some news from defexpo
We Believe That We Have a Lot to Offer When We See The Level of Investment and Priorities of Indian MoD’
-Executive vice president, international affairs, Nexter Systems, Mike Duckworth
Executive vice president, international affairs, Nexter Systems, Mike Duckworth
________________________________________________ What is Nexter Systems’ vision for the Indian market in the coming years?
Nexter is a primary supplier to the French forces, notably for land systems. We cover a wide range of potential technologies ranging from artillery, armoured vehicles, weapon systems and ammunition. As a result, we believe that we have a lot to offer when we see the level of investment and priorities of the Indian ministry of defence (MoD). We feel that we can play a role in the defence opportunities that have great interest to us. Our approach is modest and respectful and I know that the company has worked very much with a perspective of Transfer of Technology (ToT). We believe that this is a model we can work with. Our business approach has changed significantly, where we are a thin layer system integrator and rely greatly on the competence and professionalism of the supply chain. We can transfer this model to India very easily.
What will be the specific areas of focus for Nexter in India?
The recent business successes we have had in India are modest but successes nonetheless. With regards the turret programme for Dhruv helicopter, for which we made the first deliveries in 2011, we were delighted to work with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). In the short term, we have an interest and stake in this sort of traditional programmes. In the medium term, we see opportunity in the artillery programme. If there is one thing Nexter is renowned for, it is competence in artillery in terms of the weapons and ammunition. We see the emphasis and priority that has been placed on the modernisation of the artillery capability in India and hence there is an opportunity. This was also why we announced our relationship with L&T pertaining to the Towed Gun Systems (TGS), Mounted Gun System (MGS) and Mk-46 130mm gun upgrade. In the long term, we look at some of the other aspects of our business and it is no accident that we brought along our 40mm Cased Telescoped Armament System ‘40 CTAS’ which we call the T-40. We are in the process of developing it for the French Army for the future reconnaissance programmes and it has also been selected by the UK MoD for their two principal armoured combat vehicle programmes. Looking at the Indian Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) programme, we feel that we can make a contribution there.
How has the partnership with L&T progressed?
Our relationship with L&T has been developing over the last two years. We signed an agreement with L&T for the MGS following the Request for Information (RFI) a couple of years ago. When the Request for Proposal (RFP) for the TGS came out in the beginning of last year, we responded again with L&T. TGS system has been categorised as a ‘Buy and Make’, with the first 400 systems being based on the standard product. I would like to stress, however, that we have already started on a high level of indigenisation on the product for the requirement for the first 400 systems. So everything associated on the base chassis of the Trajan is being done by L&T. While we remain responsible for the technical performance, L&T’s contribution is very important for the first 400. After that, of course, the programme will progress into full production of the remaining 1,400 systems. It is nice to have had the formal RFP and it has given us a very real opportunity to really work with L&T. We have engineering teams co-located here in India and in France. The opportunity for the trials and evaluation are planned to take place at the end of this year and we are waiting for a formal confirmation from the Indian MoD on this.
‘If We are Chosen to Offer any of our Products, We Are Ready to Build it Locally in India’
-Chief Executive Officer, Renault Trucks, Gérard Amiel
Chief Executive Officer, Renault Trucks, Gérard Amiel
______________________________________________________ How do you view the Indian market for Renault trucks?
We are originally a French defence company. We specialise in vehicle production and our main customer is the French Army. We are increasing our presence outside France. Currently, we have our presence in South America, Africa, Middle East and Asia and our target is to increase our size of the exports. We have already sold some vehicles in countries like Indonesia, and Malaysia. As far as the Indian market is concerned, recently we have sold some parts of truck named Sherpa Lite. We aim to increase the size and the number of different customers in France and also in India.
Have you offered these trucks to any of the Indian armed forces?
We will be part of their tenders soon. Currently, we are adapting the vehicles to meet the specific qualities that the customer demands. We will be able to customise the trucks and be closer to the qualitative requirements of the Indian Army.
What variants of your trucks are you offering to the Indian Army?
We have offered different variants of Sherpa Lite to the Indian Army. This 4x4 tactical and light armoured vehicle provides best mobility to the troops. With the gross vehicle weight close to 10 ton, we have provided different options ranging from four-seat and 1.5 ton payload version to a two plus 10 seats with a higher payload.
How would you like to position yourself in the Indian market?
Our aim is to adapt to the different conditions and increase our size considerably. Once we do that, we will look at the possibility of building them locally through transfer of technology. We are working towards that goal. These are still early days and the Indian market is vast. We are just about beginning to learn about the requirements here. I think this is going to be a nice adventure. We were here during DefExpo 2010, we are here now and we will come back later as well.
Given that there are established Indian and foreign manufacturers in this sector already, how do you see the competition for Renault trucks?
I think the competition is the same all around the world. We have several competitors in every country, from the US to Europe. It will be the same in the Indian market. However, if we have a product which can be customised to meet the specific needs of the customer, it will give us an edge. As I said previously, we are not a local manufacturer at this point of time but if we are chosen to offer any of our products, we are ready to build it locally in India and work with any partners in this market.
