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Indian Air Force News & Discussions

LOL.

Nothing in print is available. Open source or closed source.

It's early days but there are no ifs and buts about it. Combined arms ops is the way wars will be fought in and Indian Military has to get it's house in order and accommodate new CnC structures supporting this. There is not much work to be done as white paper exists and further assistance from US is forthcoming.

As for utility there is variety of roles

- Anti Armour
- Precision Strikes supporting sf
- recon in absence of drones
- taking out HVTs in absence of UCAVs

Basically there are wide variety of roles they can perform once the org issues are sorted out. I would prefer division level embeds with some supporting infra in FoBs
I would wager that attack helos the caliber of 'paches will see much more action than fixed wings come hunting season
 
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LOL.

Nothing in print is available. Open source or closed source.

Everybody knows about the disagreement between the IA and the IAF with respect to attack helicopters. This article says the army has been wanting for attack helis since 1963.
http://www.forceindia.net/Combat_Ready.aspx

The LCH requirements were drawn up after Kargil, so it's not a wonder the design stage started in 2006.

The last I heard, the IAF will train the AAC. It's monkey see, monkey do.

http://www.asianage.com/india/army-aviation-needs-integral-attack-helicopters-379
The Indian Air Force Doctrine 2012 has listed eight tasks of AHs. The first is to provide suppressive fire to the ground troops where artillery or the ground attack effort is either not available or is likely to be less effective. On account of the helicopters’ variable speed and hover capabilities, engagement of surface targets in various situations would be highly effective. The second is to provide flank protection to mechanised formations. Next is the task to interdict targets in the close vicinity of the tactical battle area. A fourth task is to neutralise bridges used by the enemy for breaking out. Another task is to provide route cover and suppressive fire to heliborne assaults to create a favourable ground situation. The AHs are further tasked with providing air defence cover against enemy armed or attack helicopters, engaging enemy helicopters involved in troop carriage, reconnaissance and communication duties and neutralising radar sites located close to the border.

As it stands now, the 39 Apaches will see three squadrons and each squadron will be assigned under each strike corps. The Indian Army is the primary customer for both Rudra and LCH also.

Of course, I am not in a position to say whether going for attack helicopters is a good decision or not. This article definitely condemns it.
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/attack-helicopters-should-india-have-them/

And I'll end this with the words of ACM retd Norman Browne...
The attack helicopter issue is an old issue. There is a document called the Joint Army Air Instruction (JAAI) of 1986 which authorises roles and responsibilities of who does what. The IAF has always operated helicopters of all kinds. The Army's charter is confined to light utility helicopters. The two squadrons of attack helicopters we currently operate are manned and maintained by the IAF, but under command and control of the Army. That is the rule position.
 
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http://www.militaryaircraft-airbusd...ft/OrdersAndDeliveries/AMOrdersDeliveries.pdf

No orders have been placed for the C295 by India!... wasn't this not approved last year?


Three “Made in India” defense contracts worth $3.7b. were cleared last May. One was worth $2b. for joint production of C-295 transport aircraft by Airbus and Tata Advanced Systems (TAS) to replace the IAF’S aging Avros. The initial order is for 56 aircraft, with options for eight more.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/India-modernizes-its-military-451620

“A natural candidate for the RTA could be the [military] transporter C-295 also civil certified, being assembled in India to replace the Indian Air Force Avro fleet,” an MoD official suggested. The RFI states construction “should be modular and capable of quick conversion from one role to another with minimum efforts, logistics, and time in its basic configuration and in all its variants.” The requisite roles include passenger and cargo traffic for civil use,ETOPS capability, a combi conversion ability, VIP movements, troop and military cargo movements, land and maritime surveillance and search and rescue over land and sea. As a result, the C-295 could conceivably bring commonality, lower maintenance and training costs and flexibility for dual use. “It can be configured to carry cargo, passengers, and even both. “The problem with HAL is that it is spoilt for proprietary [features]. It wants everything of its own,” said the official. “Though the C-295 back loading ramp will reduce seats [to a maximum of 50], its multirole [configuration] could prove beneficial.” he said. HAL would likely have to design the RTA for airports with short runways and without air traffic control towers and operations in non-radar controlled airspace.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...dias-hal-seeks-partners-new-regional-aircraft
 
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LOL.

Nothing in print is available. Open source or closed source


IN the last TWO Months Indian Army and IAF have held THREE Joint exercises

1 Exercise Shatrujeet

2 Exercise Chakravyuh

3 Exercise Panther Charge
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https://defence.pk/threads/army-hones-proactive-strategy-with-massive-exercise-in-thar.426925/

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-army-holds-massive-exercise-chakravyuh.429790/

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-army-troops-carry-out-massive-exercise-in-punjab.432640/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classified Doctrines and documents are only for the people who NEED to KNOW
 
Last edited:
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Everybody knows about the disagreement between the IA and the IAF with respect to attack helicopters. This article says the army has been wanting for attack helis since 1963.
http://www.forceindia.net/Combat_Ready.aspx

The LCH requirements were drawn up after Kargil, so it's not a wonder the design stage started in 2006.

