Indian Agni BM Technology origin

[Prowler]

"The Wisconsin Project was established in 1986 by now-Emeritus Professor Gary Milhollin as a non-profit, non-partisan organization that operates in Washington, D.C. under the auspices of the University of Wisconsin. The organization’s work is guided by the idea that the best way to stop the proliferation of mass destruction weapons is to do so at the source: to cut off the supply of material, equipment and technology needed to make these weapons. To that end, the Project uncovers and publicizes dangerous export transactions and works directly with countries to improve their export control systems."

Oh My Gawddd..... How am I gonna survive in this cruel world from now on?

 

[lhuang]

I am always happy to educate illiterates like you who are misinformed about everything.


The J-7MG is a improved variant with alot of chinese input thus the plane is not a copy of mig-21 F variant.

This variant actually has a British radar and American ejection seat.

 

[toxic_pus]

I dont even bother getting down to your level of getting personal with the debate which you are losing. Thats why you think its very necessary for you to talk in this manner which only reflects your frustration. Just soak your head in cold water and chill the f out.

And this is coming from a person who until recently right before the suspension would call every Indian ‘pathological liars’ simply because of petty difference in opinion. That’s convincing.

You can interrupt it in anyway that suites your ego satisfaction. No where in the report does it mentions "exact copy" of internal Scout systems when the report clearly states which foreigner country helped on Agni development. You are just having difficulties understanding these facts.

Attempt at evasion is duly noted. Mental gymnastics with semantics is also noted.

Coming up with analogies to suite your ego? Then Chinese have every single wright to call their J-7MG as "indigenous" as the shape is no longer the exact same as Mig-21 F and it incooperates different avionics and engine.

Your inability to refute the analogy is noted.

J-7 _is_ MiG 21, license produced in China with Chinese components. No matter how much refinement is made to J-7, it will remain a MiG 21 copy, although the refinement part would certainly be indigenous. Indian equivalent of J-7 is MiG 21 ‘Bison’, which has been adapted significantly to carry on air to ground attacks. India also license produced Jaguars. Recently HAL has started license producing Su-30 MKI. Just because production is indigenous, it doesn’t make these aircrafts indigenous to the manufacturing country.

already answered.

Sorry my spidey vision is not working. Can't see your invisible reply.

The funny thing is. their is practically no difference between brain washed north koreans and indians. both are deluded with their blind national patriotism.

Thus spake a genius who keeps vacillating between "SLV-3 is 'exact copy' of Scout" and "SLV-3 is 'not exact copy' of Scout". Try again.

Notice that you are refuting one of the most trusted and reliable sources in Missile and Nuclear proliferation. Just goes to show how deluded you are.

This is called the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundium. Now google to find what it means.

 

[duhastmish]

this thread was created just to flame , as the poster couldnt provide enoguh answers. rather he was trapped in his own jingoist realm,

and calling j-7 indegeniou production.

the answer to the question was given on first page only.

when told that - missile development and space reaserch handle by diffrent bodies and diffrently.

now if u really go in to origin then all missile were developed by javelin hense by tribes.

 

[Virat]

The only problem is. Their are no "honest" indians out here who can admit that SLV-3 is based on Scout Missile platform and the internal systems are French and German technologies.

First of all u failed to prove that SLV-3 is an exact copy of Scout Missile platform .so u wisely for the time being decided to call "it based on Scout Missile platform " which too can't be proved beyond doubt.

Most of the ur assertion are based on non proliferation blogs written vested groups who site the similar shape of SLV-3 and American Scout rocket and four months of training of Indian scientist named APJ Abdul Kalam received at NASA .

Well, if shapes are the primary consideration,then Agni missile hardly resemble SLV3 and there internal specifications are also different.

Tell me,have ever checked the number Pakistani rocket scientist being trained at NASA lab and length of time they studied there??

If trains at NASA were such enablers for Indian scientists,they Pakistani counterparts would achieved similar success in Pakistan space research at receiving similar training from US NASA labs.

But u know thats not the case,Pakistani SLV is still a non starter and ur missiles often trace their origin in north Korea or china.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

And this is coming from a person who until recently right before the suspension would call every Indian ‘pathological liars’ simply because of petty difference in opinion. That’s convincing.

