Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[jha]

 

[DarK-LorD]

GE Aviation trains guns on Indian defence sector
Published: Tuesday, Aug 9, 2011, 8:00 IST
By Priyanka Golikeri | Place: Bangalore | Agency: DNA

GE Aviation, the US-based $17.6 billion aircraft engine manufacturer, is optimistic about getting more contracts for supplying to the Indian military.

Bansi Phansalkar, general manager, India Engineering Operations, GE Aviation, said the firm has technologies for the military sector.

“We have technologies like F 414, P8 which are suited for the Indian military. Unlike the US where we supply extensively to both military and commercial aircraft, in India though we have been supplying to the military aircraft, it’s more on the commercial aircraft side where we have a large presence,” said Phansalkar.

According to Nalin Jain, vice-president, GE Aviation, South Asia, currently majority of the firm’s revenues from India come from the civil sector with good growth expected from the defence segment in future.

“The defence business is presently more at the orders stage, while the civil business is at the delivery stage. We expect this proportion to change as defence deliveries start kicking in.”

According to an expert connected with the aircraft industry, in the coming years the firm’s India business might see a shift in favour of the military segment. “More than half the business comes from the commercial supplies at present and this might change in favour of the military supplies in future.”

On the civil side, GE supplies to airlines like Air India, Jet Airways, GoAir and SpiceJet, with roughly 450-500 engines made by GE and CFM powering these airlines. CFM is an equal stake joint venture between GE and French aircraft engine manufacturer Snecma.

On the military side, the company currently has an agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) for the supply of LM2500 gas turbines for India Navy’s stealth frigates such as INS Shivalik, INS Satpura and INS Sahyadri.

It has also won contracts for supplying 99 F414 INS6 engines for the Mk II version of the Indian Air Force’s light combat aircraft Tejas.

In the past it had supplied F 404 engines for the Mk I version of Tejas.

GE Aviation trains guns on Indian defence sector - Money - DNA

 

[sancho]

Pics of IAF Mig 29 during upgrade, next to the IN Mig 29 production:

Pics of INs Mig 29 production:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/30327-indian-navy-news-discussions-98.html#post2009083

 

[LiberalAtheist]

1. improve pilot training (go from 3 stage process to 5 stage ab initio basic intermediate advanced lead in fighter training)
2. conduct better maintenance on aircraft and replace obsolete and technologically defunct aircraft or upgrade obsolete aircraft
3. have better future planning for aircraft serviceability

follow 3 steps above and IAF crash record will go down!

 

[Tshering22]

1. improve pilot training (go from 3 stage process to 5 stage ab initio basic intermediate advanced lead in fighter training)

The problem is NOT 3 step training but the availability of equipment and jets to train. For years, our pilots are being sent directly from the Deepaks to MiG-21s. From a 350 Kt prop trainer to a 800+ Kts supersonic interceptor that has already crossed 2 decades of its overdue retirement time. So whose fault is it? The rules' that has been implemented or the treacherous politicians who don't give a jack about pilots' lives?

2. conduct better maintenance on aircraft and replace obsolete and technologically defunct aircraft or upgrade obsolete aircraft

HAL, DRDO, ADA, ARDE and other Labs have to unite as ONE unit and be privatized or at least outsource parts manufacturing to budding Aerospace private companies. No other option.

3. have better future planning for aircraft serviceability

Removing red-tapism, babu-giri and stupid socialist era rules would be far better and automatically get this right.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

The problem is NOT 3 step training but the availability of equipment and jets to train. For years, our pilots are being sent directly from the Deepaks to MiG-21s. From a 350 Kt prop trainer to a 800+ Kts supersonic interceptor that has already crossed 2 decades of its overdue retirement time. So whose fault is it? The rules' that has been implemented or the treacherous politicians who don't give a jack about pilots' lives?



HAL, DRDO, ADA, ARDE and other Labs have to unite as ONE unit and be privatized or at least outsource parts manufacturing to budding Aerospace private companies. No other option.



