became interno-external, as an internal disorder manifesting externally could be defined. Qayoom Khan-NWFP Chief Minister with a Kashmiri ancestry provided help, though on a personal level. Liaquat down there seemed to be reluctance to eschew official commitment-ambivalences galore!
On ‘accession to India being a fait-accompli’ pre 27th October intervention, India had the ground situation sewed up; the deft moves had a telling effect and could be counted as:
Planting Lt. Col Kashmir Sigh Katoch [S/o Thakur Janak Singh-interim Kashmir premier as adviser [based on Kashmir Durbar request]…13th September
Arranging for the provision of one civilian aircraft [from Dalmia Jain Airways, presumably a DC 3] to run a special service between Delhi and Srinagar…28th. September
Supplying wireless equipment to assist all-weather operations at Srinagar airport, to which supply flights could now begin to take in loads of arms and ammunition to J&K state forces from Indian stocks (which so soon after Second World War were indeed massive)…Ist. October
Preparations afoot for more effective telegraphic communication between India and Jammu and Srinagar
Improvement of the road from Indian Punjab border near Madhopur to Jammu by Indian Army engineers and a pontoon bridge over Ravi leading to Kathua
Mid October-sending actual troops as well as arms and equipment from Patiala state army [published Patiala sources suggest the intervention took place at a personal request from Nehru to Maharaja Yadavindra Singh]
These moves are noted in Alistair Lamb’s [Birth of a tragedy-Kashmir 1947-pub: Roxford Books-p: 71] I have categorized to simplify.
Mid October saw Colonel Shah, a Pakistan foreign office official trying to straighten out the strains in Pak/Kashmir relations. Victoria Schofield in [Kashmir in Conflict-India, Pakistan and Unfinished Conflict, I.B. Tauris-2000-page: 46] notes that Shah urged accession to Pakistan. " (Credits: Greater Kashmir Dr Javed Iqbal)

Unfortunately in 1947, Pakistan didn't had any functional media.
 
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Persian explorers visited the area even in ancient times, and the Iranian 'h' is cognate with Sanskrit 's'. Thus Sindhu became Hindu.
The word Hindu is derived from the Sanskrit word Sindhu which is the local name for the Indus River that flows through the north-western part of the Indian subcontinent. Sindhu also means sea. The word Hindu or Indu was used by Greeks to denote the country and people living beyond the Indus river. Megasthenes' 'Indica' epitomizes the name for India and Indians..
The British ended the lease on August 1, 1947 and the Kashmir government had sent in its governor to Gilgit town but the populace as well as the Gilgit scouts — the main paramilitary force in the region — were unhappy with the move. The commandant of the Gilgit Scouts at that time was the young Major Brown, who helped by his assistant, Captain Matheison, planned a coup in favour of Pakistan if things became unmanageable. Then, as the news of the alleged accession of Kashmir to India reached Gilgit in late October 1947, Major Brown launched a coup on the night of October 31/November 1, 1947, arrested the Kashmir-appointed governor, secured the treasury, protected the minorities, and then sent a cable to the premier of the then NWFP, asking the Pakistani government to take over. While Major Brown was removed from his post in a few months due to his precarious position as a British army officer, it is sufficiently clear from all records that he indeed — rather than all the later claimants — was the person who led the Gilgit area into Pakistan. This was acknowledged officially by the Pakistan government, the erstwhile NWFP government, the first Pakistani political agent of Gilgit and even the Kashmir-appointed governor, Brigadier Ghansara Singh.

Nearly 70 years ago, the people of the Gilgit Wazarat revolted and joined Pakistan of their own free will, as did those belonging to the territories of Chilas, Koh Ghizr, Ishkoman, Yasin and Punial; the princely states of Hunza and Nagar also acceded to Pakistan.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1024253/gilgit-baltistan-part-of-pakistan-by-choice/