Attempt at evasion is duly noted. Mental gymnastics with semantics is also noted.

Your inability to refute the analogy is noted.

I shouldnt be even bothered with your gutter snip talk display which only portrays yourself and goes to show in what type of low society you were brought up in. Why should i degrade myself by arguing with you in this same manner?

J-7 _is_ MiG 21, license produced in China with Chinese components. Indian equivalent of J-7 is MiG 21 ‘Bison’, which has been adapted significantly to carry on air to ground attacks. India also license produced Jaguars. Recently HAL has started license producing Su-30 MKI. Just because production is indigenous, it doesn’t make these aircrafts indigenous to the manufacturing country.

WRONG. Its better if you learn a thing or two before you make a complete moron out of yourself.

The J-7 (Jian-7, or F-7 in its export name) is a Chinese copy of the Russian Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 (NATO codename: Fishbed) supersonic jet fighter aircraft. Over 1,000 examples in different variants have been built by three aircraft manufacturers in Shenyang, Chengdu, and Guizhou since the production first began in the late 1970s.

In March 1961, the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and the Soviet Union signed the official agreement of a technology transfer package, which allowed China to build the MiG-21F-13 Fishbed-C) fighter, the Tumansky R-11F-300 turbojet engine, and the K-13 (NATO codename: AA-2 Atoll) air-to-air missile (AAM) locally under license. The production of the MiG-21 was carried out by Shenyang Aircraft Plant (now Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, SAC), while Shenyang Aero Engine Factory (now Shenyang Liming Aero Engine Company) was responsible for the production of the R-11F-300 turbojet engine.

Shenyang received few MiG-21 examples as well as some kits for assembly from the Soviet Union.] However, the delivery of the technical documents was not completed due to the rapidly deteriorating relation between Beijing and Moscow. As a result, Shenyang had to build the MiG-21 by reverse-engineering. A significant amount of survey and testing on the aircraft was carried out. Although this process has caused some delay in the development programme, it enabled the Chinese engineers to fully understand the aircraft design, making it possible for future modifications and improvements.

I hope you have learned something? good. now i can move on.. Initially the first J-7s reversed engineered were exact copy of Mig-21 F however over the course of time J-7s were internally and externally modified to an extent that they no longer exact copy of original Mig-21 F. The J-7 E is the prime example.
Externally the most significant modification were redesigned Delta wing and few minor changes as well. However the fact still remains J-7 modified variant "J-7E" is based on Mig-21F.

No matter how much refinement is made to J-7, it will remain a MiG 21 copy, although the refinement part would certainly be indigenous.

Or we could say, SLV-3 remains a copy of Scout missile the only difference is its internal systems based on complied western technologies mainly of German and French origin.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Most of the ur assertion are based on non proliferation blogs written vested groups

Educate yourself and dont make a joke out of yourself.


The Wisconsin Project was established in 1986 by now-Emeritus Professor Gary Milhollin as a non-profit, non-partisan organization that operates in Washington, D.C. under the auspices of the University of Wisconsin. The organization’s work is guided by the idea that the best way to stop the proliferation of mass destruction weapons is to do so at the source: to cut off the supply of material, equipment and technology needed to make these weapons. To that end, the Project uncovers and publicizes dangerous export transactions and works directly with countries to improve their export control systems.

As a result of the Project’s research and revelations in the press, Israel was forced to return nuclear material it had imported for improper purposes from Norway, Germany overhauled and strengthened its export control system, the U.S. Congress tightened restrictions on the sale of American supercomputers, and the U.S. Commerce Department restricted trade with 63 organizations in Pakistan and India following those countries’ nuclear weapon tests. The United States, the United Nations and the European Union also used the Project’s research to identify Iranian entities linked to nuclear and missile work whose assets should be frozen.

The Project has also provided direct assistance to U.S. and foreign government agencies to help them improve their export controls. In cooperation with the U.S. Defense and State Departments, the Project has trained nearly 800 export control officials in some 30 countries around the world. This initiative began in 1998, with countries in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. It has since expanded to include countries elsewhere that are of concern for transshipment and diversion.