Removing red-tapism, babu-giri and stupid socialist era rules would be far better and automatically get this right.

true Deepaks themselves are flying coffins and have been grounded since 2009 we had no advanced jet trainer in the 90's pilot went from a subsonic Kiran to a supersonic and very challenging MiG-21 which themselves were technologically obsolete and way past there service lives but 5 stage training makes pilots more experienced and better in air to air combat

HAL NAL and DRDO aerospace labs need to be merged into a state run, joint stock, or pvt, firm similar to Boeing or UAC that has a design bureau and manufactures there own fighters, UAV's, trainers, transport aircrafts, bombers, helicopters, AWACS, etc and maybe even civilian airliners this should be done with all the other DRDO labs either merge them with already functioning companies who are in the defense sector in the same field like for example all of the DRDO electronics labs merge with BEL, GTRE merge with BHEL, etc

the amount of red tape in defense procurement is just amazing if IAF wants to import just spares for its aircraft the deal has to first be sent to delhi to the CCS to be approved, remove red tape and decentralization is really needed for our country IN ALL sectors


me personally though i like the idea of 5 stage training dont you? the more and better the training a pilot gets the better he will be in the air!

 

[Abingdonboy]

1. improve pilot training (go from 3 stage process to 5 stage ab initio basic intermediate advanced lead in fighter training)
2. conduct better maintenance on aircraft and replace obsolete and technologically defunct aircraft or upgrade obsolete aircraft
3. have better future planning for aircraft serviceability

follow 3 steps above and IAF crash record will go down!

I think you have suggested this on other threads. I agree with you on 2+3. But to be honest the IAF already operates (and certainly will do in the future) a 5 step traing process- v.basic flight (gliders/light turboprops), basic trainer (currently HAL DEEPAK, future will see Pilatus PC7), intermediate trainer (currently HAL KIRAN, future it will be HAL IJT), advanced training (BAE HAWK, for which 40 are on order for IAF on top of initial 66) and finally conversion/type training carried out on the type the IAF pilot will be flying (MKI, MIG 21, Jag etc).


And with phasing out of old and unreliable planes such as the MIGs and induction of MUCH safer, more reliable and advanced planes, and increased simulation training (which IAF has already identified as a priority) then the crash rate should fall further.


If you look at IAF crashes the majority are to do with mechanical failure and in many of these cases the rookie pilots show true professionalism, often putting off ejecting to steer into empty land. So replacing unreliable and, now, unsafe planes will dramatically improve crash rates. And a few are due to Pilot error but this is to be expected in any AF and there is little that can be done about it- it is split second miscalculations that can never be avoided.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

I think you have suggested this on other threads. I agree with you on 2+3. But to be honest the IAF already operates (and certainly will do in the future) a 5 step traing process- v.basic flight (gliders/light turboprops), basic trainer (currently HAL DEEPAK, future will see Pilatus PC7), intermediate trainer (currently HAL KIRAN, future it will be HAL IJT), advanced training (BAE HAWK, for which 40 are on order for IAF on top of initial 66) and finally conversion/type training carried out on the type the IAF pilot will be flying (MKI, MIG 21, Jag etc).


And with phasing out of old and unreliable planes such as the MIGs and induction of MUCH safer, more reliable and advanced planes, and increased simulation training (which IAF has already identified as a priority) then the crash rate should fall further.


If you look at IAF crashes the majority are to do with mechanical failure and in many of these cases the rookie pilots show true professionalism, often putting off ejecting to steer into empty land. So replacing unreliable and, now, unsafe planes will dramatically improve crash rates. And a few are due to Pilot error but this is to be expected in any AF and there is little that can be done about it- it is split second miscalculations that can never be avoided.