"The resistance started with ‘no tax campaign’ soon turning into an armed campaign. It started in Bagh district of Poonch, in the village of Neela Bhat near Dheer Kot, a public meeting was fired upon on 25th August by state forces recounts Qudratulah Shohab [Jammu born ICS officer First Chief Secretary of Pakistan Administered Kashmir (PaK)] in his voluminous Urdu treatise [Shohab Nama page 377]. Allistar Lamb in [Birth of a Tragedy’ Kashmir 1947-page 62] puts the date as 26th August, he doesn’t specify the place, simply mentions a place near township of Bagh. While as Lamb says, Poonch rebels fired back in the meeting itself, Shohab says Sardar Qayoom, who prides in calling himself ‘Mujahid-i-Awal’ organized a guerrilla force and attacked state forces-army and police two days later in Dheer Kot camp and demolished it. Hari Singh took the resistance head on, as guerrilla groups multiplied.
Poonch tribals had sister tribes in Hazara district on NWFP providing succour and support. ‘On 12th September’ writes Owen Bennet Jones [Pakistan-Eye of Storm-pub: Yale university press-2002, Penguin books-2005, page: 66] Pakistan’s Premier Liaquat Ali Khan had become involved in drawing up plans to help the rebels’. Jones [for long BBC’s point man in Pakistan] states emphatically that Pakistan ‘formulated a policy to fight for Kashmir by proxy’ [page 66]. He thus finds Pakistan’s policy at variance with India, which stresses Jones on the same page ‘showed no such inhibition regarding difficult Princely States’. The oblique reference seems to be pointed to police action in Hyderabad.
As J&K tribals were joined by tribes in Hazara District and tribes on the other bank of Jhelum, some bearing the same tribal name, though not bona fide residents of J&K State and as the tribes’ further away to west joined the campaign, what was internal as borne by historical facts became interno-external, as an internal disorder manifesting externally could be defined. Qayoom Khan-NWFP Chief Minister with a Kashmiri ancestry provided help, though on a personal level. Liaquat down there seemed to be reluctance to eschew official commitment-ambivalences galore!
On ‘accession to India being a fait-accompli’ pre 27th October intervention, India had the ground situation sewed up; the deft moves had a telling effect and could be counted as:
Planting Lt. Col Kashmir Sigh Katoch [S/o Thakur Janak Singh-interim Kashmir premier as adviser [based on Kashmir Durbar request]…13th September
Arranging for the provision of one civilian aircraft [from Dalmia Jain Airways, presumably a DC 3] to run a special service between Delhi and Srinagar…28th. September
Supplying wireless equipment to assist all-weather operations at Srinagar airport, to which supply flights could now begin to take in loads of arms and ammunition to J&K state forces from Indian stocks (which so soon after Second World War were indeed massive)…Ist. October
Preparations afoot for more effective telegraphic communication between India and Jammu and Srinagar
Improvement of the road from Indian Punjab border near Madhopur to Jammu by Indian Army engineers and a pontoon bridge over Ravi leading to Kathua
Mid October-sending actual troops as well as arms and equipment from Patiala state army [published Patiala sources suggest the intervention took place at a personal request from Nehru to Maharaja Yadavindra Singh]
These moves are noted in Alistair Lamb’s [Birth of a tragedy-Kashmir 1947-pub: Roxford Books-p: 71] I have categorized to simplify.
Mid October saw Colonel Shah, a Pakistan foreign office official trying to straighten out the strains in Pak/Kashmir relations. Victoria Schofield in [Kashmir in Conflict-India, Pakistan and Unfinished Conflict, I.B. Tauris-2000-page: 46] notes that Shah urged accession to Pakistan. " (Credits: Greater Kashmir Dr Javed Iqbal)

Unfortunately in 1947, Pakistan didn't had any functional media.
This still doesn't question the legality of the accession by India. Your only claim was the instrument of accession was signed under distress. The distress created by Pakistan. We clearly exploited the situation of the King of Kashmir.
 
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The word Hindu is derived from the Sanskrit word Sindhu which is the local name for the Indus River that flows through the north-western part of the Indian subcontinent. Sindhu also means sea. The word Hindu or Indu was used by Greeks to denote the country and people living beyond the Indus river. Megasthenes' 'Indica' epitomizes the name for India and Indians..

This still doesn't question the legality of the accession by India. Your only claim was the instrument of accession was signed under distress. The distress created by Pakistan. We clearly exploited the situation of the King of Kashmir.

The name of Sindhu province came because of Sanskrit Sapta Sindhu referring to 7 rivers that combine to form 1 river hence the reason of Sindhu province name. The persians greeks english etc corrupted the name and the names of Indus, Sindh, Sind, Hind, Hindustan, India were derived. Sindhu people become Hindu people and so on and so forth. No matter how hard you wish but the facts won't change. Nobody knows bharat, it was IVC that was famous due to which Sindh's nae got famous.

