India strikes back at nuclear protesters

[samrat]

@Rocky25: Assuming that you are a Tamil, whats Jayalalitha doing to overcome the power shortages in TN and also whats her game plan for KKNPP protests.

 

[Rocky25]

@Rocky25: Assuming that you are a Tamil, whats Jayalalitha doing to overcome the power shortages in TN and also whats her game plan for KKNPP protests.

I am an Indian first and last! There are some group of people who will learn by themselves, some by learning from others... There are others who will learn by getting hit by the problem(Patta than puriyum!)

And most of the Tamils fall into the third category.... What I am suggesting is let them suffer!(But unfortunately people who supported the plant is also suffering and students are studying without lights, Which is pity!) and Jaya is doing exactly the same! Do her part in improving the safety of the plant and people, Unplug the source of the supply(Eriyuratha nirthuna pugaiyurathu thaana nikum!) and give enough problems to the people who revolt! So that they cannot concentrate on this problem! My guess is that she is waiting for by elections... She never voiced a single word against Power plant!

She is not an angel, But definitely done some 10% of what Modi did to Gujarat!

 

[trinity]

You cursed me that I am not give the credible link, But I asked link for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public". But you gave something else!

Nuclear plants are not 100% risk free, Everything in life is not risk free, We walking in the road too is risky nowadays! India should progress at the rapid rate, +2 students are writing exams now and current is being cut for every 30 minutes! I want 24/7/365 uninterrupted power supply!

Need plutonium for the country to develop its arsenal!

First of you misquote me.....its a little off. I have no problem with nuclear energy as I have previously stated so read my damn posts properly. I have told you to GOOGLE it yourself for the links....I even gave you hints....how such info was ousted during the NSG discussions in the US.


You completely ignored the fact the link I gave is from THE HINDU. If the gov;t really wants to nip this action then pay those ppl affected a good sum of money, provide jobs, provide free schooling for all their children, etc. Then I guarantee to you might not hear them bark, but till then they will protest coz the Indian govt aint doing anything to calm their fears. Instead the govt just wants to steamroll the porcess.

 

[Rocky25]

I have never misquoted you on any instance! Please see your original post!

Thats a lie. There are accidents occurring in these nuclear reactors, just no reported as publicly all the time and when it does come to the media, its very brief. A nuclear reactor does not have to melt down in order for it to cause untold damage. A simple link of hazardous chemicals into surrounding water is a tremendous concern. Such a leak will instantly cause cancer. How many poor fishermen can afford state of the art, or modern water filters? Even if you can, such filters are no defence against such chemicals....

You told you hold PhD and there are many scientific journals to prove your point! Till now you had not provided a single scientific paper link which proves that "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public"

Where had I told that you are against nuclear energy? You are accusing me for the words which I never told and diverting from the topic.

My one and only question to you is provide the link for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public", But instead you pasted a Hindu article... I never had any say on that and it is not the answer for my question.

So lets keep KISS (Keep It Simple and Stupid)

If your above quote is true, Provide me the link for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public"(I googled it and my simple graduate mind could not find anything!)

If your above quote is false, accept that you made the above point unknowingly!

So I expect the first line of your response as binary Yes or No!

 

[Rocky25]

Today Jaya met PM and requested for additional 1000 Mw of power for the state, It is like looking for ghee when some one have butter in hand! Anyway I think it is a political move to keep the opposition silent!

 

[Subramanian]

I am an Indian first and last! There are some group of people who will learn by themselves, some by learning from others... There are others who will learn by getting hit by the problem(Patta than puriyum!)

And most of the Tamils fall into the third category.... What I am suggesting is let them suffer!(But unfortunately people who supported the plant is also suffering and students are studying without lights, Which is pity!) and Jaya is doing exactly the same! Do her part in improving the safety of the plant and people, Unplug the source of the supply(Eriyuratha nirthuna pugaiyurathu thaana nikum!) and give enough problems to the people who revolt! So that they cannot concentrate on this problem! My guess is that she is waiting for by elections... She never voiced a single word against Power plant!

She is not an angel, But definitely done some 10% of what Modi did to Gujarat!

She can press the gas pedal or the brake pedal hard and strong as and when needed.

 

[trinity]

I have never misquoted you on any instance! Please see your original post!



You told you hold PhD and there are many scientific journals to prove your point! Till now you had not provided a single scientific paper link which proves that "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public"

Where had I told that you are against nuclear energy? You are accusing me for the words which I never told and diverting from the topic.

My one and only question to you is provide the link for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public", But instead you pasted a Hindu article... I never had any say on that and it is not the answer for my question.

