Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Mighty Lion]

So already Tejas order reduced before production even started? Assembling SU-30s is very different from home manufacturing your own plan, are you able to understand this. "boy"!?

Wrong. Su-30 now has almost same level of indigenous content like Tejas (70%+).

IAF Chief Dhanoa in 2019


“IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged

That was just Dhanoa obediently following politicla masters orders as poltical leaderhip was facing criticism due to giving Ambani and not HAL Rafale offsets deal.

1. he Mk 1 version of the aircraft fell short on many counts like the user requirement of a trainer aircraft, inadequate electronic warfare capability, performance sub-optimalities related to the functioning of radar warning receiver, missile approach warning system, weight specifications, inadequate protection to pilot from front side, under powered engines and so on.
   
   
2. It was intimated by the HAL and ADA that most of the above shortcomings will be addressed in the upgraded version of Tejas called Mk 1A ( interim version) and a subsequently advanced Tejas Mk 2 which will be developed as a Medium weight Fighter aircraft

Not real shortcomings as even with them its specs are higher that JFT blk 2. But IAF wanted Blk3 lvl aircraft from beginning itself.

Nonethless this thread is abiut sheer manaudacruring might of HAL and production stats (300 Dhruvs, 222 incl. 112 fron 100% raw materials prove it)

 

[Yasser76]

Ah yes, SU-30 is as Indian as LCA and IAF chief not his own man. Thanks for clarifying. I made my points with facts, lets leave it there.

 

[MirageBlue]

Not a case of what I believe or even what you believe, "16 a year is going to happen for sure", when to total deliveries as of now are how many? 16? After 10 years of production?

In 2017 HAL promised 123 Tejas by 2024.

Please carry on just living in fantasy land.


21 MIGs and 12 SU-30 contract still not signed, so this may not even happen.

As usual you are going around obtaining best case future projections and trying to pass them off as on the ground facts. So lets look at worse case scenario as HAL always seems to come out worse off than it's predictions.

Reality right now for Indian Air Force is

Tejas = At current rates only 80 aircraft in next 10 years
Rafale = Just two squadrons

Total = 116 planes

Contract for extra MIG-29s and SU-30s STLL NOT SIGNED.


Due for retirement in next 10 years

MIG-21 = 54
Jaguar = 118

Total = 162 planes

So Basically unless HAL sorts itself by end of decade IAF will of shrunk even further (by two squadrons). This does not even take into account attrition, which over the last 10 years has averaged 10 planes per year. That is another 100 planes in next 10 years, so deficit goes to

162 planes being retired + 100 attrition = 262 planes.

With only 116 being inducted.

Hence possible case where IAF is 144 planes (7 squadrons) short. In essence IAF size becomes just 22 Fighter squadrons. Around same size as PAF.

Carry on with your fantasies. Doesn't make one bit of a difference.

 

[MirageBlue]

You cannot be certain of any follow on order for Rafale for sure, not under current financial circumstances.
Unsure how IAF would continue to be sole operator of Jaguar for another 10 years and (as it currently stands) will be flying the most outdated aircraft in Asia by then. in 2030 almost every PAF/PLAAF aircraft may well have AESA and advanced EW. Unsure if Jaguars would last 5 minutes. Also, with every passing year that goes by Jaguar operations become more hard to maintain and more expensive, especially as every single spare part will actually have to be built from scratch or current fleet will be cannablised.

Most outdated aircraft in Asia? The DARIN 3 Jaguar? It has Elta 2052 AESA radar BTW and will be supported by HAL which has the required expertise and has also sourced Jags from all over for usage as Christmas trees. Rebuilt Jag DARIN 3s are being supplied back to the IAF and the oldest Jags will be retired.

Actually you ought to worry about the PAF. How is it going to replace those hundred plus obsolete Mirage 3, 5s and F-7PGs? Looks like the PAF knows it'll have to continue flying the Mirages at least this decade which is why they sourced more Mirages from Egypt. and these obsolete fighters against Rafales, Mirage-2000I, Su-30MKIs and Tejas Mk1 and Mk1As? Cannon fodder unless they're shielded by F-16s and JF-17s.

Where will the money come from to replace ~200 fighters this decade with an economy teetering on the edge? And what types? Just keep buying more JF-17s?

As for PAF F-16s, where is the roadmap to make them get AESA radars as you claim that nearly all PAF fighters will be AESA equipped? I doubt the PAF will get the F-16V package from the USA, so what's the option? Turkish AESA? Unproven, untested, not in service as yet. And the US has to approve of any such upgrades or else support will become a major headache.

 

[Yasser76]

Not very bright are you?


The Jaguar is already undergoing an avionics upgrade — from Darin-I to Darin-III standard — but this programme is seven years behind schedule.

“The Darin-III upgrade is all about avionics and a better cockpit system. However, the problem is with the engines. Since the thrust factor is coming down, the aircraft is already flying with lower load during peacetime operations as a precautionary measure,” a source said.


Sources added that there would come a time when aircraft would be grounded as and when their engine thrust comes below a specific point, as it would put the pilots’ lives at risk.