You can exploit anything but remember all this wars and chaos is due to that one single exploitation. If India was sincere in peace, it had accepted the rights of self determination and refrendum for Kashmiris just like Junagadh, Manvadar and Hyderabad Deccan. Junagadh Manvadar ceded their territory to Pakistan then why india occupied and held refrendum? Because of Hindu majority, same with Hyderabad Deccan. So why hypocrisy on Kashmir.
 
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The problem is actually a Hindu one. The reason for using Hindu is not to paint all Indians (millions of minorities) the same.

I don't think so. Anyway, I made a humble request. There is nothing binding on you to desist from insulting an entire community. Nothing physically binding, that is.

Presumably you are a good Muslim.

The name of Sindhu province came because of Sanskrit Sapta Sindhu referring to 7 rivers that combine to form 1 river hence the reason of Sindhu province name. The persians greeks english etc corrupted the name and the names of Indus, Sindh, Sind, Hind, Hindustan, India were derived. Sindhu people become Hindu people and so on and so forth. No matter how hard you wish but the facts won't change. Nobody knows bharat, it was IVC that was famous due to which Sindh's nae got famous.

You can exploit anything but remember all this wars and chaos is due to that one single exploitation. If India was sincere in peace, it had accepted the rights of self determination and refrendum for Kashmiris just like Junagadh, Manvadar and Hyderabad Deccan. Junagadh Manvadar ceded their territory to Pakistan then why india occupied and held refrendum? Because of Hindu majority, same with Hyderabad Deccan. So why hypocrisy on Kashmir.

I am afraid that the name is precisely derived as @SOUTHie says; Sapta Sindhu is the seven seas, not the seven rivers. A superficial knowledge of anything leads to errors and misconstructions. Sindhu was a generic term for very large body of water, and has been frequently used as a synonym for 'sea'.

He was wrong in calling it Sanskrit; it was older, and used as such in Indo-Aryan. Presumably such glib talk about Sanskrit and about corruption of Sanskrit might be based on some idea of the differences, or rather, the relationship between Indo-Aryan and Sanskrit.

Regarding your 'corruption', a lack of linguistic knowledge will lead to that second misleading conclusion. The shift between two branches of Indo-Iranian, the Iranian on the one hand and the Indo-Aryan on the other, was based on many things; the transition from the sibilant to the aspirate (or from the aspirate to the sibilant, depending on your location east or west of the great river) was one of the indicators. So, to explain by parallel example, the river Haraothi in Afghanistan became the Saraswati in India (the name Saraswati has been used in a large number of places for a river name in India, leading to utter confusion among the revisionists of the Hindu right wing, whose lack of elementary knowledge is only surpassed by the fundamental ignorance of green bhakts).

Sapta Sindhu became, as a result of this linguistically determined shift, Hapta Hindu. That started another string of transitions. There was yet another linguistic shift between Persian, an Indo-European language of the Satam stream, and Classical Greek, yet another Indo-European language, but one from the Centum stream. Another indicative linguistic shift was that the Greeks had no letter to express the aspirated sound; they had no 'h'. That is why, incidentally, many words derived from Greek, Latin or French, are preceded by the indefinite article 'an' rather than by 'a', thus, an hospital, an hotel, an history (from the Greek), but a host, a hotspot, a horse.

As a result of this linguistic shift, not corruption, the Greeks, who were present through the length and breadth of the Achaemenid Empire, pronounced the word Hindu as 'Indu', or, with their word-ending, 'Indika'.

The silliest and the most stupid part of the post, one which left me suspended between mirth and dismay, was the bombastic phrase that nobody knows Bharat, that it was due to the IVC that Sindh's name became famous. For your information and consideration, in the 5th Century BC, nobody knew that something called the IVC had existed. The last known settlements of the Indus Valley Civilisation were around the 14th century BC, some 900 years before; the settlements were already covered in several dozen feet of mud and dust. Alexander's armies passed that way in 326 BC, and the whole battalion of scholars, with their minute observation of ethnography, geography, sociology and military analysis, saw nothing like the IVC.

I really wish that this superficial political and ethno-religious point scoring could be eliminated as being equal to socially transmitted disease.

I have nothing to say to your concluding paragraph. If there can be such egregious mistakes on the simple subject that you mishandled in your opening paragraph, then it will be self-inflicted torture to read a paragraph that deals with the events of partition. I am not a masochist.

