India to order rafale F4 in 2022 after 36 F3 deiivered

[Indos]

Yes Tejas MK1 has 40 orders(24 SPs are produced till now) Airforce has 21 in service)

TEJAS MK1A has got 83 orders with production to start from 2023 onwards.

I am talking about slow production rate of Tejas MK1 here if Hal could have produced 16 a year from 2017 onwards MK1 order definately be increased from original 40 to much more providing earlier replacements for Mig21s.

Does HAL facility for Tejas use robotic already ?, Here in Indonesia Aerospace we have already got robotic hands for KF 21/IFX program

HAL IMO just dont want to invest yet by seeing the previous order of Tejas, but I believe with that 100 firm orders they will likely invest more on their production facility

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

Does HAL facility for Tejas use robotic already ?, Here in Indonesia Aerospace we have already got robotic hands for KF 21/IFX program
HAL IMO just dont want to invest yet by seeing the previous order of Tejas, but I believe with that 100 firm orders that will likely invest more on their production facility

With kind of precision required in fighter plane manufacturing robotics usages are not an option but a mandatory requirements specially when micron level integrations are required.
HAL has good experience and established production lines from the days of Mig21s to Sukhois with all the support they required as far as resource requirements still Su30 MKI production rarely went beyond a dozen in an year.
South Korea will ofcourse not only have much advance manufacturing robotics but also much better work culture and efficiency so Indonesia is in good hands no comparison with Hal even if they get all automated processes some Hal babu will find a way to delay the fully automated process.

 

[Indos]

With kind of precision required in fighter plane manufacturing robotics usages are not an option but a mandatory requirements specially when micron level integrations are required.
HAL has good experience and established production lines from the days of Mig21s to Sukhois with all the support they required as far as resource requirements still Su30 MKI production rarely went beyond a dozen in an year.
South Korea will ofcourse not only have much advance manufacturing robotics but also much better work culture and efficiency so Indonesia is in good hands no comparison with Hal even if they get all automated processes some Hal babu will find a way to delay the fully automated process.

How many employees HAL has ? I think their production rate is quite good but of course you cannot compare with LM. The main problem with HAL is the delay on the program development like happening with Tejas.

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

How many employees HAL has ? I think their production rate is quite good but of course you cannot compare with LM. The main problem with HAL is the delay on the program development like happening with Tejas.

Product development is not Hal forte
We have ADA doing the design work
GTRE for propulsion
BHel for avionics and chip manufacturing for defense
Issue is coming in low level of Serial Production from Hal I am talking abt pre pandemic rate.
HAL is a behemoth over 30k on payrolls but as all Govt PSUs the work culture and politics is pathetic pushing prod rates too low.
I am pretty sure if a private titan company in India get same Hal prod line the production rates will jump twice with in an year. Its all about how much pressure you have to perform that matters Hal being a govt run will have thr jobs secure but same is not true in priv cos

 

[Zarvan]

News,is breaking all.over indian defense circles,that Acm bhaduria has approached mod to start process of ordering the F4 Rafale in next 3 to 6 months .

26 of the first 36 rafales have arrived in India
the remaining 10 will be delivered by January 2022

The articles,below predict likely contracts in 2022 with delivery starting 2024 to 2025

I have also read at few places that India could order 36 more rafale.

 

[Wood]

France is very very keen supply india with more rafale an is offering assembly in NAGPUR india

One can only hope that HAL is not asked to run assembly plants for Rafael. The MKIs made by HAL are more expensive and are said to be of lesser quality than those that are made in Russia. India cannot let the same problems plague Rafael in the future.

 

[Wood]

It is unlikely for IAF to go with additional Rafales. While IAF definitely wants it, the economic slowdown will hinder any major approvals...particularly something as big as a Rafale tender costing in excess of $7bn

I've always harbored a notion that Indians have paid 100 INR for petrol for the past few years to pay for these fancy jets

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

More of less true on Indian situation but Pak establishment getting a respite from Indo China situation is not true.
Pak military will not make future plan based upon India keeping Rafale fleet for china only roles.
When Pak establishment will buy weapons it will consider Indian capabilities as a whole.
Otherwise it will be very foolish to do so.
Specially when Indo China war theatre is very close to Indo Pak one.
A Rafale can carry out CAP in a single sortie from any north Indian base to both Ladakh and Jammu & Kashmir not lots of air distance between these places.
Ideally if a S400 long range radar is placed on PirPanjal top it can effectively scan the area closer to KPK and Aksai Chin.

