Indian Helicopter Discussion

[OrionHunter]

Better not say that to the face of an apache/mi-17/LCH pilot.

It is all combat, whether the machine is fast or slow, they fight.

9 g on a Sukhoi thrills (but sucks big time) during a dogfight! Can women be able to bear that stress? A max of 3-4 g on choppers is poodle play. Not thrilling at all! Firing off a Hellfire from a stationary platform such as the Apache is no big deal. But firing an AIM from a Sukhoi at supersonic speed and then peeling off sharply at 7-8 g is a different ball game altogether!

And that's for the league of extraordinary gentlemen - fighter pilots! Not for housewives and moms-to- be!

(Thank God no women out here or I would have been called a damn male chauvinist pig! )

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Why is it the case that women no matter what field they enter get called the best just to encourage others?

No they are not the best..i am sorry to say.Its a kind of cheap stunt by the media.It only means they have met the required standard..they are not breaking world records as yet.

I know which squadron the best pilots belong to and its doesnt consist of women.

I am happy for their achievement and more should follow but people should do some research before caling them the best.

Regarding the issue of being a fighter pilot the thing is that pilot training is not cheap.It costs crores of rupees.So when the govt invests so much it would like to get some kind of assurance that the female pilot would get commited to her profession and not become pregnant coz lets face it the flying life of a pilot is not too long and the govt woud like to get back what it has invested...many of you wont know but a pilot if doesnt do flying for 6 months has to be type rated again and its expensive.

Secondy,in a war there is "equal treatment"...So they shoud be more than wiling to be on their own once they get caught...We dont want to see the drama we saw in 99 hijacking in Delhi by the relatives of the hijacked people...In a war if a female pilot gets shot down and her reatives start protesting like that then it would not be good.

Lastly all these people who want gender equality for the sake of it can go look for other fields..Its not really practical in some fields coz doing a desk job is very different to being in the forces.

 

[mfreak]

Why is it the case that women no matter what field they enter get called the best just to encourage others?

No they are not the best..i am sorry to say.Its a kind of cheap stunt by the media.It only means they have met the required standard..they are not breaking world records as yet.

I know which squadron the best pilots belong to and its doesnt consist of women.

I am happy for their achievement and more should follow but people should do some research before caling them the best.

Regarding the issue of being a fighter pilot the thing is that pilot training is not cheap.It costs crores of rupees.So when the govt invests so much it would like to get some kind of assurance that the female pilot would get commited to her profession and not become pregnant coz lets face it the flying life of a pilot is not too long and the govt woud like to get back what it has invested...many of you wont know but a pilot if doesnt do flying for 6 months has to be type rated again and its expensive.

Secondy,in a war there is "equal treatment"...So they shoud be more than wiling to be on their own once they get caught...We dont want to see the drama we saw in 99 hijacking in Delhi by the relatives of the hijacked people...In a war if a female pilot gets shot down and her reatives start protesting like that then it would not be good.

Lastly all these people who want gender equality for the sake of it can go look for other fields..Its not really practical in some fields coz doing a desk job is very different to being in the forces.

That post is wrong in like 18 different ways.

1. No one said that female pilots ARE THE BEST in the world. That said, female pilots CAN BE the best.

2. You dont find any squadron with spectacular female pilots today, because they are not employed in any significant role

3. Women get pregnant, Its "that time of the month", Pilot training is not cheap, Women dont tend to be committed etc are basically idiotic reasons. Women can be just as committed, and can serve just as well as a man can. Remember that no one serves for their entire lives. That never happens. People serve for a while and then retire. Similarly, its enough if the woman signing up for the armed forces in whatever branch, serves till the time she signed up for. This is not about investments. People do not get into the Army because they are so damn nationalistic that they wanna slaughter their enemies. Or they dont get recruited because the Army expects them to stay for a lifetime. They do so as a career option. So there is nothing wrong if a woman gets into the air force, trains for a couple of years, serves for a couple of years more and then takes retirement. Its her choice. The "costs" associated, are part of the game. Thats how it works.

Also there is aboslutely no proof that women wont serve long. There might be women who will be ready to serve in the armed forces, in combat roles for a long time. We have to get off this conservative mindset that women wont, or cant. We cant justify this pointing to "practicality"

4. Who said there wont be drama if a male soldier gets caught? If there is no drama, then there is something seriously wrong with the country, and we need some mens rights activism as well. We NEED our govt to take it very seriously when an Indian citizen suffers, especially suffers abroad, either as a POW or otherwise.

