Indian Army Falsified Kargil Battle Records

[rockstarIN]

Sigh. An Indian commander gave a recommendation to our Army for the bravery of our soldier Sher Khan. In this particular event Sher Khan was over ran from his post and while being outnumbered captured it again making your Indian soldiers run for their lives.

Thats the honour & respect between the armies kid...

well you do not understand that.

 

[RazPaK]

Also anybody using Nawaz Sharif's figures must be insane.

KARGIL, PERVEZ Musharraf wrote on his official website two years ago, "proved a lesson to the Indians and a rude awakening to the world of the reality of Kashmir." Now In the Line of Fire: A Memoir by Pakistan's President has sought to give shape and form to that controversial contention in the first official account that has emanated from Islamabad on the causes and course of the Kargil war. In the handful of pages of the book that deal with the Kargil war, the General promises to "lay bare what has been shrouded in mystery."

His narration has two major elements — Indian provocation and the betrayal of Pakistani military triumph by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

During the autumn of 1998, he writes, India began to complain of Pakistani intrusions in the Siachen sector. On investigation, he discovered, these attacks were "make-belief." As a result, Pakistan's military became increasingly convinced that India was inventing pretexts to go to war. By the end of the year, according to the General, evidence existed that "India was on the verge of an attack across the Line of Control." Two Indian brigades, which were normally moved to the Kashmir valley each winter, were held back in Leh. In addition, India's 70 Infantry Brigade was moved into the Kargil theatre. New bunker-busting equipment also arrived in the area.

Pakistan, in this rendition, responded by enhancing its defensive positions along the Line of Control. Some 100 new section-strength posts, General Musharraf records, were set up on unoccupied heights that winter, in what he extols as "a tactical marvel of military professionalism." However, he claims, none crossed the watersheds along the LoC. By March 1999, as his troops began to reach these positions, the General slowly began to learn of the parallel military task "Pakistani freedom fighters" had undertaken: the occupation of some 800 square kilometres of Jammu and Kashmir. He claims that it was only on May 7, after fighting broke out, that he was given "a comprehensive briefing of their positions."

What followed was, in his view, "a landmark in the history of the Pakistan army ... As few as five units in support of freedom fighter groups were able to compel the Indians to deploy more than four divisions." Despite India's numerical superiority and air support, its armed forces were only able to secure gains "which I would call insignificant."

Despite this overwhelming military success, General Musharraf argues, Prime Minister Sharif crumbled under international pressure and offered a ceasefire. "It remains a mystery to me why he was in such a hurry," he remarks. Pakistan's military ruler demolishes Mr. Sharif's claims that the operation was launched without his knowledge; in fact, he lists specific dates on which briefings were provided to the Prime Minister.

Most of General Musharraf's contentions are familiar. Islamabad-based academic Shirin Mazari anticipated most of the important arguments in her book on the war. Pakistani military officials have repeatedly taken the same position at conferences — to little effect, given the mass of technical intelligence, first-person accounts, and scholarly investigation that debunk the `mujahideen' story. The General's assertion that Nawaz Sharif knew of the war is also not new. Most Pakistani commentators believe the Prime Minister was aware of at least the contours of the enterprise by April 1999. Debate over the accuracy of the information Mr. Sharif was provided continues — and could sharpen after General Musharraf's claims about "freedom fighters" and India's offensive plans.

However, claims that the war plans were provoked by Indian offensive intent sit ill with the historical record. The General's assertion that the 70 Infantry Brigade had moved into the area is one important half-truth. The Brigade's headquarters did return to the Kargil theatre in November 1999, after spending a year-and-half in Kashmir — but its fighting troops remained committed to counter-terrorist operations there. Indeed, as General Musharraf's covert services would have told him, India's pre-war posture was studiously defensive. For example, the 9 Mahar Regiment was removed from its defensive positions along the Yaldor Langpa and stationed at a rear position near Leh in the winter of 1998-1999. The 26 Maratha Light Infantry, which protected the crucial infiltration route from Mashkoh to Dras, was also pulled off forward duties.

Scholarly accounts also do not bear out President Musharraf's claims that the Pakistan Army was sitting pretty at the time it was ordered to withdraw from Kargil. Two empirically thorough military accounts, Ashok Verma's Blood on the Snow and Y. M. Bammi's The Impregnable Conquered, leave no doubt that Indian troops had broken through to the LoC in most sectors before July 12, when the ceasefire came into force. Point 5090-metres in Dras — known to Indian television viewers as `Tiger Hill' — had been recaptured by July 11. Point 4875, another strategically crucial feature, had fallen a week earlier. Pakistan continued to hold on to some key positions, such as Point 5300-metres and 5329-metres in the Batalik sector, at the time of the ceasefire. However, just four days of intense bombardment (July 22-26) led to their recapture.