So lets keep KISS (Keep It Simple and Stupid)

If your above quote is true, Provide me the link for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public"(I googled it and my simple graduate mind could not find anything!)

If your above quote is false, accept that you made the above point unknowingly!

So I expect the first line of your response as binary Yes or No!

No I told you to GOOGLE it yourself. If you didn;t find it, then you didn;t google hard enough. I gave you key words and a time frame. I provided enough links. An you stated you wont reply to my posts. So accept the truth and the reality. I cannot explain it to anymore simpler, stupid! I suggest you quote me properly if you are going to quote me. How come no mention of the HIndu? Do you read the newspaper everyday? Did you miss certain facts that showed how there was leakage, how some radioactive elements were found in the water? Did you ever ask yourself how there was no follow up? Did you think there might be a some govt suppression of facts?

Im not accussing you of anything.....I dont; have to. Its easy to go and edit and delete comments and posts but I dont; do such like you may. I stand by what I stated SIMPLE...got it? Think about it grad student why would anyone use a scientific paper to prove such evidence. All you need is a source to confirm such an incident occurred. if you quote me, make sure you quote the whole paragraph. I said there was a a leak of radioactice elements, there were cases of theft of radioactive element/substaces, etc. Get your facts straight. Dont; pick a fight you will lose.

 

[medulla]

This is for you and the other idiots who love to post nonsense yet have no clue.......from THE HINDU

The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : How Fukushima is relevant to Kudankulam


How Fukushima is relevant to Kudankulam

T. N. SRINIVASAN
T. S. GOPI RETHINARAJ
SURYA SETHI
SHARE · COMMENT (50) · PRINT · T+

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TOPICS
India
Tamil Nadu

disaster and accident
nuclear accident

energy and resource
nuclear power

The disaster in Japan revealed many risks that were earlier unknown; it is important to assess the risks in India in a transparent manner and explain which are worth taking.
The nuclear plant accident at Fukushima, Japan, in March 2011 exemplifies the prescient remark of nuclear reactor pioneer, the late Alvin Weinberg, that “a nuclear accident somewhere is a nuclear accident everywhere.” After Fukushima, many countries initiated a reconsideration of the role of nuclear power in their current and future energy portfolios and checks of their safety features at operating plants. Public demonstrations for halting ongoing construction of new plants and eliminating nuclear power altogether from energy portfolios also followed. Social demonstrations against the construction of any new nuclear power projects in India and a bringing on stream of the nearly complete Kudankulam plant in Tamil Nadu are parts of this phenomenon.

The Central government's attempts to assure the public of the safety of the Kudankulam plant failed and the demonstrations continued, leading the Tamil Nadu government to appoint an expert panel of four to assess afresh the safety of the plant. The committee submitted its report on February 27, 2012 which is as yet not released. A member of the panel, former Chairman M.R. Srinivasan of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), is quoted as saying that the Committee was fully satisfied that the plant was safe.

It remains to be seen whether the report is convincing and credible in coming to its conclusion, thus addressing public concerns about Kudankulam and also possibly blunting the threat to India's future nuclear power programme from escalating demonstrations. Concerns of risks of nuclear power, both from possible design faults in plants, their inappropriate location and from natural events such as earthquakes and tsunami have risen since Fukushima. The committee has to address these concerns effectively in a transparent manner in its report for it to serve its purpose of looking at the issues afresh regardless of the prior public positions of any of its members on them. While awaiting the report, we highlight what the Fukushima accident revealed on the previously unknown or underestimated risks and costs of nuclear power for the reason of their possible relevance for evaluating the risks and benefits of the expansion of nuclear power in India and the operation of Kudankulam.

ISSUES FROM FUKUSHIMA

The following is common knowledge about the Fukushima accident and its aftermath. First, it was triggered by a very rare natural event — the occurrence together of an earthquake of magnitude 9 on the Richter scale and a 15-metre tsunami which completely overwhelmed the plant and its safety systems. This raises the issue whether the probability of the event could or should have been anticipated or was ignored as unlikely by the Japanese regulatory authorities when the plant was designed, built and located at Fukushima.

Second, the analysts exposed the close ties between public regulators and the private plant operators that could have led them to collude and neglect safety and other features that could have been built into the design of the plant and affected responses to the accident and the timing and transparency of information released.

Third, although the physical structure of the Fukushima plant withstood the earthquake, together with the tsunami, the earthquake led to the loss of offsite and onsite power leaving the plant completely dependent on diesel generators and batteries of emergency cooling system for reactors. But adequate emergency power was not available at Fukushima. The consequential build-up of temperature resulted in production of steam and hydrogen that exploded rupturing the containment structure within a matter of hours and eventually led to a partial core meltdown.