MiG-27 and MiG-21 (non upgraded ones) are the real flying coffins we need to scrap them from service immediately and get a god dam dedicated basic trainer, we should still use a transonic AJT like the T-38 Talon or T-50 golden eagle

 

[Abingdonboy]

MiG-27 and MiG-21 (non upgraded ones) are the real flying coffins we need to scrap them from service immediately and get a god dam dedicated basic trainer, we should still use a transonic AJT like the T-38 Talon or T-50 golden eagle

Perhaps but I am still unconvinced that conducting a 6 Stage training process is really nessercary and I think the time would be better spent on the pilots being trained on the type they will fly which is the end target. So getting to grips and putting as many hours as possible on the type is surely the best option. Possibly the IAF need to induct more trainer variants of the fighters they have (I am unsure whether there is a shortage of them or if this has been questioned in the past) as having an experienced instructor in the back with a rookie in the front flying in the fighter is surely the best of both worlds- gaining experience on the fighter but having the instructor there in case the rookie pushes to far.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Perhaps but I am still unconvinced that conducting a 6 Stage training process is really nessercary and I think the time would be better spent on the pilots being trained on the type they will fly which is the end target. So getting to grips and putting as many hours as possible on the type is surely the best option. Possibly the IAF need to induct more trainer variants of the fighters they have (I am unsure whether there is a shortage of them or if this has been questioned in the past) as having an experienced instructor in the back with a rookie in the front flying in the fighter is surely the best of both worlds- gaining experience on the fighter but having the instructor there in case the rookie pushes to far.

the pilots would be trained on the same trainers until they get to there fighter (im still not sure if in the IAF pilots are given choice of what to fly)

we could procure 250+ NAL Hansa for Ab Initio (baby step fighter training)
PC-7MK2 is already gone through
HAL HJT-36 Sitara
BAE Hawk (we need a good quantity of Hawks)
as for an CAT T-50 from South korea is good but i heard U.S might go in a JV with India for development of a new CAT to replace T-38 Talon

after this stage it is conversion training basically 2 seat variants of the fighter jet used to train the pilots then they go right to the fighter and conduct sorties

i really like the idea of Israeli air force instructors training our pilots at all of our fighter pilot schools having good trainers plus flight instructors will make you a beast pilot in the air

 

[Abingdonboy]

the pilots would be trained on the same trainers until they get to there fighter (im still not sure if in the IAF pilots are given choice of what to fly)

we could procure 250+ NAL Hansa for Ab Initio (baby step fighter training)
PC-7MK2 is already gone through
HAL HJT-36 Sitara
BAE Hawk (we need a good quantity of Hawks)
as for an CAT T-50 from South korea is good but i heard U.S might go in a JV with India for development of a new CAT to replace T-38 Talon

after this stage it is conversion training basically 2 seat variants of the fighter jet used to train the pilots then they go right to the fighter and conduct sorties

i really like the idea of Israeli air force instructors training our pilots at all of our fighter pilot schools having good trainers plus flight instructors will make you a beast pilot in the air

It seems the IAF is proceeding, mostly, along the lines you have stated and yes, I heard rumours of a JV with US on a transomic trainer. we will have to wait and see what happens but I believe the IAF are on track and (as the professionals) know what why are doing- all news coming from IAF seems to be intelligent and well thought out in this regard.

+ btw there will be 106 BAE HAWKS in IAF service by 2013 and 17 with IN.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Another Picture of the MiG 29 UB-UPG(Nice colour!)

Can anyone tell me about the strange "thing" above the cockpit?!

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Another Picture of the MiG 29 UB-UPG(Nice colour!)

Can anyone tell me about the strange "thing" above the cockpit?!

could be IRST

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

could be IRST

I've marked it(Red circle).Is that IRST?

 

[typhoon77]

I've marked it(Red circle).Is that IRST?

No, the IRST is clearly visible in front of the cockpit. My guess is that its some sort of testing sensor. What for i don't know.
It might be b/c of the angle at which the photo was taken but do the engines seem weird to anyone? It almost looks as if the Nozzle on the right is smaller than the left one.
Also, is that a new active jammer on the right tail fin? I don't think that was there previously. Overall the upgraded Mig looks great.