I think I miscommunicated my point earlier. I don't mean it wouldn't matter to Pakistani planners, it certainly should and hopefully will.

What I meant was that, if the China factor wasn't there you'd see Pakistan getting into reactionary purchasing etc. However, now I think Pakistan will follow the timelines they have currently set for themselves. This order would not force too much in the way of strategic planning imho.

With regards to the Chinese military being geared towards their eastern side, I think in an event of war the Chinese will likely quickly be able to relocate their assets where needed. They've been setting up newer airbases as well upgrading for some time now.

 

[The Maverick]

Salaam




I think I miscommunicated my point earlier. I don't mean it wouldn't matter to Pakistani planners, it certainly should and hopefully will.

What I meant was that, if the China factor wasn't there you'd see Pakistan getting into reactionary purchasing etc. However, now I think Pakistan will follow the timelines they have currently set for themselves. This order would not force too much in the way of strategic planning imho.

With regards to the Chinese military being geared towards their eastern side, I think in an event of war the Chinese will likely quickly be able to relocate their assets where needed. They've been setting up newer airbases as well upgrading for some time now.

pakistan has virtually acted with zero response,to both Rafale and s400 arrivals to date . They have known about both systems arriving for 4 years

China can move Assets to himlayers but at seriously weakening their poise against usa and it's allies in South East Asia

 

[Yasser76]

4 pages on "news" not confirmed by anyone in press?

Mods who have locked this thread ages ago if a Pakistani user posted about "J-10C confirmed" without a reliable source.

 

[Black Tornado]

4 pages on "news" not confirmed by anyone in press?

Mods who have locked this thread ages ago if a Pakistani user posted about "J-10C confirmed" without a reliable source.

India Today reported yesterday

 

[Yasser76]

India Today reported yesterday

Link, or you just adding to the BS on this thread?

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

Salaam




I think I miscommunicated my point earlier. I don't mean it wouldn't matter to Pakistani planners, it certainly should and hopefully will.

What I meant was that, if the China factor wasn't there you'd see Pakistan getting into reactionary purchasing etc. However, now I think Pakistan will follow the timelines they have currently set for themselves. This order would not force too much in the way of strategic planning imho.

With regards to the Chinese military being geared towards their eastern side, I think in an event of war the Chinese will likely quickly be able to relocate their assets where needed. They've been setting up newer airbases as well upgrading for some time now.

I think Pakistani establishment are already in process to acquire long range Sams and J-10c doing quite a item nowadays so yes Pak military is doing whatever reactionary purchases they can do.
Regarding Chinese yes they have openly on PRC media on very high level has told to invest lots on occupied Tibet and occupied East Turkmenistan regions against India.
India is doing similar investments in Ladakh and North East. Regarding moving assets I dont think Himalayan ranges offers any advantages PLa has in armour numbers to be exploited it will be mostly Air deployments for which surely India needs to buy foreign fighters Rafales and may be more Rafales.

 

[Windjammer]

So the so called Raptor of the East is a thing of the past and in hindsight, we all know why.
Let's see in IAF hands what impact the new French jet will make.
So far it only has the history of conducting some ground strikes against no air opposition.
Even our JF-17 has better record of an air to air kill of a spy drone.

 

[FAmbMkBhadarkumar]

So the so called Raptor of the East is a thing of the past and in hindsight, we all know why.
Let's see in IAF hands what impact the new French jet will make.
So far it only has the history of conducting some ground strikes against no air opposition.
Even our JF-17 has better record of an air to air kill of a spy drone.

SU 30MKI proved its worth when providing air cover to Mirage 2000s on 26th feb no Paf fighter despite on high alert ventured near Indian Air strike package all thanks to Su30MKIs.
On 27th Feb IAF despite being outnumbered challanged Paf strike package where was the Paf on 26th feb despite being on full alert.
India crossed LOC on 26th no Paf fighter came to chase when Pakistan tried IAF gave challange and F16 retreated well with in thr borders by the time Iaf send MKIs to match the numbers.
And why do you forget whole Pakistani airspace was close for next 4 months this was the panic level in Pakistan.
And this chai chai routine is getting old now boring.