The claim of the author of In the Line of Fire that India understated its casualties is also without any factual foundation; even if the intention exists, undercounting and underreporting numbers of the military dead and seriously injured is just not possible in India. Pakistan's well-documented efforts to cover up its losses, and give credit to imaginary mujahideen fighters rather than the troops who lost their lives, provoked riots in its Northern Areas after the war.

Even the bravest soldiers are not immune to the inevitable effects of the one-sided use of air power and superior artillery. That a professional soldier is in denial, refuses to face the truth, reflects the Pakistani officer class's belief that it is infallible — and invincible.

As the historian Christophe Jaffrelot has pointed out, the "myth of the Muslim soldiers' superiority over his Hindu counterpart has long been a part of the mental landscape of Pakistan's senior officers" — even though it has "exacted a high price from Pakistan's troops."

Pakistan's military, General Musharraf's book reveals, still sees Kargil as a triumph — or at least a blueprint for one. As Ashley Tellis, C. Christine Fair, and Jamison Jo Medby have noted, the Pakistani establishment believes "that the use of Pakistani troops in Kargil invited political failure" but did not derive from this the further conclusion "that other forms of violence are either illegitimate or ineffective for altering the status-quo."

According to the scholar Hassan Abbas, Pakistan's Military Operations Directorate had first drawn up plans for war in Kargil during the regime of General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq. The military dictator rejected it on the grounds that it could "lead us into a full scale war with India." But General Musharraf took that big risk — and lost. Incredibly, his book makes it clear that he thinks he won — a fact Indian analysts ought to pay close attention to.

Musharraf and the truth about the Kargil war with India

 

[humanfirst]

In this particular event Sher Khan was over ran from his post and while being outnumbered captured it again making your Indian soldiers run for their lives.

No sher khan sahib didn't capture a single post from indians but he singlehandedly withstood his post until he went out of ammo.That dont count as capturing indian posts.

 

[RazPaK]

No sher khan sahib didn't capture a single post from indians but he singlehandedly withstood his post until he went out of ammo.That dont count as capturing indian posts.

He recaptured the post sir.

 

[Nirvana]

Sigh. An Indian commander gave a recommendation to our Army for the bravery of our soldier Sher Khan. In this particular event Sher Khan was over ran from his post and while being outnumbered captured it again making your Indian soldiers run for their lives.

But he was Not able to recapture the Tiger Hill Post !! Indian Army shown a Great Instance of Valour and Respect for the Enemy who Died fighting with Courage !!

This is What his Brother Said

Captain K Sher Khan's brother Sikandar Sheikh says, “Allah ka shukar hai ki humara dushman bhi koi busdil dushman nahi hai. Agar log kahen ki India busdil hai to main kahunga nahi kyuki usne aelania keh diya ki karnel sher hero hai (No enemy is a coward. I won’t call India coward because it proclaimed Sher Khan as a hero).”

 

[pmukherjee]

Pakistan did emerge as the one that didn't gain from this war. That does not necessarily mean we lost since from our perspective we didn't mean to launch the offensive just yet. An early detection led to the war when it did. Obviously our aim was not to just capture Tiger Hill, but it was to break through Dras sector and then engage the Indian Army at a future date which would have made the advance to Srinagar easy.

The war from Pakistan would have started after that, with an official attack from the Poonch district, squeezing in from both sides to Srinagar.

The idea is still valid, if you can engage the Indian Army anywhere else, the push from Poonch to Baramullah is quite doable then the battle for Srinagar can ensue. From Pakistan's side, the second attack would come from here in the future as well, Indians really need to figure out where the first one would come from.

Musharraf's plan seemed weak since logistically Dras Sector can easily be supplied by Indian forces through the highway, but Pakistanis need to air lift their supplies in. Kargil and Dras can be used as irritants for the Indian army but an actual offensive must come from elsewhere.

NLI is 60 battalion strong now it was 14 battalions then. Food for thought

I suggest that the Punch - Baramullah approach be not taken too seriously. Look at the map below. The PA would be screwed climbing the Pir Panjal where they would be targeted by our artillery and air with impunity. Only to be met by a reception party once they managed to reach the plains on the other side, if they reached it.

 

[Kazhugu]

He recaptured the post sir.

no he was shot after he ran out of ammo...and his bravery was duly notified by the indians to pakistanis...

 

[Nirvana]

He recaptured the post sir.

I Just want to Tell you in short my friend !! If you think Indian army was Coward you are Wrong

Indian Army Respected Their Enemies and Cremeted Bodies of them with Respect when Pakistan Officials were Not Ready to take them back . Unlike Pakistan Army who Ashamed Humanity By Killing Saurabh Kalia in Most In Human way

You Govt Didn't even have guts to accept back then that It was their Army In Kargil and Not Some Mujahideens

It was Pakistan Army that Started Kargil By Violating Ceasefire and LOC !! Indian Army Never Violated Ceasefire and advanced into ***

And Pakistan Army Didn't Withdrew its forces Like China in 1962 like Some members are Stating Here !! Pakistan was Made to Withdrew and India Captured Back Tiger Hill with Great Bravery.