Do you have any joint ventures in India?
Our motor company has a joint venture in India which is growing. Renault group also has some JVs in Asia for the utility vehicle manufacturing. There is a possibility that we put the same organisation into the defence sector.
Are you in talks with the ministry of home affairs to offer your products?
We are aware of the requirements at the ministry of home affairs for the paramilitary forces and we are open to offer our products that would fit their needs soon.
Futuristic Programmes
Indian defence industry heading for a paradigmatic shift in indigenisation.
M.V. Kotwal
_______________________________________________ By Pravin Sawhney
M.V. Kotwal is one of the most eminent persons in the private sector focussed on building India’s defence industrial base. He is the member of board and president, Heavy Engineering, Larsen & Toubro and was a member of the Kelkar Committee that submitted its exhaustive report on strengthening the nation’s defence industry with optimal participation from the private sector industry to the government in April 2005. FORCE had met him two years ago however, on the eve of DefExpo-2012, had another opportunity to interact with him recently.
FORCE asked him how India could realise its objective of reaching 70 per cent indigenisation from the present 30 per cent as desired by defence minister, A.K. Antony. His response was simple: “The structural anomaly with respect to department of defence production needs to be corrected to make it responsible for India’s defence industry and not defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) alone.” Once this is put in place, the “ownership syndrome the department is entangled with, will take a back-seat in the national interest and everything else will fall into place.” It will address the private sector’s long pending demand for level playing field; generate a healthy mix of collaboration and competition between the two; pave way for value based partnerships; pave way for joint ventures with Global companies serious in creating India as their new global destination; and create indigenous alternatives for indigenising India’s defence industry. This of course, will not be an easy task.This will require a change in
mind-set, redefining trust to appreciate and harness the enormous underutilised capacities and capabilities in the private sector, and to devise better management in the public sector.
Kotwal, however, is an optimist. He drew attention to the ‘Make’ category where two programmes, the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) and the Tactical Communication System (TCS) for which system development is open to both the public and private sector companies. “Earlier such a programme would have gone to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for development and to defence public sector for production,” he says. Explaining, he adds that among the interested parties the government of India (GOI) has shortlisted few to do detailed evaluations, allowed them to select outside partners for technology, and offer their final proposals. Two top-rated companies would be down selected, and funded to the extent of 80 per cent by the GOI, to develop prototypes for user approval, which will eventually lead to the induction and series production of assured minimum numbers.
This procedure is a marked improvement over, for example, the army’s Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launcher initiated about 15 years ago. The basic research was done by DRDO, and two companies, L&T and Tata were selected to make prototypes and part funded by DRDO while sizeable resources were put in by the partners during development - trial – induction phases out of their own resources for artillery’s approval. Pinaka systems developed by L&T as well as Tatas were eventually accepted, and today, L&T produces these at its state-of-the-art Talegaon manufacturing complex. Says Kotwal, “We have ambitions and wherewithal to develop complete platforms for the army. We have the capability and desire to participate in the production of guns and howitzers. We are already building multiple bridges for the army and a range of naval weapon systems and engineering systems.”
L&T’s focus, according to Kotwal, is on total system development. This requires a host of capabilities including design, engineering, manufacturing, and systems integration. “It is not possible to make a full system by manufacturing parts of it,” he says. When asked that notwithstanding L&T’s experience with Indian Navy’s nuclear-powered submarine Arihant, it is being said that L&T cannot handle the P-75I (the second line of conventional submarines) programme as the two vessels are vastly different, Kotwal is emphatic that L&T’s capacity and capability to handle P-75I are outstanding; none in the public and private sector have the range and depth in capability and track record to match it.
“Manufacturing a submarine is far more complex than a warship. Moreover, manufacturing the large hull of Arihant was a class apart from any conventional submarine,” he says. L&T has a virtual reality centre that was created for Arihant. Today, it can make 3D CAD design, put in the user to be part of the virtual world to evaluate and comment on it well before being it is built, and as a result L&T can do state-of-art modular construction to gain speed and efficiency throughout the construction phase. “We have developed the capability for detailed design from the concept design. This is a very important capability,” he stresses. “We are neutral as far as technology is concerned and so are the processes we follow. Our position is that whichever submarine the navy decides to induct, we are fully capable of creating our value additions and manufacturing it. We don’t depend upon any particular tie-up for our manufacturing capability. We have established Jigs – fixtures and done production engineering required for attaining very close tolerances needed for nuclear submarines,” he says. However, he concedes that he has not heard from the GOI about L&T’s participation in the second submarine line. Moreover, both the P-15B (destroyers) and P-17A (frigates) are slated to go to MDL. The silver lining is the LPD programme, where according to Kotwal, the MoD plans to allow two vessels each will be made in the public and private sector. Overall, as far as navy is concerned, there has been little change in GOI policy. “The process of nominating a shipyard continues after a decade of opening of the sector to Private Sector participation” he says.