Fourth, radiation leaks from the disabled plant spread far beyond what had been deemed likely, affected rice crops, milk and other products for domestic consumption and exports. The leaks and damages beyond the plant emphasised that containment structures have only a limited time-bound ability to mitigate the consequences of releases of radioactivity into the containment by overheated reactors coolant accidents until emergency cooling systems prevent further heating and a core meltdown. At Fukushima, emergency cooling systems failed and led to a partial core meltdown. Just a few hundred metric tonnes of steam could pose a serious threat to the containment's structural integrity of Kudankulam with its VVER-type reactor. It is therefore essential that cooling systems operate reliably and effectively.

A complete analysis of the Fukushima accident is not available yet. From what is available, it is known that radiation leaks affected crops and population and resulted in loss of output from disruptions in power supply. Kudankulam is located in the rice and milk producing, heavily populated and fast growing southern state of Tamil Nadu near Sri Lanka. The deleterious consequences of the Fukushima accident and the risks of their happening at Kudankulam are real. Obviously potential risks and their costs have to be weighed against potential benefits from the plant in a scientific, social cost/benefit analysis in evaluating whether or not to bring Kudankulam on stream and institutionalising such analyses in the nuclear decision-making process.

Fifth, emerging information on actions not taken but considered at Fukushima is disturbing: “in the darkest moments of the nuclear accident last year, Japanese leaders did not know the actual extent of the damage at the plant and secretly considered the possibility of evacuating Tokyo [350 km away from Fukushima], even as they played down the risks, an independent investigation into a report has disclosed”. (International Herald Tribune, February 29, 2012)

The panel's report should include estimates of the probabilities of earthquakes of magnitude greater than 6 and of tsunamis originating outside India that could threaten the Indian coast. Social cost/benefit analysis of alternative responses to very low probability events, which, were they to occur could inflict large social costs in terms of population loss, damages to structures and long term health consequences is a difficult analytical problem. However, to assure that the Kudankulam plant is “reasonably safe,” the panel should attempt the difficult social cost/benefit analysis and make public its methodology and assumptions. The uncertainties in the data used and in estimation errors induce an “error band” around the average social cost/benefits and these should be made explicit.

Superimposition of estimated probabilities of possible reactor accidents with site specific probabilities of earthquakes and tsunamis highlighted by Fukushima would enable the estimation of probabilities of a Fukushima-like event at Kudankulam.

REGULATORY INDEPENDENCE

The Fukushima accident highlighted the need for the independence of regulators from plant operators. The Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) has long been criticised for being subservient to DAE, the promoting organisation for nuclear power. After Fukushima, the establishment of a truly independent regulator has been promised. Currently, institutional deficiencies are structurally inbuilt and hard to eliminate. If they remain, the credibility and autonomy of the regulator cannot be ensured. Historically, nuclear policymaking in India was not transparent and involved only a handful of people in the government. The DAE has exploited this arrangement. Unfortunately, the political leadership left the operational aspects of nuclear affairs entirely to DAE without creating any institutional mechanism for independent technical and policy advice on civilian as well as military aspects.

A glaring example of DAE's misuse of the Atomic Energy Act to escape the scrutiny of regulator and courts over public safety concerns came in the wake of the still unpublished 1996 AERB report. The report is believed to have exposed how DAE had turned regulation into a farce because of the cosy arrangement between the regulators and the regulated. In India, all Indian nuclear plants are in the public sector and so are the agencies that exercise regulatory functions and promotional responsibilities. In this situation, conflict of interest between regulation and promotion is inevitable. Their separation and the creation of a statutory body for regulation are essential to win public confidence.

ENERGY PORTFOLIO

Significant shortfalls of India's energy generation relative to estimated energy demand have been longstanding. Many policy failures contributed to the shortfalls and their consequences. Amongst them, the failure to implement the Electricity Reform Act of 2003 ranks high. Legitimate concerns about global warming and energy security have driven the proposed expansion of nuclear power. As a poor country with a growing population with a need for rapid and sustained economic growth to eradicate poverty, India faces the daunting task of increasing its energy supply by a factor of two to three over the next two decades even after factoring in feasible conservation and efficiency improvements. Every possible source of energy (fossil, renewable, and nuclear) has to be considered without any a priori opposition to the use of any source in any credible social cost/benefit analysis of alternative energy portfolios in meeting development goals without pushing their risks beyond socially tolerable levels.

