India to order rafale F4 in 2022 after 36 F3 deiivered

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

I am not favor go beyond 72 numbers.
As said, it is providing breathing space to multiple assets and programs.

1. Hal Tejas mk2
2. Su 30 mki upgrade.. Etc

But, focus should by only on Hal tejas mk2 and productions.

Then, enough breathing time for AMCA project..

True prioties should be for local fighters but situation on borders will dictate all future purchases, India PSUs are incompetent specially in production front.
IAF will not wait for MK2 for a decade future purchases of Rafales are almost certain going by history of Tejas productions.
If HAL could have given stable production of 16 Tejas IAF would have happily increased orders for even Tejas MK1 but till now they hardly reach 6 to 8.
I dont think this situation is likely to improve in future PSUs are very inefficient I keep on hearing from Hal babus we dont have more orders to go higher on prod numbers but this is pretty hollow argument 16 Tejas an year would have increased much confidence in Iaf to increase their orders.
Even Tejas MK1s could provide much better performance than Mig 21 bison

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

J31 can be provided when needed。
View attachment 766997

As said, only F22/f35 are truly capable 5 gen fighter's, presently.

If you can transfer the money to US for supplying any one of their 5th Gen fighter planes to India. It will be helpful..

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

True prioties should be for local fighters but situation on borders will dictate all future purchases, India PSUs are incompetent specially in production front.
IAF will not wait for MK2 for a decade future purchases of Rafales are almost certain going by history of Tejas productions.
If HAL could have given stable production of 16 Tejas IAF would have happily increased orders for even Tejas MK1 but till now they hardly reach 6 to 8.
I dont think this situation is likely to improve in future PSUs are very inefficient I keep on hearing from Hal babus we dont have more orders to go higher on prod numbers but this is pretty hollow argument 16 Tejas an year would be increased much confidence in Iaf to increase their orders.
Even Tejas MK1s could provide much better performance than Mig 21 bison

As per my understanding, all about your own requirements.

HAL Tejas MK1A - We will start getting from the 2023 year ends. It is having a similar capability as JF 17 Block 3 but the roles are different in both airforces.

HAL Tejas Mk1a will be more than enough for a defense role. It should have Astra -2 AA missiles range over 150 KM.

HAL Tejas Mk2 - Now it should be a game-changer for IAF. It should almost be at par with Rafale and will be used for both offense or defense. It Should start coming from 2027 onwards.... they are telling from 2024 but I do not trust HAL... will be delayed at least 3-4 years.

Su 30 MKI upgrade: it should be upgraded with the latest AESA radar and AA missiles with range over 150 KM. It will be good to have against the Chinese airforce with the flavor of Rafale Aircarfts.
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All will give much breathing space to AMCA program. They can take much time & start testing & production from 2030 or somewhere..

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

As per my understanding, all about your own requirements.

HAL Tejas MK1A - We will start getting from the 2013 year ends. It is having a similar capability as JF 17 Block 3 but the roles are different in both airforces.

Tejas MK1A should get one or more fighters by 2023 seems over optimistic but yes there are chances Hal might surprise us.
Regarding comparison with JF BKL3 i dont think one on one JF Blk3 is comparable in case of A2A or A2G capabilities Tejas Mk1A with much stable engine and better Aesa and sensor suits plus better weapon suits should trump blk3 7 out of 10 times.
Tejas Mk1a will have lower RCS using much higher level of composite materials than BLk3.

HAL Tejas Mk1a will be more than enough for a defense role. It should have Astra -2 AA missiles range over 150 KM.

MK1a should be ideal interceptor in place of Mig21 bison with the kind of sensor and weapon suit its getting it will easily be better than all non aesa fighters in interceptor roles.

HAL Tejas Mk2 - Now it should be a game-changer for IAF. It should almost be at par with Rafale and will be used for both offense or defense. It Should start coming from 2027 onwards.... they are telling from 2024 but I do not trust HAL... will be delayed at least 3-4 years.

Mostly agree but Rafale comes with spectra. India's own mayavi doesnt come close to that I think Rafale will remain top of food chain unless true 5th gen arrives in India

Su 30 MKI upgrade: it should be upgraded with the latest AESA radar and AA missiles with range over 150 KM. It will be good to have against the Chinese airforce with the flavor of Rafale Aircarfts.
-----------------------------

All will give much breathing space to AMCA program. They can take much time & start testing & production from 2030 or somewhere..

MKI upgrade will be very costly radar and weapon suit aside more work will be required on airframe and sensor suits plus if we can get hands on newer ruski engines MKi will get a turbo boost.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

MKI upgrade will be very costly radar and weapon suit aside more work will be required on airframe and sensor suits plus if we can get hands on newer ruski engines MKi will get a turbo boost.

Su 30 Mki has lots of room to upgrade. I don't mind if 20-30 Million per aircraft for the upgrade but the Airframe life should be extended more than 25 years.

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

Su 30 Mki has lots of room to upgrade. I don't mind if 20-30 Million per aircraft for the upgrade but the Airframe life should be extended more than 25 years.

Sure we military fans wont mind 20-30 mil per aircraft but 30 mil per aircraft is around 10 billion plus cost on simple upgrades excluding follow up support.
I think MKI will not be getting newer engines or airframe module changes as part of MLU the life extensions with overall airframe overhaul will be done sometime later.
At most 10 mil per craft should be target for now

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Sure we military fans wont mind 20-30 mil per aircraft but 30 mil per aircraft is around 10 billion plus cost on simple upgrades excluding follow up support.
I think MKI will not be getting newer engines or airframe module changes as part of MLU the life extensions with overall airframe overhaul will be done sometime later.
At most 10 mil per craft should be target for now

Depends, how do you think!!

you are ready to 80-100 Million for Rafale, 40 Million for Tejas, and more than 50 Million for Tejas 2..... AMCA - should be more.