@SOUTHie

With a reminder that Indo-Aryan IS NOT Sanskrit; that Sanskrit had a determinate start and an author, a single author; that Sanskrit, an artificial creation, co-existed with Prakrit, a naturally descended group of languages across the length and breadth of north India, that belonged to two branches, the Suraseni, the source of all western Indian contemporary languages, and Magadhi, the source of all eastern Indian contemporary languages; and a suggestion that he should examine the striking resemblance between liturgical and sacerdotal Iranian, what is known as Avestan, and Indo-Aryan, as used in the older cycles of the Rg Veda.
 
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@SOUTHie

With a reminder that Indo-Aryan IS NOT Sanskrit; that Sanskrit had a determinate start and an author, a single author; that Sanskrit, an artificial creation, co-existed with Prakrit, a naturally descended group of languages across the length and breadth of north India, that belonged to two branches, the Suraseni, the source of all western Indian contemporary languages, and Magadhi, the source of all eastern Indian contemporary languages; and a suggestion that he should examine the striking resemblance between liturgical and sacerdotal Iranian, what is known as Avestan, and Indo-Aryan, as used in the older cycles of the Rg Veda.
Always a pleasure to read the corrections, my knowledge on these languages are very limited.

You can exploit anything but remember all this wars and chaos is due to that one single exploitation. If India was sincere in peace, it had accepted the rights of self determination and refrendum for Kashmiris just like Junagadh, Manvadar and Hyderabad Deccan. Junagadh Manvadar ceded their territory to Pakistan then why india occupied and held refrendum? Because of Hindu majority, same with Hyderabad Deccan. So why hypocrisy on Kashmir.
I think this single exploitation has made us rich in rivers we have water security since we are holding one of the largest glacier (Siachin) in the world. Imagine what would happen if Pakistan was in control, we woildn't be even getting an Indus water treaty. Anyway, no more alternate reality.

These areas are fractional regions which are surrounded by India. So, if they join Pakistan, how do you plan to control these regions? It will essentially create a country, within a country. Hence there was no point in keeping them independent.

There was no referendum required. It was offered by India, vocal promise made has no value. And there is no obligation for India to have a referendum. In the instrument of accession there is no mention of any referendums. Moral obligations may be there. But it doesn't matter anymore.
 
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I don't think so. Anyway, I made a humble request. There is nothing binding on you to desist from insulting an entire community. Nothing physically binding, that is.

Presumably you are a good Muslim.



I am afraid that the name is precisely derived as @SOUTHie says; Sapta Sindhu is the seven seas, not the seven rivers. A superficial knowledge of anything leads to errors and misconstructions. Sindhu was a generic term for very large body of water, and has been frequently used as a synonym for 'sea'.

He was wrong in calling it Sanskrit; it was older, and used as such in Indo-Aryan. Presumably such glib talk about Sanskrit and about corruption of Sanskrit might be based on some idea of the differences, or rather, the relationship between Indo-Aryan and Sanskrit.

Regarding your 'corruption', a lack of linguistic knowledge will lead to that second misleading conclusion. The shift between two branches of Indo-Iranian, the Iranian on the one hand and the Indo-Aryan on the other, was based on many things; the transition from the sibilant to the aspirate (or from the aspirate to the sibilant, depending on your location east or west of the great river) was one of the indicators. So, to explain by parallel example, the river Haraothi in Afghanistan became the Saraswati in India (the name Saraswati has been used in a large number of places for a river name in India, leading to utter confusion among the revisionists of the Hindu right wing, whose lack of elementary knowledge is only surpassed by the fundamental ignorance of green bhakts).

Sapta Sindhu became, as a result of this linguistically determined shift, Hapta Hindu. That started another string of transitions. There was yet another linguistic shift between Persian, an Indo-European language of the Satam stream, and Classical Greek, yet another Indo-European language, but one from the Centum stream. Another indicative linguistic shift was that the Greeks had no letter to express the aspirated sound; they had no 'h'. That is why, incidentally, many words derived from Greek, Latin or French, are preceded by the indefinite article 'an' rather than by 'a', thus, an hospital, an hotel, an history (from the Greek), but a host, a hotspot, a horse.

As a result of this linguistic shift, not corruption, the Greeks, who were present through the length and breadth of the Achaemenid Empire, pronounced the word Hindu as 'Indu', or, with their word-ending, 'Indika'.

