Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Vibs]

Agreed on the role of the Helo's.. but then why the IAF operating them at all??
Cant these helo's be operated by the IA and based on FARP's?

It again comes back to inter-operability. Where the army offense has an element of surprise,the entire operation including the role of attack helo's could be delegated to the armed forces. Incase of an open confrontation, the attack helo's need air support, else they are sitting ducks. At such a time, it would be next to impossible for an army to both plan a ground attack as well as co-ordinate with the IAF for air support for the helos. Under such situations, the IAF can best plan how to deploy it's own helo's and aircraft for support.
It all boils down to inter-operability of the forces and need of the situation.

 

[jha]

Agreed on the role of the Helo's.. but then why the IAF operating them at all??
Cant these helo's be operated by the IA and based on FARP's?

Its all turf war...IF IA starts operating a large fleet of aircrafts then IAF will have very little to do..
However IA and BSF are hell pressed to have their own aviation arm.. Next 5-6 years are very interesting..

 

[sancho]

...but also Airborne transport capability. And never mind anybodys protestations, these two capabilities must be incoporated in to the IAs forces....

I think the question is not if the IA needs medium lift helicopters as well, but if these helicopters should be divereted completelly to the army air wing, instead of beein splitted between the forces?

There is no doubt about that the Mi 8/17 will be used during war times mainly for the IA needs, supporting their ground forces, but what about them in peace times? Does the IA need such a huge fleet then as well, or are the LUH/Dhruvs enough to fulfill the utility role? And if the Mi 8/17s will be splitted into 3 (IN for sure then wants it own fleet as well), who is in charge in peace time missions like humanitarian relif, during floods, or assisting BSF, or other forces against the naxalities today? Will IA provide their helicopters? Will it be more difficult to coordinate the helicopters of 2 different forces for these joint puroses?

In Germany for example the army air wing has the medium to heavy lift CH 53 helicopters, but only them! The air force just has smaller utility helicopters, mainly for their needs (just like IA has them now). The advantage is, in war time German army has full control on these transport helicopters, but they are still centered at a single force, so during peace time missions, you just have to deal with the army and they are in charge and coordinate the missions alone.
However, Germany and its forces are way smaller than India and Indian forces. Would it make sense to have a similar way in IA and IAF as well, or are these medium to heavy helicopters needed in addition to the fixed wing fleet, to fulfill IAF transport roles for all forces?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think the question is not if the IA needs medium lift helicopters as well, but if these helicopters should be divereted completelly to the army air wing, instead of beein splitted between the forces?

There is no doubt about that the Mi 8/17 will be used during war times mainly for the IA needs, supporting their ground forces, but what about them in peace times? Does the IA need such a huge fleet then as well, or are the LUH/Dhruvs enough to fulfill the utility role? And if the Mi 8/17s will be splitted into 3 (IN for sure then wants it own fleet as well), who is in charge in peace time missions like humanitarian relif, during floods, or assisting BSF, or other forces against the naxalities today? Will IA provide their helicopters? Will it be more difficult to coordinate the helicopters of 2 different forces for these joint puroses?

In Germany for example the army air wing has the medium to heavy lift CH 53 helicopters, but only them! The air force just has smaller utility helicopters, mainly for their needs (just like IA has them now). The advantage is, in war time German army has full control on these transport helicopters, but they are still centered at a single force, so during peace time missions, you just have to deal with the army and they are in charge and coordinate the missions alone.
However, Germany and its forces are way smaller than India and Indian forces. Would it make sense to have a similar way in IA and IAF as well, or are these medium to heavy helicopters needed in addition to the fixed wing fleet, to fulfill IAF transport roles for all forces?

I can answer that in one sentence. Germany has a concept of a Combined Defence Forces (even if the forces exist separately); India does not.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Its all turf war...IF IA starts operating a large fleet of aircrafts then IAF will have very little to do..
However IA and BSF are hell pressed to have their own aviation arm.. Next 5-6 years are very interesting..

Who says so? The IAF has the fighters, bombers and transports to look after. That is enough to keep them very happily occupied.

 

[Abingdonboy]

For this interested in future and role of IA AAC check out this link:
http://www.spslandforces.net/ebook/19012011.pdf

I think one of the more interesting statements in the magazine is that the AAC has the MOST helicopters of the three services. Showing how much IAF has conceded.

 

[Abingdonboy]

If your interested in IAF history:

Indian Air Force Museum, Palam

 

[SQ8]

It again comes back to inter-operability. Where the army offense has an element of surprise,the entire operation including the role of attack helo's could be delegated to the armed forces. Incase of an open confrontation, the attack helo's need air support, else they are sitting ducks. At such a time, it would be next to impossible for an army to both plan a ground attack as well as co-ordinate with the IAF for air support for the helos. Under such situations, the IAF can best plan how to deploy it's own helo's and aircraft for support.
It all boils down to inter-operability of the forces and need of the situation.