Comparing Pakistan Army in Kargil with Chinese In 1962 is Non-sensical

Chinese Did defeated Us but Pakistan Never Did and Never Will

 

[ares]

Also anybody using Nawaz Sharif's figures must be insane.



Musharraf and the truth about the Kargil war with India

Your internal affair are so botched up.

Your govt tells one fairy tale , opposition parties another..while your armed are in totally different plane..it surprising you still function as a single unit.

You can not, believe your PM..because "obviously"(since what he is saying is bitter) he is lying.

You can not believe ..your army..coz it has been proved that they have been lying.

You can not believe them Indians ..for obvious reasons...that they are Indians.

You guys must be really confused!!

 

[Nirvana]

Get Over Kargil !! It was Biggest Blunder by your Nation Since 1971 and the Whole World [China Included] Condemned Actions of Pakistan army In Kargil !

 

[Mav3rick]

But we Did Captured Back all those Military Post that were Occupied by Pakistan which Led to Kargil Incident !! Not to forget Pakistan faced heavy Casualities and Nawaz Sharif 'Fearing Bigger War' Made Rounds from U.S To China Asking for Help

Both U.S and China Condemned the Actions of Pakistan !! 'Kargil' was Biggest Blunder of Pakistan , Accept It !!

You did not recapture military posts or peaks, they were all vacated by Military & Militia upon NS (PM) orders for the Military to pull back due to intense US pressure. Those heavy casualties (around 450-550) occurred mostly during retreat as your forces had no regard for ceasefire that was initiated by your side.

And NS was not fearing the bigger war as it was Pakistan that had started the whole episode remember? It was your PM who called the whole world to intervene and threatened that the conflict could break into all all out war and eventually a Nuclear war. Your country scared the **** out of the world with Nuclear war propaganda!

Kargil started and the conflict was promising right to the point where NS caved against US pressure to pull back, it was never meant to start a war, it was merely meant to force India to the table. But yes, Kargil ended with a disaster for us because of our traitor political prime minister.

 

[Windjammer]

But we Did Captured Back all those Military Post that were Occupied by Pakistan which Led to Kargil Incident !! Not to forget Pakistan faced heavy Casualities and Nawaz Sharif 'Fearing Bigger War' Made Rounds from U.S To China Asking for Help

Both U.S and China Condemned the Actions of Pakistan !! 'Kargil' was Biggest Blunder of Pakistan , Accept It !!

Did you really ??....your own sources say otherwise.!!....as one military historian put it, "Indian public wanted to be assured of a victory and their frivolous media provided them this hollow victory".

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

 

[Bang Galore]

You did not recapture military posts or peaks, they were all vacated by Military & Militia upon NS (PM) orders for the Military to pull back due to intense US pressure. Those heavy casualties (around 450-550) occurred mostly during retreat as your forces had no regard for ceasefire that was initiated by your side.

Wow! That's some pretty strong stuff you have been smoking (all your life?)

And NS was not fearing the bigger war as it was Pakistan that had started the whole episode remember? It was your PM who called the whole world to intervene and threatened that the conflict could break into all all out war and eventually a Nuclear war. Your country scared the **** out of the world with Nuclear war propaganda!

Fine, we scared the world, what's your excuse? Wet pants?

Kargil started and the conflict was promising right to the point where NS caved against US pressure to pull back, it was never meant to start a war, it was merely meant to force India to the table. But yes, Kargil ended with a disaster for us because of our traitor political prime minister.

Traitor PM then, traitor PM & President now (according to the likes of you). Nothing changes in Pakistan, I guess. Trying to force India to the table? Brilliant plan. How you chaps ended up as short eats on that table is a long story, I suppose?

 

[Mav3rick]

Wow! That's some pretty strong stuff you have been smoking (all your life?)

If posting stupid remarks helps your cause, please continue posting.

Fine, we scared the world, what's your excuse? Wet pants?

Our excuse was deposed a few months later, he was the premier of my country when he caved under diplomatic pressure of uncle Sam.

Traitor PM then, traitor PM & President now (according to the likes of you). Nothing changes in Pakistan, I guess. Trying to force India to the table? Brilliant plan. How you chaps ended up as short eats on that table is a long story, I suppose?

Well things did change, we had an honest & patriotic leader for 8 years......things are back to the point that they were in 1990's for us. As I said, we failed to achieve our objectives as, unlike your leaders, our political leaders value their premiership more than their country or her pride.

 

[Nirvana]

Did you really ??....your own sources say otherwise.!!....as one military historian put it, "Indian public wanted to be assured of a victory and their frivolous media provided them this hollow victory".

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

The Point 5353 you are Taking About comes On the Line of Control - which was never Occupied By Indian army Since wherever L.O.C Goes over Peak Nobody Occupies it

So this was Another Breach of L.O.C By Pakistani Army !!

There are Fact and Fictions of this Point on both sides