This remark led to the issue of DPP-2011. Like DPP-2009, the present one has been a small step forward, but not enough, Kotwal says. According to DPP-2009, the RFP which earlier used to go to the global vendors alone can now be participated by key players in the Indian private industry as well. “This means that we can offer the large range of technology that we have developed ourselves. It also means that we can offer cost-effective solutions by harnessing foreign partner’s technology, if that makes sense. We can offer these combined with guaranteed life-time support to our Indian costumers. We have been saying this for a long time that whereas there are significant capabilities in the public sector, certain technologies have been developed in the key private industry which needs to be utilised fully,” he says, adding that, “DPP-2011 has settled the foreign exchange variations. In a level playing decision, both the public and private sector will now have to make-up for the variations from within their own resources.” However, the bigger issues still remain. For example, “In the ‘Make’ category, it may not be enough to shortlist a set of companies for a particular programme. The need is to lay down the transparent process and set of well debated criteria for selecting a company for a particular project based upon its
capabilities. When we talk of building a whole weapon system, we are talking of force multipliers. There we should not be looking at the low-cost (L1) option. Instead, the focus should be on the best substance or value multipliers that can be made available which will go a long way in strengthening the armed forces with a surprise element for the enemy. All this should go in the selection of the company and I am sure the government will look into this matter,” he says. Kotwal is suggesting is that the GOI, instead of its positive action on a case to case basis, as in the FICV and TCS programmes, should make this the rule and trust the Indian Industry with futuristic programs.
On the joint venture (JV) between L&T and EADS DS (now Cassidian), which was the first of its kind, the GOI, after years, has finally given its approval and the defence production licenses are about to be received. “We are now at the registration stage after which work between the partners will start.” He says. In this JV, L&T will have a 74 per cent stake where the focus will be on avionics and defence electronics. “As far as we are concerned, a JV is a long term programme which is not for a specific product or for a single country. Both partner companies in a JV should have something to gain in global business. We will be part of the EADS global supply chain.”
Pinaka being manufactured at Talegoen plant
__________________________________________________ So, briefly, what are L&T’s priorities in the defence sector? “We have developed capabilities primarily through partnership with the DRDO; making prototypes for rocket-launchers, torpedo launchers, fire control systems and so on. Today, we have a wide range of capabilities covering all the three services. Having said this, we have done maximum work for the navy where we have been involved from weapon systems to the nuclear-powered submarine. The “platform technologies” that we have created cover the requirement for the army and the air force as well. Our aerospace capabilities began with ISRO with the satellite launch vehicles; we were also involved in Mission Chandrayaan.”
Dwelling upon aerospace, Kotwal says that besides working with ISRO, L&T has also made missiles and weapon subsystems. “In BrahMos, we are involved in composite materials, fire control system and launch systems, which are being manufactured in our Baroda
and Talegaon facilities. Then, we are also there is aviation. We are working with HAL and have contributed to the LCA and the ALH. The LCA wing assembly is being done at out Coimbatore facility, where we have a precision manufacturing and precision machining plant. So, when you ask about my priorities for the Indian defence services, we would like to get involved in building of ships, submarines, guns and vehicles. Regarding vehicles, we would not want to manufacture them but be involved in their adaptation for certain requirements. Regarding aircraft, as we have a new composite facility, we have been supplying components,” he says.Talking about L&T involvement with DRDO, he said that they were involved in a number of Technology demonstrator as well as mission mode projects. According to him, “if a product is being developed in India, of a kind which does not exist anywhere in the world, then the DRDO does the real development exercise to create that class of systems. Once the development is through, DRDO chooses a production partner, invariably either a DPSU / OF or the development partner for the prototype. That is how we have got involved in a number of technologies, products and productionised them. When it comes to the procurement of a Platform like ships or submarines, India follows the route of identifying a technology provider; nominate a DPSU for ToT and then the DPSU tenders out work to large number of private sector companies for parts and subsystems without long term committment. Here the question is, does that particular DPSU have the capacity to absorb that technology completely. This brings to bear that particular DPSUs core engineering skills and design. After all, you can never make a full system by manufacturing parts of it.”
Taking it further, he says, “When we got involved in the full systems design through the DRDO, for example, in the
Dhanush project (vertical-launch, ship-borne missile), we sat down with the DRDO team to work out how exactly this system should be conceptualised and developed. After that, we developed simulators to simulate ship conditions and made a dummy missile, which was put on the simulator to see that everything works fine. After that, the whole thing was put on the ship and it was a great success. This implied more than detailed designing and engineering. This involved concept development technology development and execution. This helped us create the base. Today, we have a well-trained and talented team of people who are very innovative with IT tools. We use design software, like CATIA, Virtual reality, very liberally. Of course, we have a domain group of people who have retired from the navy earlier and so on.”
FORCFORCE’s brief interaction with Kotwal could not have ended without talking about the MMRCA. He is hopeful that a contract will finally be signed soon. The important thing, he says, is that “the offsets, which are 50 per cent of the value, should not get diluted.” There is enough capability in the country to absorb such large direct offsets, were his concluding remarks.