So no, if we keep an open mind, advocate equality and get off this attitude that women are physically weak, women cant do as much as men can especially in combat roles are all theories that have been disproved time and again. Look at the women in the US Army serving in Iraq. Thats a fine example.

 

[Tshering22]

But what exactly do we fly them in?

Only the Mirages, MiG-29s and Jaguars are functioning out of our Soviet-era kit. The MKIs are already stretched to limits. Tejas will join us in January and Rafales will start coming only 2 years later with FGFA to come only 2020 onwards.

Right now as such IAF has more pilots than planes situation. It is best to keep this initiative till 2015 when there are actually modern jets present to motivate women to fly them.

 

[mfreak]

I was just saying generally. Not as per the current situation. Anyway, I guess you have to train them now, for them to be ready 3 or 4 years later.

 

[janon]

But what exactly do we fly them in?

Only the Mirages, MiG-29s and Jaguars are functioning out of our Soviet-era kit. The MKIs are already stretched to limits. Tejas will join us in January and Rafales will start coming only 2 years later with FGFA to come only 2020 onwards.

Right now as such IAF has more pilots than planes situation. It is best to keep this initiative till 2015 when there are actually modern jets present to motivate women to fly them.

The IAF is facing a shortage of pilots, and thats a fact. The army is facing a shortage of mid ranking officers, and thats a fact.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

That post is wrong in like 18 different ways.

1. No one said that female pilots ARE THE BEST in the world. That said, female pilots CAN BE the best.

2. You dont find any squadron with spectacular female pilots today, because they are not employed in any significant role

3. Women get pregnant, Its "that time of the month", Pilot training is not cheap, Women dont tend to be committed etc are basically idiotic reasons. Women can be just as committed, and can serve just as well as a man can. Remember that no one serves for their entire lives. That never happens. People serve for a while and then retire. Similarly, its enough if the woman signing up for the armed forces in whatever branch, serves till the time she signed up for. This is not about investments. People do not get into the Army because they are so damn nationalistic that they wanna slaughter their enemies. Or they dont get recruited because the Army expects them to stay for a lifetime. They do so as a career option. So there is nothing wrong if a woman gets into the air force, trains for a couple of years, serves for a couple of years more and then takes retirement. Its her choice. The "costs" associated, are part of the game. Thats how it works.

Also there is aboslutely no proof that women wont serve long. There might be women who will be ready to serve in the armed forces, in combat roles for a long time. We have to get off this conservative mindset that women wont, or cant. We cant justify this pointing to "practicality"

4. Who said there wont be drama if a male soldier gets caught? If there is no drama, then there is something seriously wrong with the country, and we need some mens rights activism as well. We NEED our govt to take it very seriously when an Indian citizen suffers, especially suffers abroad, either as a POW or otherwise.

So no, if we keep an open mind, advocate equality and get off this attitude that women are physically weak, women cant do as much as men can especially in combat roles are all theories that have been disproved time and again. Look at the women in the US Army serving in Iraq. Thats a fine example.

Lets not get emotional here coz this is the last place to be emotional.

My post may be wrong in 18 ways but i cant find one line to which i can agree in your post.

Women heicopter pilots are present in good numbers and now they have acess to doube engine helicopters too hence we will see the day one of them makes it to the Sarang team which is a helicopter aerobatics team for your information and hence has the best pilots from the AF.

The male pilots shot down in 99 didnt do any ho-haa..but i can see that a woman POW would attract a lot of protests.

And lastly for your information it costs 7 crore to train 1 fighter pilot..do your maths and see what it would cost if a Woman takes 1.5 yr leave for child birth.

 

[mfreak]

Lets not get emotional here coz this is the last place to be emotional.

My post may be wrong in 18 ways but i cant find one line to which i can agree in your post.

Women heicopter pilots are present in good numbers and now they have acess to doube engine helicopters too hence we will see the day one of them makes it to the Sarang team which is a helicopter aerobatics team for your information and hence has the best pilots from the AF.

The male pilots shot down in 99 didnt do any ho-haa..but i can see that a woman POW would attract a lot of protests.

And lastly for your information it costs 7 crore to train 1 fighter pilot..do your maths and see what it would cost if a Woman takes 1.5 yr leave for child birth.

Where is the emotion? I am simply saying that we need a change to our conservative outlook, and the gender roles that exist in our society.