The last I heard, the IAF will train the AAC. It's monkey see, monkey do.

http://www.asianage.com/india/army-aviation-needs-integral-attack-helicopters-379


As it stands now, the 39 Apaches will see three squadrons and each squadron will be assigned under each strike corps. The Indian Army is the primary customer for both Rudra and LCH also.

Of course, I am not in a position to say whether going for attack helicopters is a good decision or not. This article definitely condemns it.
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/attack-helicopters-should-india-have-them/

And I'll end this with the words of ACM retd Norman Browne...
The attack helicopter issue is an old issue. There is a document called the Joint Army Air Instruction (JAAI) of 1986 which authorises roles and responsibilities of who does what. The IAF has always operated helicopters of all kinds. The Army's charter is confined to light utility helicopters. The two squadrons of attack helicopters we currently operate are manned and maintained by the IAF, but under command and control of the Army. That is the rule position.

Good post.

Going bassackwards, Norman Browne is just pointing out that the Army has no business flying planes and helicopters. That's fair enough, but it doesn't reflect the constant pressure that the IAF faces from both the Navy and its Fleet Air Arm as well as the Army and what is turning out to be an Army Air Corps. Any responsible Air Chief will try to stop this fragmentation of the airborn mission into tribes and sub-tribes.

Coming to whether or not India should have attack helicopters or not, it needs to be pointed out that there are two possible and opposing visions of the role of these helicopters going forward: the fast role and the slow role. In the latter, attack helicopters do pretty much the same thing as before: basically, guarding the aerial flanks of an armoured or fast-moving infantry or mixed column. In the former, there are interesting possibilities, which need a separate and detailed consideration.

IN the last TWO Months Indian Army and IAF have held THREE Joint exercises

1 Exercise Shatrujeet

2 Exercise Chakravyuh

3 Exercise Panther Charge
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://defence.pk/threads/army-hones-proactive-strategy-with-massive-exercise-in-thar.426925/

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-army-holds-massive-exercise-chakravyuh.429790/

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-army-troops-carry-out-massive-exercise-in-punjab.432640/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classified Doctrines and documents are only for the people who NEED to KNOW

These are available even beyond, of course, on a highly restricted basis. And we are nowhere near as strict in our confidentiality as we ought to be. From that perspective, it can be said confidently that the first proper outlining of doctrine is yet to happen. These exercises should - must - lead to the formation of a doctrine around the experience distilled from them. That they already have done this is in question.
 
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Three “Made in India” defense contracts worth $3.7b. were cleared last May. One was worth $2b. for joint production of C-295 transport aircraft by Airbus and Tata Advanced Systems (TAS) to replace the IAF’S aging Avros. The initial order is for 56 aircraft, with options for eight more.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/India-modernizes-its-military-451620

“A natural candidate for the RTA could be the [military] transporter C-295 also civil certified, being assembled in India to replace the Indian Air Force Avro fleet,” an MoD official suggested. The RFI states construction “should be modular and capable of quick conversion from one role to another with minimum efforts, logistics, and time in its basic configuration and in all its variants.” The requisite roles include passenger and cargo traffic for civil use,ETOPS capability, a combi conversion ability, VIP movements, troop and military cargo movements, land and maritime surveillance and search and rescue over land and sea. As a result, the C-295 could conceivably bring commonality, lower maintenance and training costs and flexibility for dual use. “It can be configured to carry cargo, passengers, and even both. “The problem with HAL is that it is spoilt for proprietary [features]. It wants everything of its own,” said the official. “Though the C-295 back loading ramp will reduce seats [to a maximum of 50], its multirole [configuration] could prove beneficial.” he said. HAL would likely have to design the RTA for airports with short runways and without air traffic control towers and operations in non-radar controlled airspace.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...dias-hal-seeks-partners-new-regional-aircraft

Thanks for the reply

But have u seen the link i put up, it is the Airbus current order book for present and future order with deliveries made and India isn't on the list!
 
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Thanks for the reply

But have u seen the link i put up, it is the Airbus current order book for present and future order with deliveries made and India isn't on the list!


May be because its a JV .

Fernando Alonso, Head of Military Aircraft at ADS, said that C295 sales have been very thin this year, but they have in the past fluctuated from five to 30 a year. However, he is encouraged by developments in India, as Airbus has been selected to supply the type to replace the Avro transport fleet, in partnership with Tata under the Make in India programme.


News date : 2.06.2016

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...c295s-this-year&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107
 
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Good post.

