Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Abingdonboy]

But I do believe @sancho that the IMRH HAS to be a next-gen helo with a foreign partner otherwise it is an utter waste of time for HAL to even go down this route.

 

[Hulk]

Yeah I've checked some of these out. AFAIK such weapons should be part of the Rafale and Super MKI weapon's packages and maybe even the M2k's in the future.

Per my knowledge M2K upgrade and Rafale has lot of weapons in common. IAF planned both together in some sense.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Per my knowledge M2K upgrade and Rafale has lot of weapons in common. IAF planned both together in some sense.

There will be a high degree of commonality but I don't know how much one deal influenced the other as the IAF and MoD would both claim they were 100% independent of one another.

 

[sancho]

The growth plan for the hornet is impressive, internal IRST, internal missile approach warning system, 3000 pounds of aviation fuel in CFTs with zero net gain in drag, LO weapons pod. Its impressive to say the least.

It's a good upgrade, but nothing special, since most capabilities are standard in modern 4th gen fighters. Only the CFTs and weapon pod makes a read difference, but the fact that IR missiles needs to be carried externally is a downer as well. The crucial point however is, that we would have to fund most of the upgrades, since they are options for foreign countries only and things that USN actually is not that interested in, although they might change that wrt CFTs now.

Don't laugh, but I play around with my bad paint skills, just to get an idea how a Rafale with a weapon pod could look like and it it could carry all weapons internally:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130706/ijujcykn.jpg


Not sure if the size ratio is correct, but the idea is to carry AASM 125 or 250 on the upper hardpoints, while the lower would carry MICA missiles, which will be retracted when the pod opens.
I heared from unofficial sources that Dassault is already testing such weapon pods too, but not sure what the capacity might be. The most important problem for Rafale in such a config will be fuel, since the CFTs only can carry 2300l, which is enough for A2A operations, but for strikes at long range will be way too less.[/QUOTE]

@sancho- YOU think this but do the right people ie the MoD/IAF brass/HAL? Therein lies the crux of the issue.

Of course not (see Ch 47 selection ), but I am currently very in intrigued about NG helicopters and imo that is the fastes way to get it and get an edge in this field. Any other similar project is only in early development stage and the NH90 as a base is already available too.

But I do believe @sancho that the IMRH HAS to be a next-gen helo with a foreign partner otherwise it is an utter waste of time for HAL to even go down this route.

No, it will be a new helicopter for HAL in a new class, but according to all presentations so far, it's just a normal 10t class helicopter, which btw will never be reality anytime soon, when IN goes for NH90 / S70 in high numbers and IAF already has the order books filled with Mi 17s.

Per my knowledge M2K upgrade and Rafale has lot of weapons in common. IAF planned both together in some sense.

Basically Rafale can use all weapons the M2K used so far as well, be it MICA, Paveway LGBs, Scalp or Exocet. But we have added SPICE 2000 to the M2K now, which so far was not integrated to Rafale, just like SPICE 250 isn't as it is new. So it needs to be seen if we will pay extra to add them into Rafale too.

Btw, my personal favourite Rafale config would include Litening G4, Skyshield jammers, SPICE 250 quadpacks and SPIKE NLOS on triple launchers. Combined with the French weaponary an exteeeeeeeemly deadly package!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

I

Basically Rafale can use all weapons the M2K used so far as well, be it MICA, Paveway LGBs, Scalp or Exocet. But we have added SPICE 2000 to the M2K now, which so far was not integrated to Rafale, just like SPICE 250 isn't as it is new. So it needs to be seen if we will pay extra to add them into Rafale too.

Is this true? I wasn't aware this had been confirmed and can't find any sources for this news.

 

[sancho]

Is this true? I wasn't aware this had been confirmed and can't find any sources for this news.

Dr. V.K. Saraswat speaking at the Aero India 2013 Airshow Seminar

...Mirage beeing fitted with SPICE 2000...which is a precision guided submunition for the IAF and it will start supplying for the future integration...

(Minute: 4:21)

 

[Gessler]

I've looked up Cochin Shipyard satellite view...seems to be some progress
on IAC-1 aircraft carrier...





The front section seems to be nearing completion.

 

[Gessler]

Found this on another forum...