IS that not counter-productive??
IAF planning on its own on how to support the IA??
Is the IAF going to be micromanaging the IA??
Such a structure will lead to a high friendly fire rate..
Since the IAF will do what it wants to do, regardless of what the IA wants.
Its silly to say the least.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Can I just ask why the sudden interest from you Santro? It seems that you are intent on criticising India and forcing people to praise Pakistan and the PA aviation structure. No matter what answer you are provided with you do not seem satisfied- yes, okay, IA/IAF aviation structure leaves much to be desired but so what? IA has plans to improve dramatically in the next 5-10 years. Read my post (#1431) and visit link it will answer all your questions.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

IS that not counter-productive??
IAF planning on its own on how to support the IA??
Is the IAF going to be micromanaging the IA??
Such a structure will lead to a high friendly fire rate..
Since the IAF will do what it wants to do, regardless of what the IA wants.
Its silly to say the least.

Actually according to the practical experiences of Indian Generals in erstwhile conflicts , they 've found it to be more effective in determining feasibility of air operations , and the most effective way to use ariel assets is left to the IAF rather than the IA .

Due to the very issue you pointed out , IA ( the army branch ) getting precedence over other branches and deciding for them ....several of our previous conflicts had inefficient battle management .

Excerpt from 1965 war between India-Pakistan , post battle analysis of flaws in strategy

t was found later that only 14% of India's frontline ammunition had been fired and India still held twice the number of tanks than Pakistan did. By this time, the Pakistani Army itself had used close to 80% of its ammunition.

Air Chief Marshall (retd) Lal points to the lack of coordination between the IAF and the Indian army. Neither side revealed its battle plans to the other.The battle plans drafted by the Ministry of Defence and General Chaudhari, did not specify a role for the Indian Air Force in the order of battle. This attitude of Gen. Chaudhari was referred to by ACM Lal as the "Supremo Syndrome", a patronizing attitude sometimes attributed to the Indian army towards the other branches of the Indian Military.

Such an approach has been discarded quite a while back by our military Thinktanks...

 

[SQ8]

Can I just ask why the sudden interest from you Santro? It seems that you are intent on criticising India and forcing people to praise Pakistan and the PA aviation structure. No matter what answer you are provided with you do not seem satisfied- yes, okay, IA/IAF aviation structure leaves much to be desired but so what? IA has plans to improve dramatically in the next 5-10 years. Read my post (#1431) and visit link it will answer all your questions.

Your insecurity blinds your judgement.
I could say the same about you, thankfully Id rather not pass demented comments like you.
Even the last iota of respect I had for you as a contributing member just got flushed out.


As for people I actually found the discussion productive with.
UG..
What i meant to point out is that whosoever commands the IBG should have say over CAS sorties.
However, it does not imply that the Fast jets too come under IA "bullying".
Rather that the Slower air assets aka helo's should come under the IA entirely. Instead of having a tasking order issued through the IBG comd.
Then relayed to the IAF, who then decide which asset to send and what to do.
The flow of information should be IBG comd->helo base .. end.

 

[angeldemon_007]

IAF to get 5th generation fighter planes

ALLAHABAD: The induction of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) will enhance the capability of the Indian Air Force which will be procuring the 5th generation fighters by 2017 and by 2027. The country will then have 42 to 45 squadrons as compared to present 34 squadrons, said Chief of Air Staff, Indian Air force, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik. He was speaking to the media here on Tuesday.

The Air Chief Marshal said the IAF would be continuing with its non-offensive role in the Naxal operations. On the question of the proposed post of Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), Naik said he was not opposed to the post of CDS, but its pros and cons should be looked into and we should see why it is needed and what kind of model will it be based on.

On the issue of proposal of IAF taking control of Hindustan Aeronautical Limited, the Chief Marshal said the IAF will not take over the setup but has proposed deputing an officer of the rank of Air Marshal to supervise the operations and enhance the efficiency of HAL.

About conferring the rank of honorary Group Captain on cricketer Sachin Tendulkar, Naik said the Little Master is an icon for the youth.

"The regional and global geopolitical dynamics are changing rapidly and this calls for greater vigil and preparation by the defence forces to neutralise a variety of security challenges," Naik said. The IAF is alive to the changing threat scenario and is fast emerging as a strategic aerospace force, capable of addressing our security concerns, he added. "Our response mechanisms are being upgraded constantly, through the induction of cutting-edge technologies and training of our personnel. I would like to assure the nation that the Indian Air Force is ever-ready to meet any challenge that may come our way," the Air Chief said.

Praising the role of the Central Air Command (CAC), Naik said, "CAC is an important bastion of the IAF and is in a state of continuous action. The command is home to some of our most vital strategic assets and has a force-blend capable of achieving any given objectives. The induction of AWACS, AAR and some of the latest aircraft and responsibility has significantly enhanced our capabilities." He also complimented all personnel working at various units under CAC for the excellent work they are doing in service of the nation.

IAF to get 5th generation fighter planes - The Times of India

 

[Black Widow]

what the hell, he should say something which we don't know...

 

[anathema]

If somebody has full video then please do post it ----

 

[RPK]

Defunct Humanity: Mi-28N in hi-res pics