Going bassackwards, Norman Browne is just pointing out that the Army has no business flying planes and helicopters. That's fair enough, but it doesn't reflect the constant pressure that the IAF faces from both the Navy and its Fleet Air Arm as well as the Army and what is turning out to be an Army Air Corps. Any responsible Air Chief will try to stop this fragmentation of the airborn mission into tribes and sub-tribes.

Coming to whether or not India should have attack helicopters or not, it needs to be pointed out that there are two possible and opposing visions of the role of these helicopters going forward: the fast role and the slow role. In the latter, attack helicopters do pretty much the same thing as before: basically, guarding the aerial flanks of an armoured or fast-moving infantry or mixed column. In the former, there are interesting possibilities, which need a separate and detailed consideration.

IMO, it makes more sense to keep the AH under the army. The IAF is the only major AF with AHs in its inventory. Nobody else has it. I believe the army argued along those lines and won.
 
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Sukhoi-BrahMos combo draws global interest

Still in the development stage, the kind of unprecedented business interest the Sukhoi 30-BrahMos missile combo is generating among different countries has sparked off the possibility that it might turn into a huge money-spinner for both India and Russia from exports.

Business enquiries have started, particularly after June 25, when Indian scientists created history by flying the heavyweight missile BrahMos for 58 minutes (45 minutes in flight) with a state-of-the art Sukhoi-30 executing a perfect takeoff and smooth landing at HAL Nashik, that sparked imagination about the lethality of the integration and the huge force-multiplier implications.

“Irkut Corporation of Russia, that manufactures Sukhoi-30 fighters, has received immense business enquiries on the Sukhoi 30-BrahMos combo. A lot of countries have already expressed deep interest on purchase,” an official source told this newspaper on condition of anonymity.

Asked about the business agreement with Russia for the BrahMos missile, Sudhir Kumar Mishra, CEO & MD of BrahMos Aerospace, told this newspaper: “As it is a joint venture entity with a 50.5 per cent Indian share and 49.5 per cent Russian share, the proceeds will be divided accordingly between the two partners.”

On the next step, Mr Mishra said: “Now we plan to carry out a few more flights and drop tests with a dummy missile before firing an actual BrahMos air-to-ground missile from the Sukhoi. As of now, the actual test-firing of BrahMos is expected by October-November this year.”

Explaining the process, he said: “The missile, fitted in the Sukhoi-30 fuselage, will be released from the aircraft first. Once it drops clear of the aircraft, the missile’s booster engine will ignite, propelling the weapon to its target.”

Essentially a land-attack and anti-ship cruise missile system with stealth characteristics that was developed for multiple platforms, the BrahMos can fly at a speed 2.8 times faster than sound for a 290-km strike range with a 300-kg explosive payload.

It is the kinetic energy of the missile due to its very high speed along with the warhead that makes the BrahMos a deadly weapon. The missile’s high supersonic speed all through the flight, its low flight range with a variety of trajectories and its low radar signature enables it to straightaway bang on the target with pinpoint accuracy without being detected by enemy radar systems.

The demand for the BrahMos is quite high in the Indian armed forces too. “The Army has already operationalised three regiments. The Navy’s 10 frontline warships have deployed the missile. The Air Force has acquired the land-attack BrahMos. Now the Brahmos air version will power many Sukhoi fighters of the IAF,” an official said.

http://www.asianage.com/india/sukhoi-brahmos-combo-draws-global-interest-291
 
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MoD seeks ‘Made in India’ UAVs

As unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) assume increasing significance for both combat as well as surveillance roles, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has initiated the process of procuring such systems from indigenous sources.



The MoD wants a common medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) platform that can be used by all three services, though some features could be adapted or modified to meet the specific operational requirements of the Army, Navy or Air Force. A request for information issued by the MoD indicates that the services need 150 new MALE UAVs. These are proposed to be developed and manufactured by the Indian industry based on proven technologies where fundamental research is not required.


Low radar, thermal and acoustics signature, capability to operate between minus 40 to 55 degrees Celsius, altitude ceiling above 30,000 feet with more than 25 hours of endurance, a satellite-based navigational system, automatic take off and landing capability and an automatic identification system to identify merchant ships along with its cargo are key features required for the proposed UAVs.


The Indian Armed Forces began inducting UAVs in 2000 and at present, more than 200 such systems are in service. These are primarily Israeli-made Heron and Searcher UAVs along with a handful of DRDO-made Nishant UAVs. An upgraded version of Nishant, called Panchi, and an armed drone, Rustom, are being test evaluated by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). There were also some reports of India procuring the armed version of Heron from Israel.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/mod-seeks-made-in-india-uavs/260833.html


Sukhoi fleet to fly with India-made MFDs



More than half of Indian Air Force’s Sukhoi fleet would soon be flying with a critical cockpit component that is made in India.