Understandable public concerns post-Fukushima pose enormous challenges for the planned expansion of nuclear electricity generation in India. Neither technological hubris nor shrill anti-nuclear rhetoric is useful in this context. For this reason the panel has to examine critically what Fukushima revealed that was not known before in terms of risks and social costs of a potential accident over a long term and offer its informed assessment of the extent Kudankulam and other future plants are subject to known and potentially new risks. Its assessment and judgment need to be transparent and explain which risks it considers worth taking and why.

We urge that due consideration be given also to issues that human frailties, potential natural disasters like earthquakes and tsunamis and acts of sabotage pose to the potential failure of well designed but complex engineering systems like a nuclear reactor. No humanly designed system can ensure that it will never fail — thus an option with zero risk does not exist. For this reason, a credible and convincing social cost benefit analysis of risks and benefits of current and available future energy options is essential.

(T.N. Srinivasan, T.S. Gopi Rethinaraj and Surya P. Sethi are on the faculty of the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy, National University of Singapore.)

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

This is why I have been arguing my case. Sad to see my Indian brothers are so blind for development, that you have forgotten your values.

Who is stupid u or me???? Rocky25 asked research article and creditable source have u provided that????

We are not asking those source to argue with u , we just want try to understand that real facts.For eg: If leakage would be Phosphate Isotopes means it will affect phophodiester bond in DNA and cause mutation wic leads to production of truncated product and it will create deleterious effects. It will affect phostosynthesis in plants becoz Phosphate system involvement(if u suspect any kind of leakage there is no need to study on humans just investigate plants and rodents in those regions that would be enough) so without proper research studies ur claim is baseless. Give proper source and argue don't try cheap shots.

 

[Rocky25]

if you quote me, make sure you quote the whole paragraph. I said there was a a leak of radioactice elements, there were cases of theft of radioactive element/substaces, etc. Get your facts straight. Dont; pick a fight you will lose.

You quoted this!

Thats a lie. There are accidents occurring in these nuclear reactors, just no reported as publicly all the time and when it does come to the media, its very brief. A nuclear reactor does not have to melt down in order for it to cause untold damage. A simple link of hazardous chemicals into surrounding water is a tremendous concern. Such a leak will instantly cause cancer. How many poor fishermen can afford state of the art, or modern water filters? Even if you can, such filters are no defence against such chemicals....

It means there is radioactive waste is coming out of nuclear power plants and it is causing cancer for people! For the next 6 pages you were telling the same and now you are backtracking!

I asked proof for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public" you had not provided anything, And Hindu does not speak anything about cancer!

All Indians, Please let me know whether my comprehension skill is bad and am I twisting anything! If I am right, support me, If I am wrong please point it out to me!

 

[trinity]

Who is stupid u or me???? Rocky25 asked research article and creditable source have u provided that????

We are not asking those source to argue with u , we just want try to understand that real facts.For eg: If leakage would be Phosphate Isotopes means it will affect phophodiester bond in DNA and cause mutation wic leads to production of truncated product and it will create deleterious effects. It will affect phostosynthesis in plants becoz Phosphate system involvement(if u suspect any kind of leakage there is no need to study on humans just investigate plants and rodents in those regions that would be enough) so without proper research studies ur claim is baseless. Give proper source and argue don't try cheap shots.

Funny how when i ask for such sources, the links given are anything but credibile research articles. In fact, he even sourced THE HINDU also. The information is there, just google it. I too have to research and learn the facts when something is presented and I am not sure. But every single post that I put up are facts ....and that is something you have to come ot grips with. Nobody hee is trying to realize what the facts are, get that thru your head. If that was so, then the first 5 pages would have made you sing a different tune. All you and others are trying to do is suppress information that is readily available. Its easy to see how none of you are posting any arguements that show the cons of such nuclear projects. Instead, all I hear is " in the name of development." You are asking me to provide proper research. First of, is that not the job of the state gov;t? How can the govt be trusted when it wont release all the question and all the supposed answers to the public? Secondly, you assume phospahte isotopes are the only culprit here, when there are many, many chemicals and heavy metals that can cause harm to us.

Without proper evidence, you guys are the ones pushing for development when w should all be pushing for answers So think about that. Got it?


For you to say, the study of rodents and plants would somehow point to a connection to human beings is a wrong notion to consider. There are many factors to consider. Did you ever consider the threshold for humans verus plants and animals? Did you now cockroaches can withstand 1000 x more radiation than humans? So that itself throws your arguement into a loop. And when Rocky goes on about Rad Tech friend who informed about Andra's spicy food contributing cancer, will point out more holes than swiss cheese.


