Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Abingdonboy]

Also apparently civil airlines are watching where this deal goes.

I have some doubts on that, once because BSF already has their fixedwing aircrafts and they already decided for the C295, which means they have only an importance if the C295 would win in IAF as well. Secondly, aircrafts like the C295 or C27J are not interesting for civil airlines, since they wouldn't need a ramp or certain capabilities that are important for the forces. So if there would be a relation, only the AN 140 and the Saab 2000 would be options and by the fact that MoD is actually struggeling to get privat firms interested, since the order of 56 is reportedly too low for them to be cost-effective, it shows that there is currently no talk about 3 or even 4 times the requirements from MoD. Even these high numbers are questionable, since except of IAF, most forces don't require more than 10 to 15 aircrafts (and I am pretty sure them some of those you mentioned won't get it for sure), so hitting 100 would be difficult enough.

If there would be such a big requirement, they would go for more MTAs anyway, because that is still our (partner) development, which obviously should gain the most benefits and orders, with a foreign aircraft build under licence in smaller numbers.

This is just what he told me bro- I can't validate it obviously but he has given me such info in the past and it has, more often than not, turned out to be right on the money. But talking specifically about your point that the MoD is struggling to get Indian pvt players on board. From what he tells me this is waaaayyy off the mark. In fact A LOT of Indian pvt entities have shown some serious interest in this deal- and not just the usual players.



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IAF's first C-17 handed over to the IAF:

 

[sancho]

But talking specifically about your point that the MoD is struggling to get Indian pvt players on board. From what he tells me this is waaaayyy off the mark. In fact A LOT of Indian pvt entities have shown some serious interest in this deal- and not just the usual players.

The CEO of a reputed private sector defense company says that the number of aircraft to be built in India --- just 40 --- is too low to repay the investment that will be required to set up an assembly line and the flight infrastructure that would be needed.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...000-crore-iaf-order-up-grabs.html#post4266984

The program was for the procurement of 56 aircraft of which 16 would be delivered off the shelf by a foreign manufacturer and 40 were to have been manufactured in India. Indian industry has found the order to be too small to justify the capital expenditure...

...StratPost has heard the desired minimum order to number from a low of at least 120 aircraft to around 200, between two and a half to almost four times the present requirement.

IAF's Avro successor aborts take-off, global tender likely | StratPost


The Strat Post article seems to be the source of the figures your friend mentioned, but as mentioned, they are hardly reachable nor useful when you already develop MTA too. That's the problem many people ignor when crying for privat companies to join Indian defence, because their main aim remains to be money making, not Indian defence! A production for 40 x aircrafts does not generate enough benefits for them, which would not be the case if they would be produced at HAL, or NAL. That's why depending on private companies are not the solution for India, but a mixed and balanced approach must be the aim.

 

[Abingdonboy]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...000-crore-iaf-order-up-grabs.html#post4266984




IAF's Avro successor aborts take-off, global tender likely | StratPost


The Strat Post article seems to be the source of the figures your friend mentioned, but as mentioned, they are hardly reachable nor useful when you already develop MTA too. That's the problem many people ignor when crying for privat companies to join Indian defence, because their main aim remains to be money making, not Indian defence! A production for 40 x aircrafts does not generate enough benefits for them, which would not be the case if they would be produced at HAL, or NAL. That's why depending on private companies are not the solution for India, but a mixed and balanced approach must be the aim.

@sancho, with respect, neither you nor I can see into the future. And who's to say there won't be follow-on orders to take the total over 56 units? Who's to say other Indian agencies/airlines don't place orders? It is far, FAR too early to be writing anything off or making definitive statements- all the bids haven't even been submitted yet.

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[sancho]

@sancho, with respect, neither you nor I can see into the future. And who's to say there won't be follow-on orders to take the total over 56 units? Who's to say other Indian agencies/airlines don't place orders? It is far, FAR too early to be writing anything off or making definitive statements- all the bids haven't even been submitted yet.

Follow orders will never be that big and as I already told you, airlines have different requirements for aircrafts than our forces, which makes orders for a C295 for example more than unlikely, because not the origin of the production is important for them, but the costs, the flight efficiency...
I would love to see the C295 for IAF, BSF, ICG and IN (although I would prefer a propengined MTA as an MPA even more), but even if that would happen, the requirement for the forces is by far not as high as speculated in the Stratpost article and more importantly, it would be better for India to order more MTAs that to order a licence produced foreign aircraft. MoD can't ignore these things only to make Indian privat industry happy.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Follow orders will never be that big and as I already told you, airlines have different requirements for aircrafts than our forces, which makes orders for a C295 for example more than unlikely, because not the origin of the production is important for them, but the costs, the flight efficiency...
I would love to see the C295 for IAF, BSF, ICG and IN (although I would prefer a propengined MTA as an MPA even more), but even if that would happen, the requirement for the forces is by far not as high as speculated in the Stratpost article and more importantly, it would be better for India to order more MTAs that to order a licence produced foreign aircraft. MoD can't ignore these things only to make Indian privat industry happy.