It seems the size of IAC-1's hull(without the ramp and some side assemblies) is about the same
as INS Viraat's entire size.

Although an accurate measurement can only be made after IAC-1 is doing sea trials, where it
may turn out to be a lot bigger because of the additional assemblies that it currently
does not have.

 

[Abingdonboy]

A decent report on the MIG-29K's formal commissioning into the IN:

Pretty well researched reporting without any of the tired sayings and sensationalism.

 

[sancho]

A decent report on the MIG-29K's formal commissioning into the IN:

Pretty well researched reporting without any of the tired sayings and sensationalism.

True, surprising but nice! A few days ago I saw a report of Vishnu Som on NDTV, about the air operations during the Uttarakhand disaster, also a good reporter, but our media has too less of them.

 

[Abingdonboy]

True, surprising but nice! A few days ago I saw a report of Vishnu Som on NDTV, about the air operations during the Uttarakhand disaster, also a good reporter, but our media has too less of them.

Very true, I too hold Vishnu Som in very high regard, usually his reports are very fair, balanced, sound and full of technical jargon! He really knows what he is reporting on unlike 99.99% of Indian journos.

As you say, sadly, there aren't enough good journos in India.

+ I especially like the point at the end that rubbished all that BS that came out when the MIG-29Ks first arrived in INdia back in 2010 about "planes with no carrier to fly from" and the like. The fact is the birds had to come first and as they were brand new inductions they would have had to go through the mandatory validation and trail testing by the IN anyways which is a huge amount of work. As such the birds are now ready and certified and the pilots trained and happy in their birds, all that remains is for some deck validation trials and the IN is away!

 

[Dillinger]

@Abingdonboy @sancho The following image illustrates the various sensors present on the Mig-35, is it accurate? IF so what is the scope for integration of such sensors on the Mig-29K as part of a future growth plan? Furthermore could you point out to the RWR, MAWS and SPJs on board the Mig-29K? Are the "SOAR" system (behind the cockpit on the fuselage spine and behind the engine intakes) and the RWR and "SOLO" (both present on the Mig-35's wingtips) system present on the Mig-29K? Any specs on the SOAR? I believe that con-formal fuel tanks and omni-directional MAWS should be made part of any MLU.

 

[sancho]

@Abingdonboy @sancho The following image illustrates the various sensors present on the Mig-35, is it accurate? IF so what is the scope for integration of such sensors on the Mig-29K as part of a future growth plan? Furthermore could you point out to the RWR, MAWS and SPJs on board the Mig-29K? Are the "SOAR" system (behind the cockpit on the fuselage spine and behind the engine intakes) and the RWR and "SOLO" (both present on the Mig-35's wingtips) system present on the Mig-29K? Any specs on the SOAR? I believe that con-formal fuel tanks and omni-directional MAWS should be made part of any MLU.

Most of the EW sensors on our Migs are Indian or western and not Russian, so that won't be an issue for future upgrades. The Russian part would normally be Russian IRST, AESA radar and engine upgrades, although I hope for indigenous AESA to replace Zhuk ME, possibly even Kaveri engine by then. CFTs won't be part of the Mig 29K, the Mig 35 was about to get bigger wings that could hold more fuel and weapons, there is not much more you can do with such an old design.

 

[Dillinger]

Most of the EW sensors on our Migs are Indian or western and not Russian, so that won't be an issue for future upgrades. The Russian part would normally be Russian IRST, AESA radar and engine upgrades, although I hope for indigenous AESA to replace Zhuk ME, possibly even Kaveri engine by then. CFTs won't be part of the Mig 29K, the Mig 35 was about to get bigger wings that could hold more fuel and weapons, there is not much more you can do with such an old design.

There seems to be plenty of space for CFTs, irrespective of the fact that the EW sensors on the Fulcrum-K re western/Israeli what I wanted to know about was the existence/absence/future plans regarding omni-directional MAWS being present on the aircraft.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

There seems to be plenty of space for CFTs, irrespective of the fact that the EW sensors on the Fulcrum-K re western/Israeli what I wanted to know about was the existence/absence/future plans regarding omni-directional MAWS being present on the aircraft.

Technically speaking; the addition of most of the sensors (if not all) that you speak of is feasible. Whether the plans for such upgradation have been formulated is not in the public domain.