Samtel HAL Display Systems (SHDS), a joint venture between Samtel Avionics and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), has handed over about a thousand units of indigenously manufactured multi-function display (MFD) to state-run HAL.

Sukhoi 30 MKI is the mainstay of the Indian Air Force fleet. The Sukhoi is a twinjet multirole air superiority fighter developed by Russia’s Sukhoi and built under licence by India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The MFD’s are for installation in the Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter aircraft fleet. Out of a planned fleet of 272 Sukhoi aircraft with the Indian Air Force, 143 would be flying with India-made MFDs – a critical component of an aircraft cockpit.

SHDS is the only company to receive CEMILAC (Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification) Type Approval for manufacturing MFDs. The Samtel-HAL joint venture was set up in 2007 to address the avionics requirements, including test benches and systems for all IAF star platforms – both fixed and rotary wing.

Development of the variant started after India signed a deal with Russia in 2000 to manufacture 140 Su-30 fighter jets. The first Russian-made Su-30MKI variant was accepted into the Indian Air Force in 2002, while the first indigenously assembled Su-30MKI entered service with the IAF in 2004. Additional MKIs have been ordered to increase the total from 272 to 314. A variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, it is a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter. The Su-30MKI is expected to form the backbone of the Indian Air Force’s fighter fleet to 2020 as India is expected to Rafale fighter jets to supplement its air power.

The Sukhois are tailor-made for Indian specifications and integrates Indian systems and avionics as well as French and Israeli sub-systems.

http://defenceaviationpost.com/sukhoi-fleet-fly-india-made-mfds/
 
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what happening in IAF Sulur Airbase ?
Did the plane land at AFB?
The kind of low pass you've mentioned, it looks like, its a practice run before actually landing the plane.
But again i'm not sure if a C-17 hasn't ever landed at Sulur. With LCA slated to be homed at the base later, could be a case of IAF, upgrading the base.
 
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Did the plane land at AFB?
The kind of low pass you've mentioned, it looks like, its a practice run before actually landing the plane.
But again i'm not sure if a C-17 hasn't ever landed at Sulur. With LCA slated to be homed at the base later, could be a case of IAF, upgrading the base.
I resides in Tirupur from where straight line distance from Sulur Airbase is nearly 25 Km. C-17 take tight turn (very low attitude (if I am able to take picture then we can able to read serial no. of it) & flew away. I thought C-17 take off from Airbase.
 
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Just half hour before IAF's C-17 Globe Master taking very low pass tight turn over sky in Tirupur.
I miss the chance to take clear photo.
@MilSpec @Abingdonboy @anant_s @PARIKRAMA any idea what happening in IAF Sulur Airbase ?
The only thing I can think of vis a vis Sular is the building up of the airbase to support fighter ops (namely the home base of 45 SQN). In this regard, there are quite a few elements that will have to come together and certifying the C-17 to operate from the airbase will be among them but really there are 1000s of reasons why the Globemaster could have made a visit to the LCA's (soon to be) home base.

Also, do not forget that 45 SQN is SAC's first fighter SQN.
 
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SC says defence procurement and aircraft modernisation not in its purview


CJI TS Thakur says he doesn't want pilots dying due to old aircraft, but refuses to jump into defence upgradation
NEW DELHI:
The Supreme Court has said that defence procurement and aircraft modernisation are not in its purview and acknowledged that the Indian Air Force's fleet needs to be upgraded and pilots should not be put at risk because of aging fighter jets.
"We are not saying that the government should not upgrade or that pilots should die. But let the government and experts decide," Chief Justice of India TS Thakur, sitting alongside Justice DY Chandrachud, observed while dismissing a public interest litigation. "Defence procurement is a subject in executive domain."
The matter should be decided by experts, the CJI said. The bench was dealing with the PIL filed by one Parneet Singh, who said the government had embarked on a self-destructive course of upgrading its Mirage aircraft fleet instead of buying new fighter jets from elsewhere at a cheaper rate.
Singh's lawyer alleged that although the Mirage aircraft had long outlived its utility, the Indian government decided to upgrade them at a cost of Rs 344 crore per plane instead of switching to other aircraft. This, he alleged, was putting the lives of trained fighter pilots at risk and some 170 pilots have died in the past seven years.
In an emotive plea, Singh's lawyer said that buying new aircraft did not involve any expertise and only required common sense. "Defence procurement is being compromised and the defence of the nation is at stake," he charged. Even the Comptroller and Auditor General of India and parliamentary committees had expressed concern over the old fleet of the Indian Air Force, he said.
At one point, the CJI jocularly commented that people in India were either for the Mirage or the Sukhoi. "Which camp are you?" he asked.
The chief justice then said he would rather leave such decisions to the government and experts and dismissed the PIL.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...n-not-in-its-purview/articleshow/53179860.cms
 
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