Su 30 Mki is a proven platform and has lots of available room for up-gradation. Also, it can serve up to 2040/50..

it will be better to do the upgrade compare to going for any new imported Aircraft and that will cost more than 80 Million..

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

Depends, who do you think!!

you are ready to 80-100 Million for Rafale, 40 Million for Tejas, and more than 50 Million for Tejas 2..... AMCA - should be more.

Su 30 Mki is a proven platform and has lots of available room for up-gradation. Also, it can serve up to 2040/50..

it will be better to do the upgrade compare to going for any new imported Aircraft and that will cost more than 80 Million..

MkI is very costly to operate per hour and maintenance to per hour sortie rate is also one of the highest in the world.
Russian engines are not very fuel efficient and many times engine replacements are required thats why IAF is not keen on any extra MKIs.
One of the reason IAF is looking for western platforms or western engine based platform is the lessons it has learnt from operating MKIs.
Thats why IAF is not keen on airframe overhaul for now as composite materials will further increase the maintenance and cost of operations.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam


It makes sense for the Indians to do it. Had the situation not changed drastically between the Indians and the Chinese, Pakistan would have been in a lot of stress than it is.

The Indians now understand that the situation with China looks ling term and not something that can be ignored.

The Indian air force was certainly sufficient for Pakistan alone, however, it is very much lacking when compared to the Chinese. Add to it the 'two front' war situation that may have started to look like a real possibility to the Indians, I'd expect a lot more spending on buying hardware.

In any case, it will not cause too much headache in Pakistan for now because of the Chinese factor.

 

[Black Tornado]

Domestic manufacturing should be promoted so that each Rupee spent on buying weapons goes back to our economy and we are able to buy more.

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

Salaam


It makes sense for the Indians to do it. Had the situation not changed drastically between the Indians and the Chinese, Pakistan would have been in a lot of stress than it is.

The Indians now understand that the situation with China looks ling term and not something that can be ignored.

The Indian air force was certainly sufficient for Pakistan alone, however, it is very much lacking when compared to the Chinese. Add to it the 'two front' war situation that may have started to look like a real possibility to the Indians, I'd expect a lot more spending on buying hardware.

In any case, it will not cause too much headache in Pakistan for now because of the Chinese factor.

More of less true on Indian situation but Pak establishment getting a respite from Indo China situation is not true.
Pak military will not make future plan based upon India keeping Rafale fleet for china only roles.
When Pak establishment will buy weapons it will consider Indian capabilities as a whole.
Otherwise it will be very foolish to do so.
Specially when Indo China war theatre is very close to Indo Pak one.
A Rafale can carry out CAP in a single sortie from any north Indian base to both Ladakh and Jammu & Kashmir not lots of air distance between these places.
Ideally if a S400 long range radar is placed on PirPanjal top it can effectively scan the area closer to KPK and Aksai Chin.

 

[Indos]

IAF will not wait for MK2 for a decade future purchases of Rafales are almost certain going by history of Tejas productions.
If HAL could have given stable production of 16 Tejas IAF would have happily increased orders for even Tejas MK1 but till now they hardly reach 6 to 8.
I dont think this situation is likely to improve in future PSUs are very inefficient I keep on hearing from Hal babus we dont have more orders to go higher on prod numbers but this is pretty hollow argument 16 Tejas an year would have increased much confidence in Iaf to increase their orders.
Even Tejas MK1s could provide much better performance than Mig 21 bison

HAL has already got a deal with GE to buy 100 F 404 engine for Tejas MKIA, so definitely there will be 100 more Tejas order from Indian Air Force.

 

[Trailer23]

If pakistan can't buy anything that it's your sad state of affairs , don't show your butt hurt here .

Calling names and all is the strong hold of pakistani memebers , cause new fighter for paf doctrine to aa nahi rha

Awww..., what's the matter, did my post hurt your feelings ?

Just yesterday it was revealed that we've bought 10 Sea King Choppers from Qatar & delivery already started last month before the news broke out this month (August).

IAF may be buying new jets, but it isn't fast enough to replace the ones that are already dead on the tarmac.

You seem to have a lot of confidence in your Air Force, even though they haven't truly perform at anything other than being mediocre. Having shiny new toys in numbers won't win you d!ck.

Hope the next time PAF-IAF tango, you guys will have the balls to send your new Bhagwaan. So we can put that on the shelf next to its predecessor - Su-30MKi.

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

HAL has already got a deal with GE to buy 100 F 404 engine for Tejas MKIA, so definitely there will be 100 more Tejas order from Indian Air Force.

Yes Tejas MK1 has 40 orders(24 SPs are produced till now) Airforce has 21 in service)

TEJAS MK1A has got 83 orders with production to start from 2023 onwards.

I am talking about slow production rate of Tejas MK1 here if Hal could have produced 16 a year from 2017 onwards MK1 order definately be increased from original 40 to much more providing earlier replacements for Mig21s.

 

[The Maverick]

Io don't underestimate plaaf has a whole
they are a near super power.
but the chinease military is 80 percent located and geared to fight South East China against Japan usa Korea or Russia in North....

the ladakh air power is,less than 200 planes
with s400 arriving in 3 months Rafale here and more likely I think.india can handle plaaf in a short war not more than 2 or 3 weeks..

s400 will.give India huge blanket to divert resources between pakistan and border and China. in war scenario

s400 on it's own.makes pre emotive strikes really difficult especially for pakistan who have no hi end 4th gen or 5th gen.strike options