Time will tell bro........

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[sancho]

Officials Pessimistic About LUH Prospects

And here is the reason, although it shouldn't have any relation to Eurocopter and Kamov:

Army involved in another AgustaWestland chopper scam

The Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has launched another probe against helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland for alleged corruption in the supply of 197 Light Utility Helicopters to the Indian Army...

...CBI has registered a preliminary inquiry at the behest of the defence ministry after it found that an Army brigadier promised to help AgustaWestland swing the 197-helicopter deal.

The brigadier had allegedly demanded $5 million to swing the deal.

Italian investigators probing corruption allegations against Finmeccanica have found some documents, which show that an Indian Army officer had demanded bribe from the firm.

The information was provided to the defence ministry by the Italian investigators. The ministry forwarded it to the CBI...

domain-b.com : Army involved in another AgustaWestland chopper scam

 

[SQ8]

Saw @sancho 's avatar.. and had the idea.. unfortunately...getting AI pilots to get into the right formation is next to impossible. So this will have to do.

 

[sancho]

Saw @sancho 's avatar.. and had the idea.. unfortunately...getting AI pilots to get into the right formation is next to impossible. So this will have to do.

Tell me about it, it took me weeks to find LCA and T50 pics roughtly at a similar angle with the MKI/Rafale pic. Nice work as usual!

 

[sancho]

Airbus Tanker Business Booming

Airbus Military believes that teething problems with its multi-role tanker/transport (MRTT) business are now behind it, and that it’s set to grow over the coming year. With the A330 MRTT the company has the only new-generation tanker/transport flying, and hopes to secure new customers while continuing to deliver aircraft to its existing four operators, who will have received 17 aircraft by the end of 2013...

...India has already selected the A330 MRTT and the contract is in the process of being finalized. Airbus suggests that the signature could come as early as September, or at least before the end of the year. Six aircraft are in the initial order, although it is anticipated that the number will grow. Indian aircraft will not have a boom fitted...

Airbus Tanker Business Booming | Aviation International News


Fact or wrong reporting???

 

[Abingdonboy]

Airbus Tanker Business Booming | Aviation International News


Fact or wrong reporting???

Were you expecting these A330 MRTTs to come with boom refuelling capability @sancho bro?

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[SpArK]

UPDATE ON HAL PROJECTS:

Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA): Preliminary design phase completed. Negotiations in progress to conclude R&D contract. 20 agencies will be involved at the R&D stage.

Jaguar Upgrade: The first flight of the Jaguar Darin III (Maritime variant) took place in Nov. 2012 and is undergoing flight evaluation. Modification on two other variants–strike and trainer–is in progress. The first flights are due by July 13 and September 13, respectively. Flight Operation Certificate (FOC) is planned for 2014-15.

Mirage Upgrade: Preliminary Design Review has been completed and technical specs for the FOC have been finalized. Design activities are under progress, according to HAL

Sukhoi: In addition to the existing contract of 180 aircraft, a contract for an additional 42 has been signed. HAL claims to have “absorbed the technologies to manufacture aircraft from the raw material stage.”

Light Combat Aircraft (LCA): The prototype flew last year and carrier compatibility trials are scheduled before year-end at the Navy’s shore-based testing facility in Goa.

 

[sancho]

Were you expecting these A330 MRTTs to come with boom refuelling capability @sancho bro?

Of course, when you buy a tanker that could have these capabilities and your latest additions like the P8I require such a capability to get the most out of their operational capability, it actually would be nuts to not buy the boom.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Of course, when you buy a tanker that could have these capabilities and your latest additions like the P8I require such a capability to get the most out of their operational capability, it actually would be nuts to not buy the boom.

I was thinking/hoping for the same same goes for the ability to IFR the IAF's C-17s- but to a lesser extent. Given the IN is said to be on the hunt for their own shore0based AARs, maybe the boom will be resent on them? I'd have tove to have seen the boom and probe refuelling systems on these A330 MRTTs for the IAF though- like the FrAF AARs.