India to Purchase of 145 Ultra-Light Howitzers from USA

[Lankan Ranger]

India to Purchase of 145 Ultra-Light Howitzers from USA

The government has authorised an outright purchase of 145 ultra-light howitzers from the US, a highly-placed defence ministry source said today.The ultra-light howitzers are for the mountain artillery divisions of the Indian Army to be used in high-altitude frontiers opposite Pakistan and China. They can be transported slung from some helicopters.

The defence acquisitions committee has decided to take the foreign military sales route. Foreign military sales is a US programme of government-to-government sales of military hardware bypassing a lengthy system of competitive bidding. But bidders who lose out to foreign military sales orders allege that the system lacks transparency.“We will also look at other options,” defence secretary Pradeep Kumar said.

The Indian Air Force has taken the foreign military sales route to contract six Lockheed Martin-made Hercules C130J air lifters and the army did the same to buy artillery fire-finding radars.Two brands of ultra-light howitzers were initially in contention for the Indian Army’s estimated $2.5-billion artillery modernisation programme — ST Kinetics’ Pegasus and BAE Land Systems’ M777 made in the US.

BAE Land Systems has bought over the erstwhile Swedish firm Bofors that sold 410 155mm howitzers to India in 1986. The army has not bought a single big gun since the last of the Bofors howitzer was delivered in 1987, 22 years back.ST Kinetics was blacklisted this year after the company figured in investigations into the deals struck by the former director general of the Ordnance Factory Board in Calcutta. The government has lifted the bar on trials in multiple-vendor situations.

If the government takes the foreign military sales route, the order is likely to go to BAE Land Systems. The source said the defence acquisitions council authorised the foreign military sales route before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to the US last month.The army wants to buy 145 ultra-light howitzers, 158 towed and wheeled, 100 tracked, and 180 wheeled and armoured guns in the first phase as part of its field artillery rationalisation plan, the programme to upgrade its artillery divisions.

Defence secretary Pradeep Kumar said the government has speeded up the buying of military hardware. Between 2007 and 2009, a total of 465 contracts have been signed. These are worth more than Rs 1,35,000 crore.He said in 10 years, the defence ministry had doubled the capital expenditure for new acquisitions. The acquisitions were worth Rs 62,272 crore between 1999 and 2004. They total Rs 1,37,496 crore between 2004 and 2009. In the current year (2009-2010), Rs 41,000 crore was being spent on direct capital acquisitions.The acquisitions have included Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control Systems, Sukhoi 30MKI fighter aircraft, aircraft for VIPs, missiles of different types and tanks.

ASIAN DEFENCE: India to Purchase of 145 Ultra-Light Howitzers from USA

 

[Hulk]

I posted this yesterday, finally we are getting something. I also heard that they might increase the number from 145 to more.

 

[Hulk]

M777 howitzer
This is what we are getting, I pray for more then 145.

 

[Dark Angel]

India to Purchase of 145 Ultra-Light Howitzers from USA

The government has authorised an outright purchase of 145 ultra-light howitzers from the US, a highly-placed defence ministry source said today.The ultra-light howitzers are for the mountain artillery divisions of the Indian Army to be used in high-altitude frontiers opposite Pakistan and China. They can be transported slung from some helicopters.

The defence acquisitions committee has decided to take the foreign military sales route. Foreign military sales is a US programme of government-to-government sales of military hardware bypassing a lengthy system of competitive bidding. But bidders who lose out to foreign military sales orders allege that the system lacks transparency.“We will also look at other options,” defence secretary Pradeep Kumar said.

The Indian Air Force has taken the foreign military sales route to contract six Lockheed Martin-made Hercules C130J air lifters and the army did the same to buy artillery fire-finding radars.Two brands of ultra-light howitzers were initially in contention for the Indian Army’s estimated $2.5-billion artillery modernisation programme — ST Kinetics’ Pegasus and BAE Land Systems’ M777 made in the US.

