Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Dillinger]

But @Dillinger why go for this turbofan powered outdated peice of hardware??


These days you have multirole platforms that can do most of the above. The Mig-29Ks can do a lot of what your were saying as well as being incredibly exceptional strike a/ c and dogfighters. No doubt the future a/c the IN will get ie RAFALE-M/ F-35 C/N-FGFA etc will all be just as good and better in many ways.

Bro the Fulcrum can't operate as an AEW/aerial tanker (it has buddy refueling pods but those only go for a certain length, the point is to have organic long range long endurance AEW and ASW capabilities for your CBG itself). This is meant as a replacement for the Kamov (instead of say the V-22) and not as a replacement for the Fulcrums.

Btw the design and platform is far more contemporary than say the E-2 Hawkeye.

There is no connection between a F-35 or Rafale's role and the role of such a prospective platform- they fall under completely different capability and operational spheres.
@Abingdonboy I primarily meant this :-

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bro the Fulcrum can't operate as an AEW/aerial tanker (it has buddy refueling pods but those only go for a certain length, the point is to have organic long range long endurance AEW and ASW capabilities for your CBG itself). This is meant as a replacement for the Kamov (instead of say the V-22) and not as a replacement for the Fulcrums.

Btw the design and platform is far more contemporary than say the E-2 Hawkeye.

There is no connection between a F-35 or Rafale's role and the role of such a prospective platform- they fall under completely different capabilities.

But bro- what does the US have by the way of "organic long range long endurance AEW and ASW capabilities" for their CBGs? They have the MH-60 (pretty much the S-70B proposed for the IN) in the ASW role and have buddy-buddy refuelling for their F-18 SHs (just like the IN has for their Mig-29K/KUB).

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-navy-news-discussions-166.html#ixzz2asS64Qbs

 

[Dillinger]

But bro- what does the US have by the way of "organic long range long endurance AEW and ASW capabilities" for their CBGs? They have the MH-60 (pretty much the S-70B proposed for the IN) in the ASW role and have buddy-buddy refuelling for their F-18 SHs (just like the IN has for their Mig-29K/KUB).

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-navy-news-discussions-166.html#ixzz2asS64Qbs

Bro the US uses the Hawkeye which is carrier capable as the AEW platform. Come on bro how did you miss that.

"The E-2 Hawkeye is a crucial component of all U.S. Navy carrier air wings, and each carrier is equipped with four Hawkeyes (five in some situations), allowing for continuous 24-hour-a-day operation of at least one Hawkeye, and allowing for one or two of them to be undergoing maintenance in the aircraft carrier's hangar deck at all times. Until 2005 the US Navy Hawkeye’s were organised into East and West coast wings, supporting the respective fleets. However, the East coast wing was disestablished and all aircraft are now organised into a single wing based at Point Mugu, California. Six E-2C Hawkeye aircraft were deployed by the US Naval Reserve for drug interdiction and homeland security operations until March 9th, 2013, when the sole Reserve squadron, VAW-77 'Nightwolves', was decommissioned and its six aircraft sent to other E-2C squadrons."

That's AEW cover for the BARCAP 24/7. We can't do that with Kamovs and V-22s, we might not be able to do that in the medium term at all BUT you need time on station.

FOR ASW the CBG used to use the very AC I was talking of, the S-3 Viking.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sorry @Dillinger bro its 5.45 am here and I'm still yet to sleep!!


But for the reasons you have stated, I have maintains that purely in performance terms the E-2D AWACS is the way to go for the IAC-2 and beyond.

 

[Dillinger]

Sorry @Dillinger bro its 5.45 am here and I'm still yet to sleep!!


But for the reasons you have stated, I have maintains that purely in performance terms the E-2D AWACS is the way to go for the IAC-2 and beyond.

Its all cool man. Haven't slept the night off here either- dozing off intermittently here too. Goodnight.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its all cool man. Haven't slept the night off here either- dozing off intermittently here too. Goodnight.

You're still clearly operating at a higher plain than me!!


Goodnight man.

 

[Gessler]

We don't know about PAKFA and J-20. Can't rank them until they are tested and verified.

Atleast their testing program is progressing smoothly, unlike F-35, where a new problem is being faced every day.

These planes do not even have its parts finalized. By the time these planes are ready, then F-35 would have block 2 or block 3 ready. Next.

Block 1 of a superior design is better than Block 2,3 of an inferior design.

Anyway, just because a plane came out earlier than the other doesn't make it superior. MiG-21 came out a lot earlier than F-35, does that mean MiG-21 is superior?

BTW, read this: -

Navy carrier jets (F-35) can't land in hot weather

^^JSF is experiencing problems while landing on carrier trials. In and around India, the weather is usually hot, so F-35 may not work here.