Helicopter this, Helicopter that. I dont care. I am talking about women serving in ANY branch of the Army, IF they qualify. So if a woman proves to be physically and mentally fit, she can even serve in the Spec ops teams, if she is motivated enough and qualifies for it.

If a female pilot gets shot down and is killed in combat, we will respect her as much as we respect the men that die for our country. There wont be any protests. If its a POW, then again there wont be any protests. They KNOW that can happen, so they made a conscious choice, which has to be respected.

Lastly, when a woman chooses to have a child is left to her. If a female officer is pregnant and wants to take a leave of absence that is fine, its not like we are in a perpetual state of war. But then again, who says that a female officer will choose to have a child during her service? What if their commitments make them delay having kids? Who says a male officer wont take a leave of absence for a long time? You cant just go on assumptions here. There are lots of options.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Where is the emotion? I am simply saying that we need a change to our conservative outlook, and the gender roles that exist in our society.

Helicopter this, Helicopter that. I dont care. I am talking about women serving in ANY branch of the Army, IF they qualify. So if a woman proves to be physically and mentally fit, she can even serve in the Spec ops teams, if she is motivated enough and qualifies for it.

If a female pilot gets shot down and is killed in combat, we will respect her as much as we respect the men that die for our country. There wont be any protests. If its a POW, then again there wont be any protests. They KNOW that can happen, so they made a conscious choice, which has to be respected.

Lastly, when a woman chooses to have a child is left to her. If a female officer is pregnant and wants to take a leave of absence that is fine, its not like we are in a perpetual state of war. But then again, who says that a female officer will choose to have a child during her service? What if their commitments make them delay having kids? Who says a male officer wont take a leave of absence for a long time? You cant just go on assumptions here. There are lots of options.

Being a SF operator is not a joke..even you cant make it.

If your knowledge about aviation is zero and you are not willing to listen...then i rather not debate with you.

Maybe people like you can come forward and pay for the training again which is 7 crores when a woman returns after child birth 1.5-2 yrs later.

For you information in US Army 4 out of 10 women get raped..and that is USA whose society is 100 times more advanced than ours...it would be better you spend time studying about the matter online rather than blindly supporting your cause.

Sexual assault in military 'jaw-dropping,' lawmaker says - CNN

 

[JohnyD]

wondering if women's menstrual cycle would have any impact on her performance or concentration especially when engaged in air to air dogfight ...

 

[mfreak]

Being a SF operator is not a joke..even you cant make it.

I definitely cant make it. Am sure a lot of others cant. But those who CAN should be able to, irrespective of gender.

If your knwledge about aviation is zero and you are not willing to listen...then i rather not debate with you.

Maybe people like you can come forward and pay for the training again which is 7 crores when a woman return after child birth 1.5-2 yrs later.

1st off, none of the pilots serve all their lives. Everyone serves and then retires. Its the same thing with women. As for women, you are assuming that who ever serves will go ahead and have a child inbetween. What if they dont? What if they sign up for 5 years, complete their service and then have kids? So this argument that women will have kids inbetween is baseless. EVEN if some do have kids, its alright. Amidst all the corruption of billions and trillions of dollars a few crores here and there is fine. If that is the price we have to pay for equality.

For you information in US Army 4 out of 10 women get raped..and that is USA whose society is 100 times more advanced than ours...it would be better you spend time studying about the matter online rather than blindly supporting your cause.

Thats a non-sequitur. That doesnt mean women in the Indian army will be raped. That is downright insulting the forces. What do you mean society is more "advanced"? Having more money does not equal civility. That said, yes there are chances women might get raped, but we cant use THIS as an excuse to not allow women in combat. What we should do, is impart good culture in our forces, so they are seen as equals. Not as rape material.

Am not saying there are no concerns. There are. But a lot of them are cultural/sexist. Those need to change. Like taking orders from a woman etc., I know RIGHT NOW its a big ask from the Indian Army, but we should work toward that.

wondering if women's menstrual cycle would have any impact on her performance or concentration especially when engaged in air to air dogfight ...

They can manage I guess.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I definitely cant make it. Am sure a lot of others cant. But those who CAN should be able to, irrespective of gender.

I havent met a woman till now who can run 70 kms a day with 20 kgs of weight,remain hungry for days and get tortured.

And i am sure you will think they can become snipers too without knowing the fact that a sniper has to stay in the same position for days..May i ask what does a female do if she has her menstural cycle then?

Obviously you would say they should be inducted because Army is a joke right..anyone can do anything!!