The silliest and the most stupid part of the post, one which left me suspended between mirth and dismay, was the bombastic phrase that nobody knows Bharat, that it was due to the IVC that Sindh's name became famous. For your information and consideration, in the 5th Century BC, nobody knew that something called the IVC had existed. The last known settlements of the Indus Valley Civilisation were around the 14th century BC, some 900 years before; the settlements were already covered in several dozen feet of mud and dust. Alexander's armies passed that way in 326 BC, and the whole battalion of scholars, with their minute observation of ethnography, geography, sociology and military analysis, saw nothing like the IVC.

I really wish that this superficial political and ethno-religious point scoring could be eliminated as being equal to socially transmitted disease.

I have nothing to say to your concluding paragraph. If there can be such egregious mistakes on the simple subject that you mishandled in your opening paragraph, then it will be self-inflicted torture to read a paragraph that deals with the events of partition. I am not a masochist.

@SOUTHie

With a reminder that Indo-Aryan IS NOT Sanskrit; that Sanskrit had a determinate start and an author, a single author; that Sanskrit, an artificial creation, co-existed with Prakrit, a naturally descended group of languages across the length and breadth of north India, that belonged to two branches, the Suraseni, the source of all western Indian contemporary languages, and Magadhi, the source of all eastern Indian contemporary languages; and a suggestion that he should examine the striking resemblance between liturgical and sacerdotal Iranian, what is known as Avestan, and Indo-Aryan, as used in the older cycles of the Rg Veda.

Sapta Sindhu is referring to 7 rivers, instead of throwing your nonsense go search internet. These 7 rivers become 1 river when they enter Sindh province, known as Indus river today. My knowledge on Sanskrit is weak so for that part I'll give you benificial of doubt. And rest of your entire post is rant, the facts are that due to difficulty of pronunciations Persians, Greeks and English corrupted the name of Sindhu province and India got its new borrowed name. On your last part of the post you called my post silly where I mentioned that nobody knew bharat which I was referring to people in today's era. Tell me how many people know india by bharat? I bet many Indians might not know this word too. They all know India and IVC. Instead of comprehending the post first and then replying you jump in my every post to troll. It seems like your only purpose is to troll. Good luck with it.

Always a pleasure to read the corrections, my knowledge on these languages are very limited.


I think this single exploitation has made us rich in rivers we have water security since we are holding one of the largest glacier (Siachin) in the world. Imagine what would happen if Pakistan was in control, we woildn't be even getting an Indus water treaty. Anyway, no more alternate reality.

These areas are fractional regions which are surrounded by India. So, if they join Pakistan, how do you plan to control these regions? It will essentially create a country, within a country. Hence there was no point in keeping them independent.

There was no referendum required. It was offered by India, vocal promise made has no value. And there is no obligation for India to have a referendum. In the instrument of accession there is no mention of any referendums. Moral obligations may be there. But it doesn't matter anymore.

This single exploitation has made india spend tons of resources on a non-issue. I doubt there would be water issue if there was no Kashmir issue. But anyways Pakistan is in no rush either, you can keep developing and spending resources in IOK today, as long as the Muslim population keep increasing in IOK and India, Pakistan is fine with status quo. It help serves Pakistan interests when Pakistani leaders informed the world that india was

mother of terrorism

World largest hypocrisy

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...est-hypocrisy-and-mother-of-terrorism.519690/

Furthermore, nobody in Pakistan gives a fkk if India join CPEC or not. It will be a bonus if India join but not a neccessity.
 
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Tell me how many people know india by bharat? I bet many Indians might not know this word too.
Lol! Don't comment on things you don't know. Every Indian knows the name India as Bharat. It is also present in the national anthem. You lost the bet. :D Many people might not know what IVC is. Or if you ask them about Indus valley. That's absolute ignorant bunch. But still they would know the name Bharat.

This single exploitation has made india spend tons of resources on a non-issue. I doubt there would be water issue if there was no Kashmir issue. But anyways Pakistan is in no rush either, you can keep developing and spending resources in IOK today, as long as the Muslim population keep increasing in IOK and India, Pakistan is fine with status quo. It help serves Pakistan interests when Pakistani leaders informed the world that india was
I wish you good luck with it. Because you are gonna need that. The image of Pakistan is not good at the moment, so now it looks like yelling under water. India will develop the region to an extend that, people find enough things to do than taking up arms. Look at every person who are throwing stones. They are all Jobless. While the sons and daughters of the seperatists and Hizbul Mujahidheen top leaders are living and working in other parts of India. So much for Kashmiriyat. :lol::lol::lol:

Furthermore, nobody in Pakistan gives a fkk if India join CPEC or not. It will be a bonus if India join but not a neccessity.
Then please ask the Chinese ambassador to shut the fcuk up.
 