The Hindu report I gave shows how the DAE in INdia blantanly misused and falunted regulations and laws. So think about that. The problem is that you, Rocky, and a bunch of other jokers are arguing for the sake of arguement without any validity. I will gladly admit fault if I am wrong. Like one poster stated, he knows the problems and safety concerns associated with nuclear energy in India, but India needs energy. I agreed but we can do it in a safer manner.



How many of you read the article in THE HINDU? It clearly points out hw the DAE and central gov;t flaunt the very rules, its supposed to obey and follow. Who suffers then?

 

[timetravel]

Guys this Trinity is not Indian. 90% either a chinese or 10% american but he is not Indian. So keep a watch on him. and dont waste time in replying to him.

 

[timetravel]

You quoted this!



It means there is radioactive waste is coming out of nuclear power plants and it is causing cancer for people! For the next 6 pages you were telling the same and now you are backtracking!

I asked proof for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public" you had not provided anything, And Hindu does not speak anything about cancer!

All Indians, Please let me know whether my comprehension skill is bad and am I twisting anything! If I am right, support me, If I am wrong please point it out to me!

you are 100% right bro. This Trinity is acting like typical Chinese. he is avoiding direct replies and giving twisting and roundabout replies and trying to be a self professing truth speaker.

I have followed ur replies and I can say definately that Trinity is avoiding you and his replies are useless and digressing.

 

[trinity]

You quoted this!



It means there is radioactive waste is coming out of nuclear power plants and it is causing cancer for people! For the next 6 pages you were telling the same and now you are backtracking!

I asked proof for "Radiation leak in nuclear power plants in India has caused cancer to normal public" you had not provided anything, And Hindu does not speak anything about cancer!

All Indians, Please let me know whether my comprehension skill is bad and am I twisting anything! If I am right, support me, If I am wrong please point it out to me!

Listen up and listen very clearly. You are reading and skipping a lot of information I have posted. You must be stupid to not see the association of radiation and/or heavy metals/chemicals to Cancer. Read any journal on medical science regarding cancer or just GOOGLE a reputable source about the confirmed carcinogens. If the Hindu points how the DAE ignored safety rules then what more do you need? DId you forget incidents of radiaoactive elements found floating in water coolers


Do you know the difference between Radioactive waste and Radioactive leak? I pointed out that there have reported cases of radioactive wastes/heavy metals but you want me to give you proof of Radioactive leak? I said a different statement but you wwant an anser to statement that you are framing on me. If you are so interested in finding the answer to YOUR QUESTION then google it yourself grad student otherwise you are talking cheap

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------

Guys this Trinity is not Indian. 90% either a chinese or 10% american but he is not Indian. So keep a watch on him. and dont waste time in replying to him.

Im malu from Kerala....you knwo the same place where tamils state their dam will last 1000 yrs?

 

[trinity]

you are 100% right bro. This Trinity is acting like typical Chinese. he is avoiding direct replies and giving twisting and roundabout replies and trying to be a self professing truth speaker.

I have followed ur replies and I can say definately that Trinity is avoiding you and his replies are useless and digressing.

Before you accusing me of anything. Read all the posts. You seem to note that I am avoiding him. Yet, you cannot find an instance of avoidance on numerous posts with evidence from him? Biased dont; you think? So you have followed his replies but you cant read the stuff I am writing. Let me ask you, am I writing something bad? Or something good? If you were reading these posts with a clear conscience then you would see that is not what I wrote. If you going to quote me, then quote me properly otherwise you are lying to yourself and to the other posters.

 

[timetravel]

Listen up and listen very clearly. You are reading and skipping a lot of information I have posted. You must be stupid to not see the association of radiation and/or heavy metals/chemicals to Cancer. Read any journal on medical science regarding cancer or just GOOGLE a reputable source about the confirmed carcinogens. If the Hindu points how the DAE ignored safety rules then what more do you need? DId you forget incidents of radiaoactive elements found floating in water coolers


Do you know the difference between Radioactive waste and Radioactive leak? I pointed out that there have reported cases of radioactive wastes/heavy metals but you want me to give you proof of Radioactive leak? I said a different statement but you wwant an anser to statement that you are framing on me. If you are so interested in finding the answer to YOUR QUESTION then google it yourself grad student otherwise you are talking cheap

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------



Im malu from Kerala....you knwo the same place where tamils state their dam will last 1000 yrs?

can u give links here for everyone? I want proof that radiation caused cancer in India.

I am also Russian from moscow.