BAE Land Systems has bought over the erstwhile Swedish firm Bofors that sold 410 155mm howitzers to India in 1986. The army has not bought a single big gun since the last of the Bofors howitzer was delivered in 1987, 22 years back.ST Kinetics was blacklisted this year after the company figured in investigations into the deals struck by the former director general of the Ordnance Factory Board in Calcutta. The government has lifted the bar on trials in multiple-vendor situations.

If the government takes the foreign military sales route, the order is likely to go to BAE Land Systems. The source said the defence acquisitions council authorised the foreign military sales route before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to the US last month.The army wants to buy 145 ultra-light howitzers, 158 towed and wheeled, 100 tracked, and 180 wheeled and armoured guns in the first phase as part of its field artillery rationalisation plan, the programme to upgrade its artillery divisions.

Defence secretary Pradeep Kumar said the government has speeded up the buying of military hardware. Between 2007 and 2009, a total of 465 contracts have been signed. These are worth more than Rs 1,35,000 crore.He said in 10 years, the defence ministry had doubled the capital expenditure for new acquisitions. The acquisitions were worth Rs 62,272 crore between 1999 and 2004. They total Rs 1,37,496 crore between 2004 and 2009. In the current year (2009-2010), Rs 41,000 crore was being spent on direct capital acquisitions.The acquisitions have included Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control Systems, Sukhoi 30MKI fighter aircraft, aircraft for VIPs, missiles of different types and tanks.

ASIAN DEFENCE: India to Purchase of 145 Ultra-Light Howitzers from USA

The M777 is smaller and 42% lighter, at under 4,100 kg (9,000 lb), than the M198 it replaces

The M777 uses a digital fire-control system similar to that found on self propelled howitzers such as the M109A6 Paladin

The gun crew required is an Operational Minimum of 5, compared to a usual size of 9

 

[jha]

145 is more likely for press...the actual no. may be ~500. but again its more of my wish....feel free to disagree

 

[DeathGod]

M777 howitzer
This is what we are getting, I pray for more then 145.

Well it may look like a decent acquisition but I have my doubts.

For starters the type of ammunition that will be needed. What I have gathered from wiki is that the range of this howitzer is 40km if used with Excalibur rounds which are GPS guided. Now these rounds are definitely very potent but the cost of these rounds is anywhere from 50-85k$ . This seems to be very costly to me.

Lets do the maths : 145 howitzers , for each lets buy 50 rounds and keep the cost at 50k we will get around 365 million $ . Now I regard these figures as very conservative , add with these the costs of training the crews to operate a device , the cost will be close to a billion. That is a lot for me.

I would be thankful if someone knowledgable can throw some light on the typical ammo: artilery piece ratio that a standard army keeps and the total costs of induction ( including training etc).

Also I dont know if IA will have vehicles to transport these and if so is the case then the cost will go further up. As these are just 145 pieces I think that these will not form a lot many batteries ( as needed by IA) and though these will be confined to NWE and JAK i wonder if the number is sufficient to fulfill the needs.Can anyone substantiate if this number will be enough?

It will be great if someone can throw some light on some of the points mentioned above.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Seems like a good weapon to defend one's frontier. India has a very long set of northern frontiers. What is the range of this weapon? How many km of a border would one "command"?

 

[Hulk]

This is not the only gun we are buying. The intial number was more then 145 but they divided it seems. The other guns I do not know, this news is true for sure, they are probably also buying a truck which can host the gun.

 

[sudhir007]

Singapore firm may lose Army contract to US

With defence giant Singapore Technologies (ST) still in trouble due to the ongoing CBI investigation into charges of bribing Indian officials, a mega Army contract valued at more than $1 billion seems to be heading the American way.

A top defence official has said the Defence Ministry is looking at other options, including a direct military purchase from the US, for the ultra light 155 mm howitzer contract in which ST was the only contender.

Making it clear that the procurement — the Army urgently requires 145 of the light mountain guns for deployment on the China and Pakistan borders — has gone into deep freeze, the official said trials for the gun would not be carried out as per the advice of the Law Ministry.

