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Indian Army finally starts rifle trials

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Importing again!!!!!:(

Its all about kickback, like always...:angry:

They all are going to come to back AKs finally in the end..

Worst Defence Procurement of recent times is purchase of Tavors, aka X- 95 from Israel

After every ARCF( Annual Range Classification Fire) we have at least 2 to 3, X-95 with broken extractor,
also this rifle gets several times more jamming than rather faulty INSAS.

Actually its Extractor cannot withstand the heat of continuous fire, gets softened and further breaks.

CoBRA have now refused to carry X-95 with them, as in almost every operation they have to retaliate fire, so they carry only AKs. These shitty rifles (Tavors) are just for showoff, eating dust in armory, also there are plans underway to sell these rifles to NSG at depreciated price.

Price tells all ....
Bulgarian AK- Rs 6 k
INSAS- Rs 18 k
Tavor- Rs 62 k
:coffee:
 
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..why can't these systems be developed & made in India..??


Reply to your Question is NO, because these systems are one of the most complex system in the defense industry,
Assault Rifles cannot have advance technologies involving complex electronics and system, and that what makes it difficult to design. Assaults Rifles have to be crude yet effective, that is why technology used in fifty's in rifle are still successful one because that era was of crude, reliable and rugged design, not involving complex matrix.

What most people don't understand that any rifle design has to be knockdown, that means each part of rifle should get separated without using any tools for its easy handling and maintenance, so good looking rifles are sometimes tough to clean and maintain so please don't judge rifle by its look.

Rifle quality depends upon its metallurgy which is again a complex science, every country has different weather and so is the level of reaction of Rifle's metal in different places, In simple words a rifle which is great in cold Serbia could be a junk in Iraq. And India which has a diverse areas with different weather, its tough to design an all weather rifle.

Another quality Rifle is judged by is range and caliber, with range of most assault rifles more or less same I would jump to Calibres, I think its really not important to have multi-calibre rifles, Tavors are multi- calibre rifles but I dont know a single incident where Security forces has intended to change the calibre of rifle for any operation, because its of no use.

There are many more factors, but I have quoted the most basic ones up here. May be senior members could add up more.
 
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Reply to your Question is NO, because these systems are one of the most complex system in the defense industry,
Assault Rifles cannot have advance technologies involving complex electronics and system, and that what makes it difficult to design. Assaults Rifles have to be crude yet effective, that is why technology used in fifty's in rifle are still successful one because that era was of crude, reliable and rugged design, not involving complex matrix.

What most people don't understand that any rifle design has to be knockdown, that means each part of rifle should get separated without using any tools for its easy handling and maintenance, so good looking rifles are sometimes tough to clean and maintain so please don't judge rifle by its look.

Rifle quality depends upon its metallurgy which is again a complex science, every country has different weather and so is the level of reaction of Rifle's metal in different places, In simple words a rifle which is great in cold Serbia could be a junk in Iraq. And India which has a diverse areas with different weather, its tough to design an all weather rifle.

Another quality Rifle is judged by is range and caliber, with range of most assault rifles more or less same I would jump to Calibres, I think its really not important to have multi-calibre rifles, Tavors are multi- calibre rifles but I dont know a single incident where Security forces has intended to change the calibre of rifle for any operation, because its of no use.

There are many more factors, but I have quoted the most basic ones up here. May be senior members could add up more.

I agree to your points..but my question was exactly on those points..
1) we know our weather better than outsiders..
2)metallurgy:- should this be difficult then designing Arjun gun's metallurgy
3)components / sub components..:- we know which are worn out fast in Indian conditions..
IMO, it is the lack of prioroty that is the main cuplrit..
aka 1962..when we were investing on Vikrants..hunters etc..but never gave the due importance to the humble ...Rifle..stuck with 303..
 
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Guys!

What is your idea about this Iranian Assault rifle :

137924_ae27c6b072ed0ed59557b44ca07c7619.jpg


137928_1853cbdb4e80a50bc153a58cb891d213.jpg


137925_343bf3edeb3709451fb0ab98c55f658f.jpg

Looks nice, you got any specs? Is it Ambidextrous and multi caliber?

Why you are not testing HK G36 or HK 416 and HK 417

These are not multicaliber or ambidextrous.
 
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I agree to your points..but my question was exactly on those points..
1) we know our weather better than outsiders..
2)metallurgy:- should this be difficult then designing Arjun gun's metallurgy
3)components / sub components..:- we know which are worn out fast in Indian conditions..
IMO, it is the lack of prioroty that is the main cuplrit..
aka 1962..when we were investing on Vikrants..hunters etc..but never gave the due importance to the humble ...Rifle..stuck with 303..

Well I would say, I agree to you to some extent about lack of priority to be given to rifle making.

But reason I quoted above were possible hurdles not specific though, of designing this complex "Nothing",(Assault Rifles)

In fact efforts to make a decent rifle is underway from 1980 itself ( INSAS Project) and it didn't worked out well after so much investment and research, so there must be some good enough reason. Because in the meantime our research capabilities were increased by manifolds.

INSAS was one the best designed rifle, with its features derived from several best rifles of the world but real reason of its failure is mostly reported as OFB's failure to maintain the quality of designs to series production from prototypes.

Till today, most rifle have same mechanism of either rotating bolt (Used in AK) or Fixed breach block (Used in FAL rifles and some modern ones) mechanism, all are more or less same with just little twitch to it, be it Tavor, be it MP 5 or AK. And surprisingly these mechanism were designed in fifty's that's what my point was, that we cannot modernize this system, we can only play a little smart by adding some extra features and deadly looks (As done by western countries).
 
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MCIWS is the INSAS replacement for the entire IA (more than a million INSAS are waiting to be inducted). However the MCIWS is some 3-5 years away and will come under the F-INSAS program.

This foreign multi-cal procurement is for a few select units (RR, Para Brigades and such ) but NOT going to kill the MCIWS in any way shape or form.
Source??
Trials are already going on of foreign rifles and 66000 will be bought and about 150000 will be manufactured domestically.What about that??
 
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i think we have hks for the SFs and SPG and SG. these are big tenders..are those hks multi caliber ? 5.56 & 7.62 ? then i don't know..
HK G 36 have different caliber and one HK 416 OR HK 417 is off the caliber which you mentioned
 
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Cause you don't have the technology to produce a decent rifle that IA needs.

i get quite confused here why India can't produce a decent rifle when they had reached to Mars?

Source: Indian Army finally starts rifle trials | Page 3
Because its a small order. Easier to get the TOT and manufacture in India and cheap as rifles are NOT complicated. Private players have already paid for the RnD so why waste tax payer money to RnD the same thing when you could still get local production expecially when its niche item. This is not nationalist boasting contest but a matter of finance. For example, the MP5 used by USN etc... they have the money, but private player is cheaper.
 
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Source??
Trials are already going on of foreign rifles and 66000 will be bought and about 150000 will be manufactured domestically.What about that??
I don't understand the question.
 
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43f32b06ec55f7225404bfe3dba9c54c.jpg


Our OICW will be in service soon, with in a year.

India is still behind China in OICW development, keep fighting!
 
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