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Then please ask the Chinese ambassador to shut the fcuk up.
Pakistanis r waiting for rude awakening. As of now only 10-12 semi trailers enter pakistan via karakoram highway a day. Non of these trucks r going to gwadar. While pakistani politicians r selling dreams and claiming they will collect billions of dollars in toll charges.
 
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Lol! Don't comment on things you don't know. Every Indian knows the name India as Bharat. It is also present in the national anthem. You lost the bet. :D Many people might not know what IVC is. Or if you ask them about Indus valley. That's absolute ignorant bunch. But still they would know the name Bharat.


I wish you good luck with it. Because you are gonna need that. The image of Pakistan is not good at the moment, so now it looks like yelling under water. India will develop the region to an extend that, people find enough things to do than taking up arms. Look at every person who are throwing stones. They are all Jobless. While the sons and daughters of the seperatists and Hizbul Mujahidheen top leaders are living and working in other parts of India. So much for Kashmiriyat. :lol::lol::lol:


Then please ask the Chinese ambassador to shut the fcuk up.

I didn't said majority, I said many and I'm sure many won't know. You advertise you self on a borrowed name gifted by English men who occupied you.

The image of Pakistan will get better by time. Once the name of india did not have good image but Pakistan's name had an image that was reputed, so times changes. Azadi cannot be bought at any price. That is the reason that even after developing so much in IOK, still the people see you as foreign occupiers, because that is the reality.

Pakistanis r waiting for rude awakening. As of now only 10-12 semi trailers enter pakistan via karakoram highway a day. Non of these trucks r going to gwadar. While pakistani politicians r selling dreams and claiming they will collect billions of dollars in toll charges.

What we know is that 3 years ago there was heavy loadshedding, business was regularly moving to countries like Bangladesh, Thailand, Indonesia, India from Pakistan. But now the loadshedding has gone down sigificantly. Many jobs in construction have been created. And China is not a fool to invest in Pakistan if they won't use it. So you can keep dreaming while CPEC trucks will drive over your dreams and Pakistanis will collect free toll income.
 
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I didn't said majority, I said many.
Stop spinning stuffs to your narrative. By that logic, I can say many people in Pakistan do not know they are living in Pakistan. I didn't say majority I said many.
You advertise you self on a borrowed name gifted by English men who occupied you.
You named your country a name that never existed before 20th century. Why the owner and history of name important? It's just a name.
The image of Pakistan will get better by time. Once the name of india did not have good image but Pakistan's name had an image that was reputed, so times changes. Azadi cannot be bought at any price. That is the reason that even after developing so much in IOK, still the people see you as foreign occupiers, because that is the reality.
By the time India will have full consolidation of Kashmir. With zero incident. We are fortunate to have the name India. Today, nobody cares about the origin of the name, who were greeks in xyz BC. India gives a good PR for us, you like it or not. There is an Ocean named after it. There is a subcontinent named after it.

IOK is not as developed as other states in India. It has the lowest HDI in India. Once the issues are settled, people are given more education (which is the lowest in India) and the state of poverty is removed, people will forget the Kashmiriyat crap. The basic necessity is the issue in Kashmir.

Lastly, why do you think more than 60% of the People in J&K voted in the national assembly elections? May I ask how many in your part of Kashmir votes? (Oh, they don't have right to vote in National elections). So save your love for Kashmiri land and water. Ain't getting it.
 
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What we majollll that 3 years ago there was heavy loadshedding, businesas regularly moving to countries like Bangladesh, Thailand, Indonesia, India from Pakistan. But now the loadshedding has gone down sigificantly. Many jobs in construction have been created. And China is not a fool to invest in Pakistan if they won't use it. So you can keep dreaming while CPEC trucks will drive over your dreams and Pakistanis will collect free toll income.

Sorry to say, you guys r waiting for rude shock. A port which hardly recievs 3 ships in a month is not going to yearn you billions. As of now none of chinese trucks r going to gwadar. Only 10-12 semi trailers enter pakistan daily from china that too bring chinese goods to gilgit. Good luck for you guys to collect billions of dollars in toll charges from these chinese trucks
 
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