IAF pilots have a morbid joke among themselves that the Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that in case of one engine failing, the second takes the aircraft to the crash site, not back to safety."

IAF set to shelve Jaguar engine upgrade, could buy more Su-30 MKIs instead

Jaguar engines have seen a 15-30% reduction in thrust, and the cost of the upgrade is too high. One Sukhoi can perform the same role as two Jaguars.

theprint.in

Nice diversion tactic talking about PAF, happy to do this in PAF thread, but last time I checked this was an IAF thread.

 

[MirageBlue]

I frankly don't have enough time to respond to the amount of rubbish you post. Anyway, this is a forum I don't much care about. There's so much fakery and falsehood around here, what's one more thread filled with crap?

 

[Yasser76]

I frankly don't have enough time to respond to the amount of rubbish you post. Anyway, this is a forum I don't much care about. There's so much fakery and falsehood around here, what's one more thread filled with crap?

The way one concedes and handles defeat says much about one's character. I am sorry from IAF pilots and IAF Chief is regarded as "rubbish" by you, but than again, cognitive dissonance can do funny things to people. My best wishes for the future to you.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Not very bright are you?


The Jaguar is already undergoing an avionics upgrade — from Darin-I to Darin-III standard — but this programme is seven years behind schedule.

“The Darin-III upgrade is all about avionics and a better cockpit system. However, the problem is with the engines. Since the thrust factor is coming down, the aircraft is already flying with lower load during peacetime operations as a precautionary measure,” a source said.


Sources added that there would come a time when aircraft would be grounded as and when their engine thrust comes below a specific point, as it would put the pilots’ lives at risk.


IAF pilots have a morbid joke among themselves that the Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that in case of one engine failing, the second takes the aircraft to the crash site, not back to safety."

IAF set to shelve Jaguar engine upgrade, could buy more Su-30 MKIs instead

Jaguar engines have seen a 15-30% reduction in thrust, and the cost of the upgrade is too high. One Sukhoi can perform the same role as two Jaguars.

theprint.in

Nice diversion tactic talking about PAF, happy to do this in PAF thread, but last time I checked this was an IAF thread.

That’s an old article. A 125 KN HoneyWell engine is selected for it.

‘Indian’ Air Force​

 

[Yasser76]

That’s an old article. A 125 KN HoneyWell engine is selected for it.

Please, I think you have lied so much know you cannot tell the difference between truth and fiction. Engine upgrade was dropped

This article is from August 2019, if you have something more recent please post and I shall retract my statement and apologise

No new engines for Jaguars, phase-out starts in 2023

Time and cost concerns stymie plan to give a power boost to 80 of the 116 jets now in service on the Air Force fleet

www.thehindu.com

Article also mentions Jaguar phase out starts in 2023, but some "informed" posters here are claiming it will serve beyond 2030.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Please, I think you have lied so much know you cannot tell the difference between truth and fiction. Engine upgrade was dropped

This article is from August 2019, if you have something more recent please post and I shall retract my statement and apologise

No new engines for Jaguars, phase-out starts in 2023

Time and cost concerns stymie plan to give a power boost to 80 of the 116 jets now in service on the Air Force fleet

www.thehindu.com

Article also mentions Jaguar phase out starts in 2023, but some "informed" posters here are claiming it will serve beyond 2030.

The last Jaguars rolled out in about 2009 so some of them will serve till then.
They won’t be phased out soon.

Sorry my mistake about that engine news.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Well the Global 5000 makes an extremely rare appearance, manned by the IAF but under the ARC:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1319638807768084480

The DARIN-III Jag(Lovely image by Praneeth Franklin)

and another beauty from Sanjay Simha:

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

The tail houses the DRDO developed unified EW Suite with a jammer

Although not the beast that the D29 EW suite on the MiG29Upgrade is, it is still very helpful.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

From 2018 Cope India exercise

The then PACAF Chief and present USAF chief after his sortie in the Mirage
The USAF flew in from their home location in Japan with their F-15 jets and C-130J Super Hercules aircraft

This is a bit long but has some nice shots of the recoveries of Su and Jags, the Hawks would have flown a lot as well.

 

[Nityam]

Patrolling the Himalayas,

 

[ziaulislam]

Please, I think you have lied so much know you cannot tell the difference between truth and fiction. Engine upgrade was dropped

This article is from August 2019, if you have something more recent please post and I shall retract my statement and apologise

No new engines for Jaguars, phase-out starts in 2023

Time and cost concerns stymie plan to give a power boost to 80 of the 116 jets now in service on the Air Force fleet

www.thehindu.com

Article also mentions Jaguar phase out starts in 2023, but some "informed" posters here are claiming it will serve beyond 2030.

the whole darin update is useless and point less without any engine as it was built around an engine update.

If darin upgrades go along it would be case of kick backs and the aircraft will be less effective then before ...i would prefer an UNupgraded jaugaur with some load capacity then darin 3 with even worse load capacity ..

Regardless the upgrades would cost almost as much as a new aircraft


But jaugaurs will stay untill they fell out of sky as there is no replacement so 2030 is probably true
There is a reason why PAF arent adding heavier radars or new engine on mirages and instead focusing on jf17s with using mirages for what they were meant for