Lockheed promises tailhook fix to Navy's F-35C

^^Secondly, F-35C's tailhook design was found faulty, Lockheed needs to fix this otherwise even STOL variant will not work properly, and may lead to an accident.

 

[faithfulguy]

Atleast their testing program is progressing smoothly, unlike F-35, where a new problem is being faced every day.



Block 1 of a superior design is better than Block 2,3 of an inferior design.

Anyway, just because a plane came out earlier than the other doesn't make it superior. MiG-21 came out a lot earlier than F-35, does that mean MiG-21 is superior?

BTW, read this: -

Navy carrier jets (F-35) can't land in hot weather

^^JSF is experiencing problems while landing on carrier trials. In and around India, the weather is usually hot, so F-35 may not work here.

Secondly, F-35C's tailhook design was found faulty, Lockheed needs to fix this otherwise even STOL variant will not work properly, and may lead to an accident.

That is just one variation of F-35 and its vertical landing that it has trouble with. The 3 variations of F-35 are three distinct planes. So it will take time to iron things out.

the F-35 A should be ready soon. Sooner than the Indian texas fighter that was in development hell for multiple decades.

 

[Gessler]

That is just one variation of F-35 and its vertical landing that it has trouble with. The 3 variations of F-35 are three distinct planes. So it will take time to iron things out.

the F-35 A should be ready soon. Sooner than the Indian texas fighter that was in development hell for multiple decades.

If F-35A is ready, it can go to hell because we don't need that one. What we may possibly need are F-35B/C.

And they are full of problems, and exorbitantly costly.

Anyway, why should we buy F-35 when the manufacturer nation's military itself says that it doesn't
stand a chance in real combat?

Pentagon: F-35 won't have a chance in real combat

 

[faithfulguy]

If F-35A is ready, it can go to hell because we don't need that one. What we may possibly need are F-35B/C.

And they are full of problems, and exorbitantly costly.

Anyway, why should we buy F-35 when the manufacturer nation's military itself says that it doesn't
stand a chance in real combat?

Pentagon: F-35 won't have a chance in real combat

The military is just trying to find excuse to knock down the price. They want more planes for less money. If they talk up the plane, the plane would be more expensive. So this is just a bargaining technique. Even F-18, F-15 and F-22 encountered problems and now, they are doing just fine.

 

[Gessler]

The military is just trying to find excuse to knock down the price. They want more planes for less money. If they talk up the plane, the plane would be more expensive. So this is just a bargaining technique. Even F-18, F-15 and F-22 encountered problems and now, they are doing just fine.

Lol, F-22 is doing fine?

There were serious issues with the OBOGS and other systems, almost 8 years after the plane was declared
as being "operational" -

More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue

So what do you know, a couple of years after F35 is declared operational, it will have a whole new set of
problems, which should have been sorted out in the testing stage itself! Which altogether means that they
(the Lockheed guys) are not testing planes the way they should be tested & verified.

Look at my above links, they got the location of the tailhook wrong. I don't know if they do not have any
good simulation software or anything.

IN will end up buying either N-FGFA or Rafale-M.

F-35 is simply out of the question.

 

[faithfulguy]

Lol, F-22 is doing fine?

There were serious issues with the OBOGS and other systems, almost 8 years after the plane was declared
as being "operational" -

More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue

So what do you know, a couple of years after F35 is declared operational, it will have a whole new set of
problems, which should have been sorted out in the testing stage itself! Which altogether means that they
(the Lockheed guys) are not testing planes the way they should be tested & verified.

Look at my above links, they got the location of the tailhook wrong. I don't know if they do not have any
good simulation software or anything.

IN will end up buying either N-FGFA or Rafale-M.

F-35 is simply out of the question.

India can wait for these plane to develop. By the time these planes are ready, F-35 would be in service for 10 years. And remember, LM is trying to develop 3 different planes at the same time. So of course, it will encounter some issues here and there. But do not under estimate American fighter weapons development. We are better than the rest of the world combine.

 

[Gessler]

India can wait for these plane to develop. By the time these planes are ready, F-35 would be in service for 10 years. And remember, LM is trying to develop 3 different planes at the same time. So of course, it will encounter some issues here and there.

Inda's needs do not warrant an F-35 order. F-35 cannot survive in air combat with anything better than
a Su-35S.

We are better than the rest of the world combine.

Yeah, you are so advanced that you don't know where a tailhook should be placed on a plane.

 

[Penguin]

How effective is this?? @Abingdonboy @sancho @Capt.Popeye @Sergi

How effective is WHAT?

 

[kaykay]

How effective is WHAT?

I guess the thread has been merged here. Anyway I was asking about Zif-121 laucher!! How effective is this compare to other such systems?