The Risk Report database and the Iran Watch and Iraq Watch websites are the Project’s three principal products.

The Risk Report is a leading source of unclassified information on companies around the world suspected of links to weapons of mass destruction programs or to terrorism. The Risk Report is a subscription database first produced in 1996 that is used by governments and companies to screen business transactions. Iran Watch is a comprehensive web site that tracks Iran’s ability to construct nuclear and chemical weapons and the missiles to deliver them. Iran Watch was launched in 2004 and now has nearly 1,000 on-line subscribers. The Project’s Iraq Watch web site was launched in 2002 and contains information about Iraq’s past mass destruction weapon programs, who supplied them, the U.N. inspection process, the post-war weapon search, and remaining disarmament questions. The site has been archived since August 2006.

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[Myth_buster_1]

this thread was created just to flame , as the poster couldnt provide enoguh answers. rather he was trapped in his own jingoist realm,

and calling j-7 indegeniou production.

the answer to the question was given on first page only.

when told that - missile development and space reaserch handle by diffrent bodies and diffrently.

now if u really go in to origin then all missile were developed by javelin hense by tribes.

Answer to your questions have already been provided and now its your job to educate yourself. I am not repeating anything for you.

btw dont take my words out of context for the sake of satisfying your indian ego. I never called J-7 "indigenous" it only goes to show your lack of comprehension. What i sated that if indians call SLV-3 a "indigenous" design which is copy of Scout then Chinese have every wright to call their J-7E "indigenous" design.

 

[xman]

If we had copied western technology, we wouldn't be sending sattelites at lowest costs. Secondly, why don't you people understand that there is a difference between transfer of technology and providing the equipments based on some technology only to use.

and some random guy comes up with the claims that our missile program and space program is an exact copy of or copied from abroad. We do use equipments but we do not copy them.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Don't make write an essay. You seem to be handy with Google, use it.

Actually if you have not bothered to research but let me enlighten you that J-11 externally almost the same as Su-27, and Su-30 or in another word a copy. However majority of the avionics radar electronic systems etc are of Chinese origin and some are partially based on Russian technologies.
Externally J-7E has more Chinese input then in J-11. I am not aware of much about Chinese input internally but i assume J-11 has more Chinese input then J-7E as J-11 has alot alot more systems inboard then J-7E.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If we had copied western technology, we wouldn't be sending sattelites at lowest costs. Secondly, why don't you people understand that there is a difference between transfer of technology and providing the equipments based on some technology only to use.

and some random guy comes up with the claims that our missile program and space program is an exact copy of or copied from abroad. We do use equipments but we do not copy them.

I think you are a new guy to this thread but most of your questions or lets say confusions have already been answered. Go through the pages the answer is their.

 

[xman]

I think you are a new guy to this thread but most of your questions or lets say confusions have already been answered. Go through the pages the answer is their.

i dont see any answers regarding what i have written ... u are just criticising our developments, thats all what i can read.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i dont see any answers regarding what i have written ... u are just criticising our developments, thats all what i can read.

You are just too lazy to find my answers from a lengthy thread. At least show some effort from your part only then I may think about wasting my time with you then.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What a fake and funny enlightenment.

Chinese radars?? Which even pakistan is reluctant to buy for JF 17.

You are Degrading the reputation of MKI by comparing it to duplicate (chinese maal as usual) J-11 and that too with a 3rd grade chinese radar and avionics.

This is not a gutter snip street junk talk show like bharatraksaw where you came from.

 

[xman]

You are just too lazy to find my answers from a lengthy thread. At least show some effort from your part only then I may think about wasting my time with you then.

if you are hardworking you quote it for me.

secondly, i have told you there is difference between giving equipments to use and transfering a technology.

and for your well information ..ISRO has been investing in developing a patent portfolio, which now consists of 254 patents, 35 copyrights and 10 trademarks. Even in this area, while ISRO's objective has been to safeguard the technologies developed in ISRO Centres, simultaneously, the approach has been to enable maximam commercial exploitation of such resources through appropriate technology transfers or licensing schemes.