1st off, none of the pilots serve all their lives. Everyone serves and then retires. Its the same thing with women. As for women, you are assuming that who ever serves will go ahead and have a child inbetween. What if they dont? What if they sign up for 5 years, complete their service and then have kids? So this argument that women will have kids inbetween is baseless. EVEN if some do have kids, its alright. Amidst all the corruption of billions and trillions of dollars a few crores here and there is fine. If that is the price we have to pay for equality.

I really dont know why am i replying to a person who has no knowledge whatsoever about the forces and still wants to prove his point.

Saaarjiii...In the Air force the minimum time for service is 14 years for flying branch so how the hell does 5 years come in?...Now assuming they join in their early 20s then they have to serve till mid 30s or late 30s...so you dont want them to have a child when they are the healthiest??

Thats a non-sequitur. That doesnt mean women in the Indian army will be raped. That is downright insulting the forces. What do you mean society is more "advanced"? Having more money does not equal civility. That said, yes there are chances women might get raped, but we cant use THIS as an excuse to not allow women in combat. What we should do, is impart good culture in our forces, so they are seen as equals. Not as rape material.

Am not saying there are no concerns. There are. But a lot of them are cultural/sexist. Those need to change. Like taking orders from a woman etc., I know RIGHT NOW its a big ask from the Indian Army, but we should work toward that.

The Indian soldiers still gets recruited from villages and is not that open minded and i dont think they will be open to having a Woman officer lead them in a remotely located area.USA has a very open society..they dont need woman to arrest a woman like in India.

The thing is either you can get my points or you can continue to think what you want to.Comming from the civil life most civilians dont understand what hardships are involved and believe everything is like a MNC company.For eg a 2 year leave of a woman fighter pilot would cost the govt...what about if she is ill on the wrong time ie in a war(menstural cycle)...what if she is a sniper and gets ill??...she will be remotely located and would have to be cut off from her family for months.

Its not easy..try to get it.If you still cant then best of luck..i have nothing left to share.

 

[mfreak]

I havent met a woman till now who can run 70 kms a day with 20 kgs of weight,remain hungry for days and get tortured.

And i am sure you will think they can become snipers too without knowing the fact that a sniper has to stay in the same position for days..May i ask what does a female do if she has her menstural cycle then?

Obviously you would say they should be inducted because Army is a joke right..anyone can do anything!!

Dude, just because you havent met a woman, does not mean there isnt a woman out there who cant do it.

I said those who qualify. Again there are practical examples in real life. So you are going by your own theories and notions. So the best army in the world, the US Army inducting female snipers must be totally dumb. And yes anyone can do anything.

I really dont know why am i replying to a person who has no knowledge whatsoever about the forces and still wants to prove his point.

Saaarjiii...In the Air force the minimum time for service is 14 years for flying branch so how the hell does 5 years come in?...Now assuming they join in their early 20s then they have to serve till mid 30s or late 30s...so you dont want them to have a child when they are the healthiest??

Yeah so they can have their kids and come back to serve. So what about women in other airforces? They dont have kids?
Again how do other airforces do it that we cant?

The Indian soldiers still gets recruited from villages and is not that open minded and i dont think they will be open to having a Woman officer lead them in a remotely located area.

You are right about this. However, we need to train them to accept women as equals.

Yes am a civilian. Are you an airforce pilot? Or in the army atleast?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Dude, just because you havent met a woman, does not mean there isnt a woman out there who cant do it.

I said those who qualify. Again there are practical examples in real life. So you are going by your own theories and notions. So the best army in the world, the US Army inducting female snipers must be totally dumb. And yes anyone can do anything.



Yeah so they can have their kids and come back to serve. So what about women in other airforces? They dont have kids?
Again how do other airforces do it that we cant?



You are right about this. However, we need to train them to accept women as equals.

Yes am a civilian. Are you an airforce pilot? Or in the army atleast?

Good for you

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Dude, just because you havent met a woman, does not mean there isnt a woman out there who cant do it.

I said those who qualify. Again there are practical examples in real life. So you are going by your own theories and notions. So the best army in the world, the US Army inducting female snipers must be totally dumb. And yes anyone can do anything.



Yeah so they can have their kids and come back to serve. So what about women in other airforces? They dont have kids?
Again how do other airforces do it that we cant?



You are right about this. However, we need to train them to accept women as equals.

Yes am a civilian. Are you an airforce pilot? Or in the army atleast?

Good for you