As reported earlier, the MoD had last month allowed trials in cases where tainted defence firms are contenders, as long as it was a multiple-vendor situation. This has again quashed ST’s hopes that its gun would be tested for the ultra light contest. The ST gun, which was under shipment for trials when the CBI arrested former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh, is currently lying idle in Pokharan.
Defence Ministry officials said given the urgent requirement of the Army and the legal deadlock over ST, a direct military purchase could be a viable option. “We are looking at other options. We are looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) option which was cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC),” a top official said.

If the MoD decides to take the FMS route, the Indian Army will go in for the M 777 ultra light Howitzer that is being used by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The gun, which is owned by British firm BAR Systems, is the only other artillery system suited to the Indian Army.

While the BAE gun had been called to take part in the trial, the company did not participate in the contest, which many considered would be one-sided given the list of technical requirements drawn up by the Army.

However, insiders say another option, that of a direct military sale of the ST gun from Singapore, could be pursued by the Ministry. This direct government-to-government sale would also take care of legal problems being faced in negotiating directly with a tainted firm like ST.

 

[gogbot]

Singapore firm may lose Army contract to US

With defence giant Singapore Technologies (ST) still in trouble due to the ongoing CBI investigation into charges of bribing Indian officials, a mega Army contract valued at more than $1 billion seems to be heading the American way.

A top defence official has said the Defence Ministry is looking at other options, including a direct military purchase from the US, for the ultra light 155 mm howitzer contract in which ST was the only contender.

Making it clear that the procurement — the Army urgently requires 145 of the light mountain guns for deployment on the China and Pakistan borders — has gone into deep freeze, the official said trials for the gun would not be carried out as per the advice of the Law Ministry.

As reported earlier, the MoD had last month allowed trials in cases where tainted defence firms are contenders, as long as it was a multiple-vendor situation. This has again quashed ST’s hopes that its gun would be tested for the ultra light contest. The ST gun, which was under shipment for trials when the CBI arrested former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh, is currently lying idle in Pokharan.
Defence Ministry officials said given the urgent requirement of the Army and the legal deadlock over ST, a direct military purchase could be a viable option. “We are looking at other options. We are looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) option which was cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC),” a top official said.

If the MoD decides to take the FMS route, the Indian Army will go in for the M 777 ultra light Howitzer that is being used by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The gun, which is owned by British firm BAR Systems, is the only other artillery system suited to the Indian Army.

While the BAE gun had been called to take part in the trial, the company did not participate in the contest, which many considered would be one-sided given the list of technical requirements drawn up by the Army.

However, insiders say another option, that of a direct military sale of the ST gun from Singapore, could be pursued by the Ministry. This direct government-to-government sale would also take care of legal problems being faced in negotiating directly with a tainted firm like ST.

You know i think everyone is beyond caring what artillery as long as we get new artillery.

 

[Iggy]

nice to see India's artillary jinx has gone..this one is mainly for the mountain devision we raised right??it will be a boost for defence is mountain terrain ..

 

[faithfulguy]

Indian finally do something right and buy from the US. Now, it need to do more.

 

[Kinshuk]

Indian finally do something right and buy from the US. Now, it need to do more.

Lol! you are a great supporter of states. aren't you?

 

[faithfulguy]

Lol! you are a great supporter of states. aren't you?

No, I'm actually helping India out. In 30 years, you will realize that India make mistakes when it does not work closer with the US. By that time, India would need to allie itself with the west or become a junior partner to China. Your kids would be boasting about China like how the pakistani are doing in here.

Look at Capenhagen, it sided with China against the US.

 

[Iggy]

No, I'm actually helping India out. In 30 years, you will realize that India make mistakes when it does not work closer with the US. By that time, India would need to allie itself with the west or become a junior partner to China. Your kids would be boasting about China like how the pakistani are doing in here.

Look at Capenhagen, it sided with China against the US.

For god sake please dont hijack this thread too with your weird logic..my countrys government knows what they are doing ...and for god sake dont start another front for China-India dick measurement ..